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Posted: 8/9/2020 12:02:02 AM EDT
I have a student that consistently shoots high, 12 to 18" at 25 yards with irons and I can't figure it out. Group sizes are a little spread out at about 10". I tried everything I can think of ...grip, position, dummy round drills, 22lr, 1911 etc. Everything looks good on the high speed cam. I had her shoot supported and she was dead center. I had her use a red dot and she was centered with a 5" shot group.
I figure it has something to do with the sights. Any suggestions and drills to try? |
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Posted: 8/9/2020 12:33:53 AM EDT
[#1]
How does she shoot at 21 or 50 feet?
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/9/2020 12:54:57 AM EDT
[#2]
Have you shot her gun? Same results? If the sights aren't off then it sounds like front sight is way above rear notch. What kind of pistol is she doing this with?
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IL, USA
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Posted: 8/9/2020 1:07:07 AM EDT
[#3]
Ask her where she it aiming her sights at? Something is changing with the iron sights?
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Posted: 8/9/2020 7:37:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ZippZ]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sigman68: How does she shoot at 21 or 50 feet? Not sure. The range we're currently using is 25 and 50 yards only. We shot at 45 feet a couple weeks ago and she didn't have a good group so couldn't tell, a bit high generally I think.. She's improved a lot since then on precision shooting. |
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Posted: 8/9/2020 7:41:48 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 10mmillie: Have you shot her gun? Same results? If the sights aren't off then it sounds like front sight is way above rear notch. What kind of pistol is she doing this with? I shot her gun and it shoots center. Shes been aiming low on her gun to hit center. Same when she shoots my guns. Her gun is a M&P. She's also shot a Glock, P320, 1911, buckmark, SW586. |
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Posted: 8/9/2020 7:45:04 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 82ABN1: Ask her where she it aiming her sights at? Something is changing with the iron sights? She's aiming center hold. If she aims 12 to 18" down she hits center. When I look behind her shoulder and try to line up the gun, it appears the muzzle is elevated but it's hard to tell. I've gone through sight alignment/picture with her and she appears to know it. |
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Posted: 8/9/2020 7:51:30 AM EDT
[#7]
She could be looking completely over the rear sight and only putting front on target, used to run into the same issue with new 4H shooters. Draw the sight picture she should be seeing out on paper for her to compare and see how she does .
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Posted: 8/9/2020 8:06:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ZippZ]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CRAZYDENNY: She could be looking completely over the rear sight and only putting front on target, used to run into the same issue with new 4H shooters. Draw the sight picture she should be seeing out on paper for her to compare and see how she does . Looking over is my guess. Tho she shoots center when shooting supported with a lowered shooting position. She's shooting high in the iscociles two handed position. |
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Posted: 8/11/2020 12:47:53 AM EDT
[#9]
I would see where she is at 21 feet before shooting at 25 yards.
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Posted: 8/13/2020 11:59:25 AM EDT
[#10]
Not sure about a solution here, but have a thought, find a handgun with a laser. Have her aim (not shoot) turn laser on to see where she is pointing.
Do this firing side and support side, check for differences. When people first start using their support side to shoot (not sure if this is the case) they tend to slow down and do everything as perfect as possible. Thus the reason you are seeing groups high (firing side), and groups on target (support side). Please let us know when you have this solved. |
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Posted: 8/14/2020 2:54:49 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FS-FNRL: Not sure about a solution here, but have a thought, find a handgun with a laser. Have her aim (not shoot) turn laser on to see where she is pointing. Do this firing side and support side, check for differences. When people first start using their support side to shoot (not sure if this is the case) they tend to slow down and do everything as perfect as possible. Thus the reason you are seeing groups high (firing side), and groups on target (support side). Please let us know when you have this solved. That's a good idea. I don't have any laser mounted sights I could have her dryfire my sirt pistol at the range. |
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Posted: 8/14/2020 5:44:09 AM EDT
[#12]
I had a staff member consistently fail to qualify with the issue AR15. So I took him out to the private range with my Trash Panda and let him try with the MBUS and the dot turned off. All rounds were high. Then I thought of something and asked him - he was trying to fit the front sight protector wings to match up with the ghost ring rear, which meant the front sight post was high. Once I explained that the sight wings have nothing to do with sighting and the post goes in the middle of the ghost ring...he was zinging the steel at 100 yards standing without effort. AND he passed the next range with flying colors.
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Posted: 8/14/2020 10:26:30 AM EDT
[#13]
She might be eye sprinting.
Changing focus from front post to target; repeating back and forth. They tend to look up as they fire the weapon to see the results. This raises the gun slightly. |
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Posted: 8/14/2020 10:43:58 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ZippZ: Not sure. The range we're currently using is 25 and 50 yards only. We shot at 45 feet a couple weeks ago and she didn't have a good group so couldn't tell, a bit high generally I think.. She's improved a lot since then on precision shooting. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ZippZ: Originally Posted By sigman68: How does she shoot at 21 or 50 feet? Not sure. The range we're currently using is 25 and 50 yards only. We shot at 45 feet a couple weeks ago and she didn't have a good group so couldn't tell, a bit high generally I think.. She's improved a lot since then on precision shooting. 25 and 50 yard only pistol range? Damn. |
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Posted: 8/14/2020 10:57:57 AM EDT
[#15]
The SIRT pistol may show you also.
Total forgot about this other way to do it. Have her run the sights, you run the trigger. See where the bullets land. |
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Posted: 8/14/2020 3:41:10 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FS-FNRL: The SIRT pistol may show you also. Total forgot about this other way to do it. Have her run the sights, you run the trigger. See where the bullets land. I forgot about that too. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 8/19/2020 8:44:12 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 82ABN1: Ask her where she it aiming her sights at? Something is changing with the iron sights? This is a key question. We actually hand students a Sharpie and have them draw their sight picture on the target. This eliminates them explaining something that sounds right but isn’t. |
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Posted: 8/24/2020 8:32:44 AM EDT
[#18]
Which sights?
E.g. if you put the football in the goalpost on a glock, you shoot high. Not sure what idiot put the dot that low, but they need to be slapped. The meprolights on my one glock are a modest 6oclock hold. My FNX45 sights have the lamp pretty low in the front, so if I align the dots, it needs a pretty hefty 6oclock hold. If I make a castle, it shoots centered on top of the post. Maybe the excited looking over (mentioned above) is why I shot a new g19 so high the other day? Groups were good, but very high. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/4/2020 11:29:07 AM EDT
[#19]
were you able to get your student straightened out?
agree that this is a sight issue. If she's shooting high, it's probably because shes' seeing too much of the front sight. The stock glock u and dot sights are a classic example of this where she's focusing too much on the dot and not at the tip of the front sight. |
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Posted: 9/10/2020 7:01:19 PM EDT
[#20]
I consistently see shooters aiming over the top of the rear sight, even at 10-15 feet they'll be hitting high. As soon as I remind them to bring the front sight down, they center up. I try to stand where I can see their sight alignment as much as possible, and will spot that front sight up out of position and have to remind them.
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