User Panel
Posted: 11/3/2021 5:34:25 PM EDT
My opinion is that ranges limiting people's ability to actually train will get people killed in real world situations. I've heard a lot of other people talk about the range Nazis and the "no rapid fire" rules.
I used to live in California, the only range was about an hour away and all you could do there was slow fire off a bench rest. I had never shot from any position but bench rest before I moved and bought my own 80 acre range. I remember going there with my first AR and I accidently bumped a double tap while bench rest shooting and I immediately had a sense that somebody was standing next to me, I turned my head the fucking creepy looking range Nazi is literally hovering over me. Can anybody actually articulate why "rapid fire" is prohibited on so many ranges? Is it actually a safety concern, or is it just that they worry neighbors would complain about "machine gun fire"? |
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[Last Edit: BWood]
[#1]
Look at the walls and ceilings
I trust no one at a range….seen too many idiots |
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[#2]
Originally Posted By BWood: Look at the walls and ceilings I trust no one at a range….seen too many idiots View Quote Well the place I was shooting was just a big mountainside. Outdoor range. I think if they see somebody who can't control the gun they can tell them to stop, but instead they pick on a person like Jerry miculek, or something, who can knock down plates or pins super fast while keeping all bullets on target. |
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[#3]
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[Last Edit: Grendelsbane]
[#4]
Originally Posted By BWood: Look at the walls and ceilings I trust no one at a range….seen too many idiots View Quote Essentially this. I have patronized a number ranges where issues with encroachment cause serious sound or bullet escape problems. Plus, clubs and range owners get tired of patching roofs and other equipment. It doesn’t take to many dumbasses acting out before everybody pays the price. |
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Kay : A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it.
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[#5]
I have seen peeps bounce rounds everywhere, and some angles are amazing. Ceiling panels and lighting falling to the floor, target drive systems destroyed, etc.
Cross fire on others targets is also common. |
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Let me put my meat on your grill.
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[#6]
Hey OP, were you talking about the old Azusa Canyon range by chance?
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[#7]
Originally Posted By BWood: Look at the walls and ceilings I trust no one at a range….seen too many idiots View Quote Bingo. I can't tell you how many times I've been flagged, or had idiots start shooting as I was downrange. Those, however, were mostly DNR ranges that were self-policed. People wonder why I wore body armor sometimes. Or kept my CCW (or rifle) when I went downrange. |
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[#8]
No idea, I shoot at home.
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Find around and fuck out.
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[#9]
Look at the ceiling. There’s your answer. Of course it’s bullshit and few ruin it for the many.
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[#10]
Originally Posted By wildearp: I have seen peeps bounce rounds everywhere, and some angles are amazing. Ceiling panels and lighting falling to the floor, target drive systems destroyed, etc. Cross fire on others targets is also common. View Quote I was shooting at a 100yd range next to a couple other guys. I put a fresh shootnsee out during cease fire. 12” round black circle. The guy next to me is shooting a scoped rifle. He also put up a new target. A large blue human silhouette. I sit down at my bench, make an adjustment on my lpvo, look through the glass, and there’s 3 holes in my little black shootnsee. The guy next to me was blasting away. I leaned over and said hey man, I think you’re shooting my target. He was shocked and couldn’t figure out how he could have made that mistake He was a really nice guy and I didn’t make a fuss. We had been shooting next to each other for a little while and he walked to his truck and got some cool looking shootnsee zombie targets and insisted on giving them to my 2 boys who were shooting with me and he gave each of them a spent 45-70 cartridge case for their collection. |
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[#11]
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The Second Amendment: Preserving our right to petition the government - with malice.
"I guess it comes down to a simple choice, really. Get busy livin' or get busy dyin'." Virginia Is For Loners (TM) |
[#12]
I’ve been yelled at for rapid fire at a DNR range before. I’ve seen enough asshats hit everything but their target in my days at public ranges. A good one was some guys I worked with shooting a glock 18 at an indoor range. Brrrrrrppppp straight up the ceiling.
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[#13]
Originally Posted By AASG: My opinion is that ranges limiting people's ability to actually train will get people killed in real world situations. I've heard a lot of other people talk about the range Nazis and the "no rapid fire" rules. I used to live in California, the only range was about an hour away and all you could do there was slow fire off a bench rest. I had never shot from any position but bench rest before I moved and bought my own 80 acre range. I remember going there with my first AR and I accidently bumped a double tap while bench rest shooting and I immediately had a sense that somebody was standing next to me, I turned my head the fucking creepy looking range Nazi is literally hovering over me. Can anybody actually articulate why "rapid fire" is prohibited on so many ranges? Is it actually a safety concern, or is it just that they worry neighbors would complain about "machine gun fire"? View Quote The answer is because most people suck at shooting even slow fire. This leads to two issues: safety due to bullets leaving the range and damage to the range infrastructure. Go to an indoor range and take a look at the walls snd ceilings - and watch some of the shooters missing full size silhouette targets as close as 7 yards. |
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[#14]
Originally Posted By HCM3156: The answer is because most people suck at shooting even slow fire. This leads to two issues: safety due to bullets leaving the range and damage to the range infrastructure. Go to an indoor range and take a look at the walls snd ceilings - and watch some of the shooters missing full size silhouette targets as close as 7 yards. View Quote The last gun rag I read I think they were using a 3 yard target to show how accurate a pistol was. Maybe it's just me, but that's point in that general direction and hit it kind of accuracy. |
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QC Doktor...soldier, scholar, funnyman, raconteur
AL, USA
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[#15]
Originally Posted By AASG: My opinion is that ranges limiting people's ability to actually train will get people killed in real world situations. I've heard a lot of other people talk about the range Nazis and the "no rapid fire" rules. I used to live in California, the only range was about an hour away and all you could do there was slow fire off a bench rest. I had never shot from any position but bench rest before I moved and bought my own 80 acre range. I remember going there with my first AR and I accidently bumped a double tap while bench rest shooting and I immediately had a sense that somebody was standing next to me, I turned my head the fucking creepy looking range Nazi is literally hovering over me. Can anybody actually articulate why "rapid fire" is prohibited on so many ranges? Is it actually a safety concern, or is it just that they worry neighbors would complain about "machine gun fire"? View Quote Attached File |
"Audemus jura nostra defendere"
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[#16]
envy
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But then again, I just need to get my post count up.
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[#17]
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[#18]
Originally Posted By AASG: My opinion is that ranges limiting people's ability to actually train will get people killed in real world situations. I've heard a lot of other people talk about the range Nazis and the "no rapid fire" rules. I used to live in California, the only range was about an hour away and all you could do there was slow fire off a bench rest. I had never shot from any position but bench rest before I moved and bought my own 80 acre range. I remember going there with my first AR and I accidently bumped a double tap while bench rest shooting and I immediately had a sense that somebody was standing next to me, I turned my head the fucking creepy looking range Nazi is literally hovering over me. Can anybody actually articulate why "rapid fire" is prohibited on so many ranges? Is it actually a safety concern, or is it just that they worry neighbors would complain about "machine gun fire"? View Quote I used to shoot at a great little place that was only 25 mins out of my way. The targets went out to 1,000 yards. It was in the middle of nowhere. We can’t shoot there anymore because some jackwads shot someone’s house. Once with a 338 Lapua. I don’t recall the other caliber. While this was not rapid fire, if the rounds leave the range, the range will be closed in short order and lawsuits will be filed. Pretty easy to understand, if you are the range owner who has many thousands or millions invested. You did the best thing, buy your own land and that way if/when rounds leave the range - you can pay the lawyers and maybe get 3 hots and a cot. |
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10/22/14 I stand with Canada
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[#19]
Originally Posted By azmp5: I remember a few years back when the range I go to change get out their roof. Within a week there were a few holes in it already View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By azmp5: Originally Posted By BWood: Look at the walls and ceilings I remember a few years back when the range I go to change get out their roof. Within a week there were a few holes in it already My last SO I worked at was so proud of their “cops only” indoor range. It was about 1-2 years old when I went to qualify. The training sergeant knew me from my last agency. He was sure to tell me about how only qualified folks shot at the range. The walls, floor and roof had more holes in them than Biden’s son has had crack hits. |
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10/22/14 I stand with Canada
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[Last Edit: Amish_Bill]
[#20]
Originally Posted By Lexington: Exactly. A lot of the yay-hoos can't control rapid fire. View Quote A lot of the yay-hoos can't control SLOW fire. I can't count the number of 5 yard targets I've seen with holes from shoulder to shoulder and neck to groin. Lets not even talk about all the holes completely outside the silhouette from practically spitting distances... I still remember the face on the guy who wanted to shut me down for 'shooting too quickly' at a local range, but stopped when he saw the lack of holes outside the 7 ring. It was almost like a semi-competent shooter was a rarity there. |
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Instructor: Utah CCW
Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman |
[#21]
Our indoor range def has a ton of holes in the ceiling.
we allow "rapid fire" but machine guns and bump stocks are only allowed at approved shoots. we still get an email once a week saying "hey guys, just a reminder machine guns are only permitted during approved times!" |
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[#22]
My ranges rule is reasonable. No method of firing which could be mistaken for full auto. That still allows triple taps and rapid fire drills.
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Those who beat swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who don't. --Benjamin Franklin.
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[#23]
Was an rso at a public indoor range for a while. Most people that came in could barely hit the target without some instruction doing slow fire, much less rapid. We regularly had holes in the ceiling that needed patched.
I like the way a range local to me does it. They allow it, but watch when you do and as long as you're hitting your target while doing so, they let you have at it. Once you start slinging lead elsewhere, you're getting told to slow it down. Its a case by case basis. |
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[#24]
Originally Posted By BWood: Look at the walls and ceilings I trust no one at a range….seen too many idiots View Quote The range where I used to shoot had a lot of holes in the partitions too, I always asked for the bay at the extreme left end. I stopped going there when the shooter next to me ducked under the partition and walked down range to retrieve his target which had fallen off the hanger. The range was still hot and folks were actively shooting… Too little supervision was worse than too much supervision in that particular instance. |
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[#25]
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“When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.” Thomas Jefferson
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[#26]
Originally Posted By Lexington:
Exactly. A lot of the yay-hoos can't control rapid fire. View Quote |
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“When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.” Thomas Jefferson
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[#27]
Because even when trying to shoot slowly idiots will accidentally bump double taps
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[Last Edit: TxRabbitBane]
[#28]
Watch your fellow shooters at the range sometime and the answer will become clear.
Those yahoos trying to “train” represent far more danger than you having to “train” elsewhere. |
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Not fly enough to be halal....
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[#29]
There are people out there with room temperature IQs. These are the people who ruin it for everyone else.
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"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
I have an 07/02 FFL/SOT, so don’t freak out on me about things that you think are illegal. |
[#30]
LOL
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I pray that this post is not a waste of site resources.
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[#31]
Why no "rapid fire".... Because those ranges that don't allow realistic rates of fire don't want skilled shooters or my business.
They are pretty much a waste of time for all but my LTC quals and beginner students. |
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[#32]
Originally Posted By JustinOK34: Hey OP, were you talking about the old Azusa Canyon range by chance? View Quote No. I think it was called the San Luis Obispo Sportsmans Association. Other stupid shit there: I wanted to zero in my slug gun for deer season. Was told "NO SHOTGUNS". Was told you have to shoot it over there on the trap range. I explained that its basically a rifle when I'm using slugs. He didnt care. I asked if he wanted me to go shoot slug in the air at the trap range, all I got was a dumb look. |
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[#33]
Originally Posted By BornToLooze: The last gun rag I read I think they were using a 3 yard target to show how accurate a pistol was. Maybe it's just me, but that's point in that general direction and hit it kind of accuracy. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By BornToLooze: Originally Posted By HCM3156: The answer is because most people suck at shooting even slow fire. This leads to two issues: safety due to bullets leaving the range and damage to the range infrastructure. Go to an indoor range and take a look at the walls snd ceilings - and watch some of the shooters missing full size silhouette targets as close as 7 yards. The last gun rag I read I think they were using a 3 yard target to show how accurate a pistol was. Maybe it's just me, but that's point in that general direction and hit it kind of accuracy. |
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Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt. That's the first thing they teach you.
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[#34]
I'm going to go out on a limb and risk some push back but there are allot of gun owners who view formal training with a jaundiced eye. The primary argument against mandated training in order to obtain a carry permit is the fear of turning a right into a privilege. And it certainly is a slippery slope.
But what many don't seem to recognize is the fact that in general our society is evolving away from gun ownership (in spite of the recent spike in new gun owners in the past 18 months). What that means is, as a nation, firearms safety isn't being taught parent-to-child to the same extent it was even 30 years ago. Many newly minted LEO's have never touched a firearm before they entered the academy (likewise those enlisting in the armed forces). And while many of the facilities with rules that prohibit rapid fire have been in place much longer, it nevertheless exposes how unsafe some gun owners are with regard to safe weapon handling and in particular, many of whom are also ignorant of the four generally accepted safety rules and tends to reinforce those stringent rules in the eyes of club officials. Ideally, people would, of their own volition, seek proper training if even on a rudimentary scale. OTOH, some gun clubs such as the one I used to frequent, are now trying to cash in on the flow of training dollars. By that I mean charging exorbitant range fees tacked onto tuition. Many such clubs who are willing to host courses watch some of the more well-known trainers walk away with several thousand dollars per course while the club only gets a modest $10/day range fee. While I absolutely see their point, IMO part of what a gun club should be about (at a minimum) is teaching people basic safety and marksmanship and not viewing the club facilities as a potential cash cow given most clubs are organized as 501(c)4's. The training outfit I used to be associated with was a 501(c)3 and did give back to the host club (we were all unpaid volunteers). We used our funds to build them a really nice 50yd range and the following year we built a pavilion in appreciation for granting us the use of their club facilities for training classes. The only stipulation was that we become members so that our classes would fall under the umbrella of their insurance policy. That aside, I don't see a simple solution to "no rapid fire" policies. |
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Best Regards,
TonyF Training Forum Moderator "... there's trained and untrained" (Denzel Washington -- Man on Fire) |
[#35]
Somebody may have trained with VODA. No ceiling is safe when he is on the range.
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[#36]
Because fudds and assholes, and asshole fudds.
There's a range in Kenmore that's famous for their single load rule. First time I went up there, the RSO yelled out the window of his little booth as I was crossing the parking lot with my rifle case: - What you shooting? - FAL - Load one round at a time only! - Why? - Because you never know when that thing will go full auto! - Uh, no sir, I know exactly when this thing will go full auto, and that's never - Well, one round at a time is the range rule! All this shouted through a tiny window from 25 yards. That also happened to be the last time I went up there. |
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I know I'll never go home.
So set fire to your ships, and past regrets, and be free. |
Executive Director, Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
NC, USA
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[#37]
My range doesn't allow it and there are still holes in the canopies. I can only imagine what it would look like if they allowed rapid fire.
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Get Wayne LaPierre out of the NRA. Don't give them another cent until he's gone.
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[#38]
Because all ranges are just one round away from being closed. And if you are a public range and allow rapid fire the gang bangers and wanna-be's will show up doing side hold mag dumps sending rounds everywhere but into the correct berm.
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[#39]
It's not BS. Go buy some property, build a range, open it to the public... come back and let us know how it goes.
Bottom line, people do stupid shit, with or w/o rules. I've actually watched people rapid fire with their eyes closed... I've watched people attempt rapid fire and they end up spraying the lanes to their left and right as well as over the horizon and a few feet from their own feet. When I give classes on my own range, the crap I have to cover with folks before the first round is fired is ridiculous... but... it's because someone did some stupid shit in the past. My range is not open to the public, just my classes or the classes I host. After class, I use to let people recreationally shoot while the steaks cooked... no more, because like I said, people do stupid shit. |
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Signal-0 Productions Firearms Training check it out at Signal-0.com
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[#40]
Because most people are morons, that's why. All it takes is one retard to arc a round into the side of a house a mile away and the club is done. There are a lot of variables too with range setup. The range I go to is on flat ground with dirt mounds at various intervals. There's just not a lot of containment for errant rounds from some dink mag dumping his AK. So I kinda understand
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“I was always willing to be reasonable until I had to be unreasonable”
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[#41]
Two main reasons: Liability & stupid people. You can't really blame them either, most dudes I've seen "training" at public ranges just blast wildly downrange and aren't doing anything worthwhile anyway.
It's usually not the skilled 3 gun or match shooter they have problems with, it's Tactical Timmy who watched too many T-Rex arms videos. Plus it's just really obnoxious for everyone near them, especially if the rifle has a brake or a short barrel. If you have to share a range, it's best to be courteous. |
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[#42]
Originally Posted By Sajer: I’ve been yelled at for rapid fire at a DNR range before. I’ve seen enough asshats hit everything but their target in my days at public ranges. A good one was some guys I worked with shooting a glock 18 at an indoor range. Brrrrrrppppp straight up the ceiling. View Quote Aren’t there only two of those in the country? |
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"And then I woke up."
"You can make O6 or keep your integrity.” -Sylvan |
[#43]
My LGS/Range allows rapid fire but if you get carried away like a douche, you will be asked to leave in a persuasive manner. This same LGS/Range also allows full auto on certain days. You can even rent full autos.
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Norcal Call sign: Sly
One of the original DEPLORABLES ChiCom Bioweapon survivor and proudly Unvaxxed! “Everything woke turns to shit!” DJT |
[#44]
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When's the last time you ate a salad?
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[#45]
"Conservative" gun people: "you can't make me wear a mask or get a shot or distance myself from others! Even if they work, it's not MY responsibility to keep other people safe! Any restriction on what I want to do is tyranny!"
Also "conservative" gun people: "OMG of course you can't shoot rapid fire at a gun range! Are you mental? Have you seen the damage to the roofs of the pavilions? You have to do what we tell you to do because we know what's best - you need to make sure others are safe!" At the end of the day, most people who call themselves conservatives get off by forcing others to do/not do something, just like progressives. "Freedom is scary" only applies when OTHER people are scared. |
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[#46]
My club brought up some "reasonable restrictions on rate of fire and mag capacity" at our last meeting. They want to ban "rapid fire" but arent sure how to define it. Apparently neighbors to the club complained (club/range has been there since the 1930s). I told them if they wanted to be democrats and institute gun control at a gun club, Ill take my money and leave.
Shoot at the rate of fire you can control while getting shots accurately on target. |
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"Life is Hard, its Harder if You're Stupid" - John Wayne
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[#47]
Originally Posted By ziarifleman: Aren’t there only two of those in the country? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By ziarifleman: Originally Posted By Sajer: I’ve been yelled at for rapid fire at a DNR range before. I’ve seen enough asshats hit everything but their target in my days at public ranges. A good one was some guys I worked with shooting a glock 18 at an indoor range. Brrrrrrppppp straight up the ceiling. Aren’t there only two of those in the country? Two DNR ranges? Two indoor ranges? Two G18s? I'm sure there are more than just two of any of those. Heck, I've shot (what I believe) to be a G18 from the guy I bought my suppressors from. He has a fun collection. That was 15+ years ago but I do believe it was a true G18. Now if it was transferrable or not, I don't remember. |
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[#48]
For outdoor ranges, rounds have to go into the backstop. Rapid firing could launch rounds over the backstop or into the ground before it causing ricochet hazards. Or hitting other shooters target frames. Or shooting the target stand pipes in the ground. Etc.
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