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Posted: 6/10/2019 3:13:01 PM EDT
I've been a recreational shooter forever and 3 gun/uspsa/steel for a decade. All of my gear and training has been set up for speed and I never wore armor or a chest rig. Decided to change that and get serious about getting better. I got a chance to sneak off to the range with no work or kids so it was just doing some drills I've seen online. In a ~18 pound soft vest and full belt.

Help me get better! I'm looking for suggestions on what to practice, what to focus on, etc.

Gear
Belt was a DAA inner and outter
kydex double 1911 mag holder
kydex ar mag holder with 30 rounder
generic kydex 1911 holster
Mechanix tactical gloves
heavy ass soft armor full vest
timer
Guns:
gsg 1911 in 22lr
SA LBO in 45 with full power ammo

What I did:
get fully geared up
started with everything in 22 just to get used to it, as I've never shot in armor.
some draws from 10 yards to 8" steel. averaging about 1.6 seconds
then jumping jacks and drawing to steel. closer to 2.0 seconds
then wind sprints, about 10 yards out, 10 back, turn/draw/shoot. Can't draw during the run but I was getting between 6.5-8.5 depending how much I slid
then 10 yard lateral sprints to a 15 yard target.
more jumping jacks/draws
then tried to shoot with reloads strong side only. That blows. I can't reach my reloads with my right hand easily. averaged like 14 seconds
2 shots to steel/reload 2 shots to steel/ reload 2 shots on steel. Averaging 8 or so seconds there. pretty happy
Then did some stupid stuff with a 40 pound range table. Held it like I would be holding my kid and shot one handed. Then some curls and shot right after, then shoulder presses and shot right after.

what I learned

holy shit this is harder than i thought.
I need lighter gear. The vest was crazy and bulky on the side. I had to pop my hip out to make sure I didn't snag the sides on my draw
My belt isn't a cool tactical battle belt, but seemed to work
bending/squatting/lunges are hard when your AR mag stabs into your ribs/armor
It's tough to aim when your arms feel like spaghetti
I've not had a better work out my whole life
the best part of armor is taking it off. damn I felt super fast
Same with gloves, I much prefer shooting without them

what I want to work on
need to get a rifle sling so I can put transitions into the mix. can't shoot rifle rounds at this range so either need a 22 upper or full gun. TBD
Cardio. I've been working on it but can always be better
Holsters. I need a light bearing holster and mag holders that aren't so tight against my body. may help with the rib stabbing
Going to a 20 rounder on the belt.
I'll keep this armor as back up or for the wife, but will learn more about legit stuff and plates
need my own timer. this was borrowed but I need one. Can't improve if I don't know where I am.
Link Posted: 6/10/2019 3:27:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I've been a recreational shooter forever and 3 gun/uspsa/steel for a decade. All of my gear and training has been set up for speed and I never wore armor or a chest rig. Decided to change that and get serious about getting better. I got a chance to sneak off to the range with no work or kids so it was just doing some drills I've seen online. In a ~18 pound soft vest and full belt.

Help me get better! I'm looking for suggestions on what to practice, what to focus on, etc.

Gear
Belt was a DAA inner and outter
kydex double 1911 mag holder
kydex ar mag holder with 30 rounder
generic kydex 1911 holster
Mechanix tactical gloves
heavy ass soft armor full vest
timer
Guns:
gsg 1911 in 22lr
SA LBO in 45 with full power ammo

What I did:
get fully geared up
started with everything in 22 just to get used to it, as I've never shot in armor.
some draws from 10 yards to 8" steel. averaging about 1.6 seconds
then jumping jacks and drawing to steel. closer to 2.0 seconds
then wind sprints, about 10 yards out, 10 back, turn/draw/shoot. Can't draw during the run but I was getting between 6.5-8.5 depending how much I slid
then 10 yard lateral sprints to a 15 yard target.
more jumping jacks/draws
then tried to shoot with reloads strong side only. That blows. I can't reach my reloads with my right hand easily. averaged like 14 seconds
2 shots to steel/reload 2 shots to steel/ reload 2 shots on steel. Averaging 8 or so seconds there. pretty happy
Then did some stupid stuff with a 40 pound range table. Held it like I would be holding my kid and shot one handed. Then some curls and shot right after, then shoulder presses and shot right after.

what I learned

holy shit this is harder than i thought.
I need lighter gear. The vest was crazy and bulky on the side. I had to pop my hip out to make sure I didn't snag the sides on my draw
My belt isn't a cool tactical battle belt, but seemed to work
bending/squatting/lunges are hard when your AR mag stabs into your ribs/armor
It's tough to aim when your arms feel like spaghetti
I've not had a better work out my whole life
the best part of armor is taking it off. damn I felt super fast
Same with gloves, I much prefer shooting without them

what I want to work on
need to get a rifle sling so I can put transitions into the mix. can't shoot rifle rounds at this range so either need a 22 upper or full gun. TBD
Cardio. I've been working on it but can always be better
Holsters. I need a light bearing holster and mag holders that aren't so tight against my body. may help with the rib stabbing
Going to a 20 rounder on the belt.
I'll keep this armor as back up or for the wife, but will learn more about legit stuff and plates
need my own timer. this was borrowed but I need one. Can't improve if I don't know where I am.
View Quote
I live in gear.

I STRONGLY prefer drop holsters. I have long legs and short torso and whenever my pistol is on a belt I always have to do funny things to make sure it clears smoothly when I draw it.

If you aren't already shooting completely square get used to doing it. Even if you have to bring your support hand in closer a bit on the rifle. The added mobility will help work around a carrier.

Understand combat isn't about who can shoot the tightest groups the fastest, its about how can most efficiently engage the threat. Just like when learning reloads you learned to move smoother and do less movement, learning how to engage side to side is the same thing. Upper body is a turret. The goal should be full 90 degrees left and 90 degrees right without having to adjust your feet, no matter which foot is forward.

Don't worry about getting lighter/smaller gear yet. If you can learn to control heavier gear in training then when it comes time to get better gear you'll be that much more adjusted to it.

Start scanning after EVER engagement practice. Double tap, scan left and look over shoulder, right to over shoulder, CHECK BOLT.

feel free to PM with questions.

EDIT****
on the scanning advice, if you're doing a multiple threat drill you don't obviously scan until the threat has ceased being a threat. Basically run your box drill or whatever then scan.
Link Posted: 6/10/2019 3:30:38 PM EDT
[#2]
Try going prone with all that shit on and a helmet. Seriously though, key is always try to keep kit to the specific task at hand. I other words try to be as realistic as to weight vs. maneuverability.
Link Posted: 6/10/2019 6:26:18 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I live in gear. seems pretty uncomfortable

I STRONGLY prefer drop holsters. I have long legs and short torso and whenever my pistol is on a belt I always have to do funny things to make sure it clears smoothly when I draw it. I'm gong to look into that. I know I need a new holster anyway (I want light bearing) so I'll look towards a drop/offset. I prefer those in competition, this was just what I had for CCW.

If you aren't already shooting completely square get used to doing it. Even if you have to bring your support hand in closer a bit on the rifle. The added mobility will help work around a carrier.

Understand combat isn't about who can shoot the tightest groups the fastest, its about how can most efficiently engage the threat. Just like when learning reloads you learned to move smoother and do less movement, learning how to engage side to side is the same thing. Upper body is a turret. The goal should be full 90 degrees left and 90 degrees right without having to adjust your feet, no matter which foot is forward. What's a good way to practice/train for that? I'm not sure I'm that limber yet but it sounds like a good goal.

Don't worry about getting lighter/smaller gear yet. If you can learn to control heavier gear in training then when it comes time to get better gear you'll be that much more adjusted to it. That's what I'm thinking. beat myself and this stuff up to see what it is I actually like and need

Start scanning after EVER engagement practice. Double tap, scan left and look over shoulder, right to over shoulder, CHECK BOLT. I did start doing that as I noticed I was getting target focused. What do you suggest to do alone? I know just glancing over the shoulder isn't helpful, you actually have to observe and react. I've heard of doing it with a partner behind you with colored cards or something but don't have that option.

feel free to PM with questions. incoming

EDIT****
on the scanning advice, if you're doing a multiple threat drill you don't obviously scan until the threat has ceased being a threat. Basically run your box drill or whatever then scan.
View Quote
@hoody2shoez thanks! I'm replying above in bold
Link Posted: 6/10/2019 6:30:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Try going prone with all that shit on and a helmet. Seriously though, key is always try to keep kit to the specific task at hand. I other words try to be as realistic as to weight vs. maneuverability.
View Quote
@alacop I will try that. I want a helmet eventually as I'll be adding NV of some sort.

I'm trying to set up for a general grab-and-go kit. Good for most things, obvious not ideal for everything.
Link Posted: 6/11/2019 12:16:01 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
@hoody2shoez thanks! I'm replying above in bold
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

I live in gear. seems pretty uncomfortable

I STRONGLY prefer drop holsters. I have long legs and short torso and whenever my pistol is on a belt I always have to do funny things to make sure it clears smoothly when I draw it. I'm gong to look into that. I know I need a new holster anyway (I want light bearing) so I'll look towards a drop/offset. I prefer those in competition, this was just what I had for CCW.

If you aren't already shooting completely square get used to doing it. Even if you have to bring your support hand in closer a bit on the rifle. The added mobility will help work around a carrier.

Understand combat isn't about who can shoot the tightest groups the fastest, its about how can most efficiently engage the threat. Just like when learning reloads you learned to move smoother and do less movement, learning how to engage side to side is the same thing. Upper body is a turret. The goal should be full 90 degrees left and 90 degrees right without having to adjust your feet, no matter which foot is forward. What's a good way to practice/train for that? I'm not sure I'm that limber yet but it sounds like a good goal.

Don't worry about getting lighter/smaller gear yet. If you can learn to control heavier gear in training then when it comes time to get better gear you'll be that much more adjusted to it. That's what I'm thinking. beat myself and this stuff up to see what it is I actually like and need

Start scanning after EVER engagement practice. Double tap, scan left and look over shoulder, right to over shoulder, CHECK BOLT. I did start doing that as I noticed I was getting target focused. What do you suggest to do alone? I know just glancing over the shoulder isn't helpful, you actually have to observe and react. I've heard of doing it with a partner behind you with colored cards or something but don't have that option.

feel free to PM with questions. incoming

EDIT****
on the scanning advice, if you're doing a multiple threat drill you don't obviously scan until the threat has ceased being a threat. Basically run your box drill or whatever then scan.
@hoody2shoez thanks! I'm replying above in bold
I just sent you like 3 messages cuz of the limit on words

anyway didn't see that you don't have anybody to help

learning to scan on your own on the range is still a necessity because it builds habits. Practice during your everyday life to get the pay attention thing. While walking around at work, on your own, whenever, every so often scan left of right and try to pick something out behind you. Don't focus on it, but notice like, like the color of somebody's shirt or maybe a new detail you didn't notice in the hall at work. You don't need to practice both sides at the same time. Scan left once. Next time scan right. On the range try to pick up little details behind you, like maybe a flower or plant. maybe a dead tree. You only have a split second. At home, do it with the TV. Put an action movie on and Turn away from the TV. Practice your scanning drills (without a weapon if you are uncomfortable doing it with one) and every once in awhile when you see the badguy behind you turn around and 'engage' then proceed to scan and check bolt before resetting.
Link Posted: 6/20/2019 5:00:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 6/20/2019 7:14:21 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Try some lighter plates. "18 pounds" sounds like steel which sucks.

About 6 or so years ago I went with lighter plates and never looked back. Wear DKX M7 lightweight plates now and can train all day and not remember they are there. Recently at a med class we had to drag "wounded" guys on a sked and a stretcher about a mile total up and down hills.  My old azz made it dragging dudes while some of the young bucks were falling out. The weight really matters.

Good on ya for getting out there and figuring this stuff out- most people don't but have a closest full of shiny new gear that they love to post IG pics of!
View Quote
@Lowdown3 it's an IOTV or something ballistic vest. soft armor. freaking sucks but i'd rather learn that now than when I need to, ya know?

I really want a light PD with light plates but seems like this is an area you pay for weight savings. I don't know anyone around here to try stuff really either
Link Posted: 6/20/2019 8:59:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 6/21/2019 9:25:41 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I used to use that sort of vest also but ended up going to just a plate carrier with 10x12 plates and a chest rig.

You definitely pay for the weight savings. The steel is cheaper but you could end up with spall issues.

There is always the balance of mobility vs. armor protection. The Interceptor type vests do offer some IIA or IIIa pistol/fragment protection that just a plate carrier won't offer.
View Quote
@Lowdown3 and that's the thing, I bought the vest I have like 6 years ago just because I thought it was cool and my buddy that had it needed money. But now even as I know it's not what I want at the moment, it's not something I think I'm even allowed to sell so probably not worth the what, $150 I'd get? May as well save up and buy new, keep this as a spare or for the wife.

I'm spending some time learning, reading, and talking to people that have gone through this before. That way I can buy once cry once when something goes on super sale or I can snag a deal through the EE.

Right now I need a belt set up, mine is too competition oriented. Then I think I'm gonna try and get some SiOnyx night vision for christmas. That frees up some plate money
Link Posted: 6/21/2019 9:49:10 AM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 9/17/2019 10:50:13 AM EDT
[#11]
I’m a civilian and have no real need for gear, but have some for classes.  Over the years I came to realize I’m not a Navy Seal and not in Navy Seal condition.  Therefore I can’t use a full set of gear.

Less is more.

I now have a simple “battle belt” set up that holds up to 8 AR mags (two single shingles and two triple pouches), a spare handgun mag, a holster, place for a knife, utility pouch (water bottle or gloves or ear pro), and a trauma kit.  The belt has simple suspenders that help with some weight distribution when running.

I sold the rest of my “high speed low drag” stuff because I’m low speed high drag.
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