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Posted: 8/1/2019 2:07:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MONGO45:
I own a Rats and I won’t throw it away but once I took a course and learned more I went out and bought 8-9 Cat tourniquets I purchase at least one trainer for any CoTCCC approved tourniquets as well as one of the more common junkers just so people can actually get hands on with them but the CAT is what I use in class. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 1/3/2020 1:05:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: tweiss3]
[#2]
So my 4-year old has recently been diagnosed with a bleeding disorder. I've been telling myself for the past few years I need to get a real bleeding kit, but since his risk for bleeding has gone through the roof, I'm not putting it off any longer.
He is small for his age. I know both the CAT and SOFTT-W are approved, but where are the peer reviewed studies on pediatric patients? I'm ready to buy today for whichever one is better. I'm getting on to add to my EDC, and a kit for his bag (we now have a bag for all his EDC medical supplies). Thanks, EDIT: I know its an old thread, but not too old. Didn't think this needed a separate thread. |
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Posted: 1/3/2020 2:38:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: The_Beer_Slayer]
[#3]
https://www.jems.com/2018/11/01/pediatric-extremity-hemorrhage-and-tourniquet-use/
The pressure applied with a tourniquet need only exceed the patient’s systolic blood pressure. There is no current data that suggests that the application of direct pressure, a commercial tourniquet, or an improvised tourniquet may fail to control pediatric extremity hemorrhage. Something as simple—and time tested—as a cravat fashioned into a girth hitch, placed around a child’s extremity, can and will suffice. If you have a non-pediatric commercial tourniquet available for use, and are concerned about the patient’s limb circumference, consider placement of a rolled gauze or pad underneath the constricting band prior to securing the tourniquet—this essentially increases the extremity’s circumference. |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 1/3/2020 4:11:23 PM EDT
[#4]
Here is a link to a peer reviewed article.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30901457 |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 1/3/2020 7:15:47 PM EDT
[#5]
Thank's for the quick reply's.
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USA
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Posted: 6/28/2020 3:33:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ThickkSarge]
[#6]
The RATS is complete trash. Stick with the CATs.
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CO, USA
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Posted: 8/22/2020 1:32:11 AM EDT
[#7]
RATs have a place. A CAT should always be used first.
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Posted: 9/30/2020 4:37:24 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By battlemidget: RATs have a place. A CAT should always be used first. They do, the trash can. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 10/4/2020 12:46:05 PM EDT
[#9]
CATS are the goto, and RATs have a place in the kit.
Generally speaking, never loosen a tourniquet in the field. That being said, you could have to adjust a tourniquet. Without going down a rabbit hole, most of the reasons why include 'further injury' and we'll just leave it there; that very rarely you have to adjust a tourniquet. RATs are good in that role, but again you ought never loosen a TQ in the field. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 10/4/2020 12:56:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tweiss3: So my 4-year old has recently been diagnosed with a bleeding disorder. I've been telling myself for the past few years I need to get a real bleeding kit, but since his risk for bleeding has gone through the roof, I'm not putting it off any longer. He is small for his age. I know both the CAT and SOFTT-W are approved, but where are the peer reviewed studies on pediatric patients? I'm ready to buy today for whichever one is better. I'm getting on to add to my EDC, and a kit for his bag (we now have a bag for all his EDC medical supplies). Thanks, EDIT: I know its an old thread, but not too old. Didn't think this needed a separate thread. I was going to suggest a SWATT, looks like it was suggested in that medical article. Additionally, SWATTs are also good as an 'outer wrap' on a large wound, they're generally useful. Keep in mind that the problems your kid is likely to experience (playground falls, skinned knees), you just need to control the bleeding, not occlude pulse to the limb. Keep a few tools in the toolbox. Simple gauze and compression (ace) bandage is cheap by the dozen on amazon, make little 'wound kits' in ziploc bags and put them everywhere. Get some shaving pens and antibiotic pens, teach the kid to care for his cuts, change bandages twice a day and don't wear dirty bandages to bed. Also, some OTC meds are blood thinners, know your meds. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 12/30/2020 4:50:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Nah, Just carry two TQs, or be adept at pressure dressings. A RATS is not multipurpose, it barely serves a purpose. A compression bandage/trauma dressing is.
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Posted: 3/8/2021 6:58:53 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By louisianarebel: The TCCC class I went to put it this way. If you will actually carry the RATS since it is more compact, its better than the CAT you leave in the parking lot or house because its inconvenient to carry. And thats why people carry 22 berrettas in their back pocket. Because they're lazy |
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Posted: 11/18/2021 2:16:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By branflake12: I took a bleeding control class and my stepfather was a 23 year EMT. RATS TQ's are much harder to use correctly and increase the risk of nerve damage. The class I took demonstrated how, after I asked exactly this question and provided the RATS i brought with me to ask this question. If your wrap isnt 100% evenly tight on all the loops around, one is tightest and the RATS is narrow enough to cause tissue and nerve damage. Others may refute me with reasons and I wont take it personally, but hearing it from more than one trusted source, all of my TQs in all kits are now CATs. They are bigger and tend to get frayed over time, but thats what I did. Edit: ONLY buy north american rescue brand AND from amazon directly, not any 3rd party sellers. Turns out, counterfeit NAR brand TQs actually exist in the market, and at least one EMT at the class had seen the buckle break when used. This is absolutely true! I have solid contacts with NAR Staff and when I told them I grabbed a CAT of their's off Amazon - they told me they DO NOT have a storefront there and ONLY sell from their own website! Despite their products looking authentic on Amazon, they are not! Good observations on the RAT v CAT. As one with extensive nerve damage I can honestly admit that it blows, but I'd rather lose arm feeling than an arm or life. My 4 cents |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 11/20/2021 2:05:16 AM EDT
[#14]
If I had a choice the cats
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Posted: 11/20/2021 9:59:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GunnyFitz]
[#15]
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Posted: 11/20/2021 10:09:36 AM EDT
[#16]
The rats has a place in my kit. The short of it is that it is easier to use on dogs since their limbs taper.
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Posted: 11/25/2021 2:24:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GunnyFitz: This is absolutely true! I have solid contacts with NAR Staff and when I told them I grabbed a CAT of their's off Amazon - they told me they DO NOT have a storefront there and ONLY sell from their own website! Despite their products looking authentic on Amazon, they are not! Good observations on the RAT v CAT. As one with extensive nerve damage I can honestly admit that it blows, but I'd rather lose arm feeling than an arm or life. My 4 cents Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GunnyFitz: Originally Posted By branflake12: I took a bleeding control class and my stepfather was a 23 year EMT. RATS TQ's are much harder to use correctly and increase the risk of nerve damage. The class I took demonstrated how, after I asked exactly this question and provided the RATS i brought with me to ask this question. If your wrap isnt 100% evenly tight on all the loops around, one is tightest and the RATS is narrow enough to cause tissue and nerve damage. Others may refute me with reasons and I wont take it personally, but hearing it from more than one trusted source, all of my TQs in all kits are now CATs. They are bigger and tend to get frayed over time, but thats what I did. Edit: ONLY buy north american rescue brand AND from amazon directly, not any 3rd party sellers. Turns out, counterfeit NAR brand TQs actually exist in the market, and at least one EMT at the class had seen the buckle break when used. This is absolutely true! I have solid contacts with NAR Staff and when I told them I grabbed a CAT of their's off Amazon - they told me they DO NOT have a storefront there and ONLY sell from their own website! Despite their products looking authentic on Amazon, they are not! Good observations on the RAT v CAT. As one with extensive nerve damage I can honestly admit that it blows, but I'd rather lose arm feeling than an arm or life. My 4 cents I've received counterfit CATs directly from Amazon, not from a 3rd-party seller. Just buy them direct from NAR. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 2:43:42 PM EDT
[#18]
RATS literally has no place in a med kit.
Sincerely, a TCCC and ATLS instructor |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 2:47:30 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryThe second one is a junctional tourniquet used to place pressure on the arteries in the hips where a TQ can't be placed. Junctionals are pretty bulky and dedicated medical equipment. There are always other devices to do more but you start moving into the realm of professional medical provider. The reasons TQs are so awesome is their high level of pro to con. They're light, small, inexpensive, easy to carry, easy to use, very versatile, and provide high value for that. When you start moving into higher level equipment like Junctional TQs that require more training you're moving out of the practicality to benefit range. Dedicated medical bags with stuff that requires low advanced training. I keep a medical bag in my car but it's filled entirely with CAT TQs, guaze, SAM splints, tape, and narcan. All stuff that I've trained in and used. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 3:28:43 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TCBA_Joe: The second one is a junctional tourniquet used to place pressure on the arteries in the hips where a TQ can't be placed. Junctionals are pretty bulky and dedicated medical equipment. There are always other devices to do more but you start moving into the realm of professional medical provider. The reasons TQs are so awesome is their high level of pro to con. They're light, small, inexpensive, easy to carry, easy to use, very versatile, and provide high value for that. When you start moving into higher level equipment like Junctional TQs that require more training you're moving out of the practicality to benefit range. Dedicated medical bags with stuff that requires low advanced training. I keep a medical bag in my car but it's filled entirely with CAT TQs, guaze, SAM splints, tape, and narcan. All stuff that I've trained in and used. Myself also...full of IV bags and full array of lines... Well stated on everything else which I concur w 110% Happy Thanksgiving to you all..... |
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