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Posted: 4/30/2022 11:03:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: PistoleroJesse]
The trend to more upright shooting and less prone shooting of carbines seems to be driving equipment changes.

We are seing more and more gear put the eye higher over the bore to keep a natural position while at the same time keep the but firmly in the pocket.

Look at this gal's setup:
Magpul - Extended Minute - 060 Stance and Rifle Grip


High mount AND a cheek riser. I hear a lot of complaints about chin welds these days. It started me thinking about the pros and cons of the 1.93" spacer on my red dot carbine vs the 1.46" I have on my spr and why I opted for a high mount on the offset red dot mount as I build it out.

I feel like we are slowly learning what NRA high power shooters always knew about the various positions and why they build their space guns the way they do to maximize potential at each position.

So... I'm wondering what other people are doing to adapt their gear and training into something that isn't just square range/gun game usable but relevant and robust enough for actual conflict.
Link Posted: 4/30/2022 11:59:14 AM EDT
[#1]
I can’t see that setup being useful for anything but standing. If you are doing competition that is 100% standing, that’s great.

If the weapon is/may be used in a variety of positions I’d rather a sight-height that works reasonably well for all of them. Something in the middle. It won’t be optimal for any position, but it’ll do the job for all of them.

For me that’s the common 1.5” height. I use 1.3” in service rifle competition. It’s perfect for me in prone, sitting, and standing (using target stance) but it’s a little low for tactical shooting on my feet. 1.5” is a better middle ground for me in that regard. Anything taller and prone would become a train wreck.

Since a fighting weapon is going to be more set-and-forget (as opposed to a high power “space-gun” reconfigured for each stage) I think picking a single configuration that does “pretty good” across all positions is what most shooters need and I just don’t see tall mounts doing that.
Link Posted: 4/30/2022 12:29:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Sinister] [#2]
FPNI.

Before they consolidated their rules, metallic silhouette shooting was an all-standing discipline.  Some folks had scopes up to 4-6 inches higher than bore line, taking chin welds on the stocks to accommodate the upright offhand position -- but the rifle was worthless for anything else.
Link Posted: 4/30/2022 12:54:10 PM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 4/30/2022 1:47:35 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TonyF:

And that due to its 2.5 inch deviation in sightline-to-boreline, most of the butt stock should extend above the plane of the shoulder(s) in order to achieve a proper (and comfortable) cheekweld...
View Quote



Outside of the context of rifle setup (from an instructional viewpoint) the above statement is note worthy.

Most folks put the butt in the shoulder pocket at or below the aforementioned 'plane of the shoulder'; resulting in shooters forcing their head down to sight the weapon.


Tony, I am stealing that term from you.
Link Posted: 4/30/2022 2:26:16 PM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 4/30/2022 4:18:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: PistoleroJesse] [#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TonyF:


Be my guest.

The part of your reply I highlighted is exactly what the girl in the video is doing but then she has a riser on the butt stock (to compensate?). It's like the math (engineering) of the AR15 "in line" butt stock has all but been forgotten.

Sigh.
View Quote



To be fair the whole point was no lever arm right? If you move the but up out of your shoulder and just leave the bttom 1/3rd you create the lever arm don't you?
Link Posted: 4/30/2022 6:47:29 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 4/30/2022 8:30:52 PM EDT
[#8]
FPNI.

I fully agree that sight height should be set at the do all master of none height, somewhere in the middle. I too want something optimal for all from prone to standing. 1.93 and higher, isn't optimal for me to achieve that with. And 1.45 and below, isn't optimal to me either.

It's just the way it is really.
Link Posted: 5/1/2022 10:47:11 AM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 5/7/2022 9:23:04 AM EDT
[#10]
I thought NV usage thru the optic was driving the push for higher mounts?  

Personally I always used IR for aiming, had the NV on the non-dominant eye, with the ability to go white light and red dot instantly via the dominant eye.  Height was always the standard A2 equivalent.  Somehow that worked OK.  Prone sucked at times but that was a helmet issue usually.  

Setting any equipment up that is optimized for just one style is not a great idea in my opinion.  Spent plenty of time pointing a rifle at 5 feet away, or across a room, and plenty of time 50-100 yds out where I was using cover or a stable position.  You need to know all of the various shooting positions and stances, as they all have pros and cons.  

And yeah you don’t need much contact with the buttstock to stabilize the rifle.
Link Posted: 5/7/2022 9:57:28 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tac556:


Setting any equipment up that is optimized for just one style is not a great idea in my opinion.  Spent plenty of time pointing a rifle at 5 feet away, or across a room, and plenty of time 50-100 yds out where I was using cover or a stable position.  You need to know all of the various shooting positions and stances, as they all have pros and cons.  

View Quote
It's quite refreshing to finally see that it's not just me noticing the same deficiencies when setting up for just one way of doing things (standing straight up only and either clearing rooms or the entire cul-de-sac with or without night vision and again, on both feet standing up doing as their favorite authority figures do on YT or the 'gram).
Link Posted: 5/13/2022 4:57:53 PM EDT
[#12]
@Tobysi
Link Posted: 5/27/2022 9:38:59 AM EDT
[#13]
I bought a cheap riser to bring a red dot up to the higher 1.93" height. Not really my thing. I don't do NV( I know...my funeral)
I'll stick with my tried and true lower 1/3rd height.
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