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Posted: 10/9/2021 8:20:27 AM EDT
Starts with pistol...moves onto rifle pistol transitions
Shooting the EL Pres, Retired SF Guy takes on a classic with G45, AR15, and Zastava M90.
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 8:55:37 AM EDT
[#1]
Thata good shooting. One of the comments was to shoot accurate and fast. I always thought that to shoot fast accurately, first you had to shoot accurate and speed up after. Is there a better way to do it?
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 11:20:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Stukas87] [#2]
Once you have a decent baseline in accuracy you must practice them in tandem always.
If you don't always press yourself for speed you will never get better.

A pro timer is the best training aid. Set time standards for yourself and keep trying to break them.
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 12:10:07 PM EDT
[#3]
Once you have developed proper accuracy, work on efficiency in movement in the draw and reload. Doesn’t have to look “fast”.

I attended an IDPA match 10+ years ago, when I was a good competitor.  A recently retired federal officer was on my squad and was tearing up the stages.  We got to an El Prez and I shot it with one of my best times and no points down.

The retiree went next and I thought that I had topped him. Scorer announced his time and he was probably two seconds faster than my time.  I continued watching him. He was as efficient as any competitor I ever watched. Absolutely no wasted movement.
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 12:41:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JWnTN:
Once you have developed proper accuracy, work on efficiency in movement in the draw and reload. Doesn’t have to look “fast”.

I attended an IDPA match 10+ years ago, when I was a good competitor.  A recently retired federal officer was on my squad and was tearing up the stages.  We got to an El Prez and I shot it with one of my best times and no points down.

The retiree went next and I thought that I had topped him. Scorer announced his time and he was probably two seconds faster than my time.  I continued watching him. He was as efficient as any competitor I ever watched. Absolutely no wasted movement.
View Quote


Great point, efficiency equals speed
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 12:46:12 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Stukas87:


Great point, efficiency equals speed
View Quote

An older competitor always said, slow becomes smooth, smooth becomes fast.
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 12:48:13 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JWnTN:

An older competitor always said, slow becomes smooth, smooth becomes fast.
View Quote


well to a point, you must practice speed to your breaking point
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 1:32:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Mach] [#7]
He is supposed to be a retired SF guy and he:

1. Reloads while looking down at his gun instead of up in the work space where he can see movement
2. Closes one eye while shooting instead of both eyes open for maximum SA
3. Looks at his holster while he holsters, again, taking his eyes off his workspace and not looking for unexpected threats.

Maybe it's his age or medical conditions, I don't know, but I am skeptical of any trainer that does any of those things. To me it implies a lack of confidence, a lack of skill, a lack of training and a lack of  proficiency all geared to putting holes on paper.

Flame suit on.
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 3:09:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Stukas87] [#8]
Im the guy!
1. Right eye squinted not closed, righty pistol left eye dominant.
2. "work space" is hot garbage its all about speed with the reload, Sticking pistol up in your face for "work space sense" is a feelgood tactic only
Which is more important? Reloading gun before you get shot? Or look around for SA because for some reason ones peripheral vision not good enough during a reload?  
3. Holster valid point

In the end its now about looking cool or tactical, its performance time and hits speak for themselves
Il put my 6.19 rifle to pistol transition up against anyone.  you get one chance 10yards

Age:....Im in my prime
medical condition.... not yet


Thanks for the feedback
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 3:42:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Mach] [#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Stukas87:
Im the guy!
1. Right eye squinted not closed, righty pistol left eye dominant.
2. "work space" is hot garbage its all about speed with the reload, Sticking pistol up in your face for "work space sense" is a feelgood tactic only
3. Holster valid point

In the end its now about looking cool or tactical, its performance time and hits speak for themselves
Il put my 6.19 rifle to pistol transition up against anyone.  you get one chance 10yards

Age:....Im in my prime
medical condition.... not yet


Thanks for the feedback
View Quote



Didnt know it was you

1. that does take special technique
2. Valid point about speed but nobody stays still so disagree. you can be just as fast with the weapon at eye level and be able to see movement in your periphery and in front of the gun while still focusing enough on loading the mag. If you go eyes down your eyes are out of the fight and when you come back eyes  up you have to asses from scratch which does take time. you can be just as fast without taking your eyes completely off the threat / threat axis. you will probably be moving when you do that so you also have to look where you are going. Even down just enough that only your eyes go down not your head can make a difference in use of peripheral vision.  
Something to consider

3. Lots of cops have holstered taking eyes off the threat axis thinking the fight was over when it wasnt. that was trained out of me by targets swinging into play when the line thought the string was over


But I do concede you have way more experience and training than I do and mine is very specific to a limited situation

going to watch more of your videos to learn stuff. Thanks for posting it
Link Posted: 11/30/2021 4:44:31 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Stukas87:
Once you have a decent baseline in accuracy you must practice them in tandem always.
If you don't always press yourself for speed you will never get better.

A pro timer is the best training aid. Set time standards for yourself and keep trying to break them.
View Quote


The part I emphasized is tough for some to embrace, especially those whose shooting lives do not intersect with the competition world.  The old "slow is smooth, smooth is fast" meme is deeply ingrained in the collective mind.  The slow/smooth thing only helps at a base level to improve efficiency of movement.  At some point, the only thing that is fast is being fast.  You can get "less slow" by being smooth/efficient, but getting to fast means doing exactly what you stated.

Another aspect that is less well understood outside of action competition is where and when you need to be fast.  Too many believe it's all about how quickly you can press the trigger from shot to shot.  Fast split times are great, but the real speed comes in getting onto target, breaking the first quickly, transitioning between targets quickly, and of course everything you do from the start signal/threat indication to go from what you are doing to getting the gun out of the holster, on target, and breaking the first shot as quickly as possible.  Split times between shots are less meaningful except for special cases where the drill is more than a couple of shots on one target (like a Bill Drill).
Link Posted: 12/10/2021 3:09:57 PM EDT
[#11]
I like El Prez.  I shoot it with pistol, and rifle, and I've been known to add variables to it.

Drills help us identify shortcomings.

Poster above is right, it's not about jerking that trigger faster and faster, it's about other things.

Areas to work on at reducing time on this drill, for example are reloads, and transitioning between targets.  You work on those 2 things, you reduce your time.

Also getting the gun out and up.  Look at how Bill Rogers teaches the draw:  get your hand to the gun FAST!
Link Posted: 12/11/2021 11:59:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: R_S] [#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mach:
He is supposed to be a retired SF guy and he:

1. Reloads while looking down at his gun instead of up in the work space where he can see movement
2. Closes one eye while shooting instead of both eyes open for maximum SA
3. Looks at his holster while he holsters, again, taking his eyes off his workspace and not looking for unexpected threats.

Maybe it's his age or medical conditions, I don't know, but I am skeptical of any trainer that does any of those things. To me it implies a lack of confidence, a lack of skill, a lack of training and a lack of  proficiency all geared to putting holes on paper.

Flame suit on.
View Quote


Specifically on point #3, I strongly disagree.

If there are still potential threats you shouldn't be holstering in the first place.  

If you are finished shooting, making sure you don't shoot yourself while reholstering is most important.  Especially in this age of appendix carry and no manual safeties, insuring your holster is not blocked with clothing or something else is a life and death thing.

Most of you reading this are more likely to have a holster accident than ever have an unexpected threat "During reholstering".  By about a 87 million times.
Link Posted: 12/11/2021 6:26:01 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JWnTN:
Once you have developed proper accuracy, work on efficiency in movement in the draw and reload. Doesn’t have to look “fast”.

I attended an IDPA match 10+ years ago, when I was a good competitor.  A recently retired federal officer was on my squad and was tearing up the stages.  We got to an El Prez and I shot it with one of my best times and no points down.

The retiree went next and I thought that I had topped him. Scorer announced his time and he was probably two seconds faster than my time.  I continued watching him. He was as efficient as any competitor I ever watched. Absolutely no wasted movement.
View Quote



This is key.
Link Posted: 4/23/2022 9:20:41 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mach:
He is supposed to be a retired SF guy and he:

1. Reloads while looking down at his gun instead of up in the work space where he can see movement
2. Closes one eye while shooting instead of both eyes open for maximum SA
3. Looks at his holster while he holsters, again, taking his eyes off his workspace and not looking for unexpected threats.

Maybe it's his age or medical conditions, I don't know, but I am skeptical of any trainer that does any of those things. To me it implies a lack of confidence, a lack of skill, a lack of training and a lack of  proficiency all geared to putting holes on paper.

Flame suit on.
View Quote

Plenty of examples of shooting yourself while holstering, so looking at the holster makes sense.

Besides, why would you holster the pistol if there are still threats around?
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