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KS, USA
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Posted: 8/30/2020 4:12:35 PM EDT
I have a G17, G19 and G45 (and wanting to add a G43x and G48) all with RDS. I struggle with them quite a bit. I PERSONALLY think the iron sights are my problem on them as I am sub consciously trying to co-witness them and its causing issues.
However....I grab my CZ P10..and am lights out with it. Its more natural. I am just now getting back into shooting, so im pretty sure its a training issue. BUT.... What should I do/how should I train/should I ditch the RDS altogether? |
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Posted: 8/30/2020 4:27:58 PM EDT
[#1]
Remove the iron sights and get used to the red dot?
I must be lucky. I had not issue switching to the RMR and no issues going from a pistol with an RMR to a pistol with iron sights. Sometimes I shoot both sight systems at the range. Sometimes different pistols, sometimes just checking/confirming the back up sights are still letting me hit where I need to hit. Don't give up. Put a red dot on the P10. |
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Posted: 8/30/2020 4:32:34 PM EDT
[#2]
I just got my RMR mounted recently and I'm struggling too.
Sage Dynamics on youtube has really good info on it. I think a lot of it is in the grip. He talks about if your shots are stringing horizontally it's a grip issue and vertically it's a sight picture issue. Here's some links to help on your journey. 1st 2nd 3rd |
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Posted: 8/30/2020 7:19:10 PM EDT
[#3]
Originally Posted By M1A4ME: Remove the iron sights Originally Posted By thorn653: Sage Dynamics This is exactly why Aaron Cowan advocates rear iron sight forward. Iron sights serve no purpose with an MRDS except in the highly unlikely event your $400+ Trijicon RMR fails. You want to minimize the likelihood of your eyes being drawn to the iron sights. The sight radius is shorter, however, you'll find you're still proficient with the iron sights at a self-defense distance. If you think your eyes are being drawn to the iron sights, I'd remove them until you break yourself of that habit. |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 8/31/2020 7:05:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wickedbeernut: +1 +1 This is exactly why Aaron Cowan advocates rear iron sight forward. Iron sights serve no purpose with an MRDS except in the highly unlikely event your $400+ Trijicon RMR fails. You want to minimize the likelihood of your eyes being drawn to the iron sights. The sight radius is shorter, however, you'll find you're still proficient with the iron sights at a self-defense distance. If you think your eyes are being drawn to the iron sights, I'd remove them until you break yourself of that habit. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wickedbeernut: Originally Posted By M1A4ME: Remove the iron sights Originally Posted By thorn653: Sage Dynamics This is exactly why Aaron Cowan advocates rear iron sight forward. Iron sights serve no purpose with an MRDS except in the highly unlikely event your $400+ Trijicon RMR fails. You want to minimize the likelihood of your eyes being drawn to the iron sights. The sight radius is shorter, however, you'll find you're still proficient with the iron sights at a self-defense distance. If you think your eyes are being drawn to the iron sights, I'd remove them until you break yourself of that habit. Sounds like they are all coming off then. I sold the 19 today, which I have NEVER shot a 19 well. Will remove the iron sights off the 17 and the 45 and see how things go after class this weekend. Thanks all! |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 9/4/2020 12:16:00 AM EDT
[#5]
When our officers want to start carrying a pistol RDS, they go through a 1 day conversion course (We asked for 3 days, Admin gave us 1). It’s legit buzzer-to-buzzer all day training, and for the first half of the day, we work heavily on target acquisition. It’s literally several hours of draw-aim-shoot-holster-repeat, with just variations like which hand is used, or what distance it’s from.
It comes down to repetition. You have to develop the neural pathways in your brain to develop that automaticity (aka “muscle memory”). The suggestions here like ditching your irons for a bit are good, because it’ll remove that crutch. If you don’t carry the gun for duty or self defense, and you have a backup, then quite frankly you don’t need BUIS on the gun if all you’re doing is range practice and training. |
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Posted: 9/4/2020 12:22:31 AM EDT
[#6]
Modern Samurai Project with Scott Jedlinski (Jedi). Will teach you a shit ton!
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Posted: 9/13/2020 7:41:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Yea, I will absolutely echo Sage Dyamics....learned from his youtube series, then shot the rds a bit, then took his course...finished about two hours ago, very legit! Give it (the rds) a chance- it is VERY worthwhile. Very.
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USA
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Posted: 10/9/2020 12:35:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Raptor22]
[#8]
Spammer.
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Posted: 10/20/2020 7:11:26 AM EDT
[#9]
I had the exact same issue with Glocks.
My problem was two fold. 1. Never owned a Glock b/c (for me) is 17 is too large and 19 is too small. Picked up a 45. Grip angle is definitely a thing with Glocks. 2. Installed optic compatible irons (Ameriglo GL-429) and RMR before first range trip. I zeroed irons independently of RMR. My issue came with with “real” presentation. I instinctively pointed the gun way too high. This can be fixed at the expense of training but when weighed against my other HD/CCW pistols (P-10c, PPQ, VP9, M&P 2.0, SP-01, MK25, etc.), it didn’t make any sense to break familiarity with what I already own just to conform to the “Glock is best...PERIOD” crowd. That said, if I were starting out from ground zero, a case could be made for going 100% Glock for all things pistol. You’d get huge aftermarket parts/holster/milling support and the only downsides I see would be lackluster triggers (only so much can be done to a Glock style trigger) and LEGO block like ergos. |
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Posted: 1/29/2021 4:55:45 PM EDT
[#10]
It is a practice thing to learn more about how to acquire sights, etc. I still think I can acquire iron sites faster, but red dot hit more accurately. I know for me I just need to practice on the RDS more to be more efficient with it.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 1/29/2021 5:03:23 PM EDT
[#11]
Start with an SRO. it will be happy times
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Posted: 1/29/2021 5:13:33 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UnaStamus: When our officers want to start carrying a pistol RDS, they go through a 1 day conversion course (We asked for 3 days, Admin gave us 1). It’s legit buzzer-to-buzzer all day training, and for the first half of the day, we work heavily on target acquisition. It’s literally several hours of draw-aim-shoot-holster-repeat, with just variations like which hand is used, or what distance it’s from. It comes down to repetition. You have to develop the neural pathways in your brain to develop that automaticity (aka “muscle memory”). The suggestions here like ditching your irons for a bit are good, because it’ll remove that crutch. If you don’t carry the gun for duty or self defense, and you have a backup, then quite frankly you don’t need BUIS on the gun if all you’re doing is range practice and training. Yep...when I switched to an RMR I would sit at my desk (home office) and practice bringing the gun up and picking up the dot while on conference calls. I can't even guess how many thousands of times I did it....eventually it started to become natural to pick up the dot without trying. |
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Posted: 1/29/2021 6:17:17 PM EDT
[#13]
I just started with a RDS with the acss vulcan reticle and have had zero issues transitioning.
I had previously played with RDS pistols and but never could find the dot fast enough. Never really trained though. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 1/29/2021 6:43:48 PM EDT
[#14]
Quit looking at the gun, and target focus.
It can be helpful to put a piece of tape over the front of the lens, that way you can only see a good sight picture while target focused. Do your dryfire like this. It doesn't really matter sights/ no sights/ whatever, you HAVE to learn to target focus. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/29/2021 7:55:22 PM EDT
[#15]
I find a green dot on a pistol is easier to see and put on target.
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Posted: 1/31/2021 7:49:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eazeaz: Start with an SRO. it will be happy times thats what I am seeing. Been working quite hard at RDS and its amazing how much faster it is! |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/2/2021 10:40:43 AM EDT
[#17]
Like stated repetition. I would dry fire constantly before I got it down and felt comfortable carrying on/off duty . My problem at first was keeping both eyes open.
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MN, USA
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Posted: 3/3/2021 1:40:38 PM EDT
[#18]
There is also a different dynamic with every pistol. What a lot of people miss is that guns tend to present high, and with RDS you have no dot to index off of like you do a front iron sight. A simple yet effective solution is to squeeze your pinky fingers downward on the grip as you extend out. If you can’t find the dot right away when you present the gun, that pinky pressure on the grip will bring the barrel downward and the dot will more often than not settle into view immediately. Pinky pressure pays dividends with pistol RDS. This is something easier to demonstrate than explain, but nevertheless it bears mentioning that your grip plays one of the biggest roles in dot acquisition.
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Posted: 3/7/2021 1:13:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: bg10]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CSAkuklos: Quit looking at the gun, and target focus. It can be helpful to put a piece of tape over the front of the lens, that way you can only see a good sight picture while target focused. Do your dryfire like this. It doesn't really matter sights/ no sights/ whatever, you HAVE to learn to target focus. This helped me a lot when I started doing it. Stare at your target, concentrate on focusing on it. Don’t try to pick up the dot on the draw. Overlay the target with the dot. This works really well for me and I never seem to have problems finding the dot. One of the great advantages of the MRDS is the ability to have target focus. |
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Posted: 6/1/2021 5:18:54 PM EDT
[#20]
I happen to checkout one of my friend's red dot that made is so much easier to focus on the dot, well in this case a chevron. Check out the Holosun 507C-X2-ACSS. It has a outer ring that shouldn't appear when fully extended.. which gives you an easier time to find the center as you shoot. They use a chevron rather than a red dot. I was very impressed by it.. enough where I am going to look at purchasing some. Note I run RMR sights on my handguns.
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Posted: 6/5/2021 9:56:16 AM EDT
[#21]
I agree with a hard, hard target focus. You aren’t focusing on the dot during presentation, you are focusing on the target and then the dot is just there. It’s kind of point shooting with a dot to confirm. The dot shows if your presentation is good or not.
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USA
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Posted: 5/5/2022 1:28:56 PM EDT
[#22]
"Modern Samurai Project with Scott Jedlinski (Jedi). Will teach you a shit ton!"
I have been to four red dot courses, Modern Samurai has been the best! |
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Posted: 5/16/2022 10:46:15 AM EDT
[#23]
So....I have switched platforms.....still shooting red dot, but now on a 2011.
That fixed about 90% of my problems. Night and day difference. Probably a combo of that and shooting more has helped immensely |
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Posted: 7/17/2022 12:12:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: dcs12345]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By awmp: "Modern Samurai Project with Scott Jedlinski (Jedi). Will teach you a shit ton!" I have been to four red dot courses, Modern Samurai has been the best! Just watching YouTube videos of his classes and of him has helped me a fair bit with picking up the dot quicker. |
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Posted: 7/17/2022 10:48:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ryo]
[#25]
..sorry posted wrong place.
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USA
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Posted: 7/27/2022 9:55:46 AM EDT
[#26]
Originally Posted By derek1387: I have a G17, G19 and G45 (and wanting to add a G43x and G48) all with RDS. I struggle with them quite a bit. I PERSONALLY think the iron sights are my problem on them as I am sub consciously trying to co-witness them and its causing issues. However....I grab my CZ P10..and am lights out with it. Its more natural. I am just now getting back into shooting, so im pretty sure its a training issue. BUT.... What should I do/how should I train/should I ditch the RDS altogether? After shooting "iron sighted" handguns for 38 years prior to installing my first MRDS I too struggled with trying to find the front sight instead of the dot. It is just a training issue that you can over come with time. I will say, I do NOT recommend transitioning between RDS and non-RDS handguns because you will have an issue under stress. I have rotated between Glocks with RMRs / RMRccs and HK hammer fired guns and the muscle memory (mag release button vs paddle) and "sight picture" (MRDS vs open sights) requires a significant amount of "retraining". If you're going to commit to a MRDS then fully commit. Regarding "acquiring" the dot, I found that having a more "heads up" stance helped when I started. Instead of a "head down" iso stance I was more "heads up" iso and that placed my line-of-sight above the irons and through the window. I also found that not-looking-for-the-front-sight and focusing on the target instead helps. Try heads-up and super imposing the dot on your target (the focus) instead of the front sight. Also, with a gun quadrupple checked for empty and no mag in reach while pointed in a safe direction (sorry ... the interweb cops are about), try to get at least 100 presentations in every night until the dot comes up naturally. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/11/2022 6:31:16 PM EDT
[#27]
Put tape over the front of your optic. This will force you to focus on the target and use your peripheral vision to overlay the dot on the target.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/5/2023 6:28:32 PM EDT
[#28]
The problem is with your draw and presentation, Draw to your chest and punch out, drive both thumbs to the target ant the reddot will appear. If your draw and presentation are correct the shot should be on.
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Posted: 8/5/2023 6:50:27 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CSAkuklos: Quit looking at the gun, and target focus. It can be helpful to put a piece of tape over the front of the lens, that way you can only see a good sight picture while target focused. Do your dryfire like this. It doesn't really matter sights/ no sights/ whatever, you HAVE to learn to target focus. For real world analogy, try moving a computer mouse across the screen staring at the mouse pointer. Now try it looking where one wants the mouse to go... |
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