All,
I come to you in a time of great need.
I need a powder dispenser that will work with a fairly fine ball powder H110.
I need it to throw up to 1000 grains. (yeah, you read that right)
I need it to do a LOT of dispensing.
RCBS has the matchmaster which looks very nice HOWEVER, it can't have any bluetooth or wifi.

Any ideas here?
Thanks

Have you seen the V3 Autotrickler w/Autothrow paired with FX-120i? autotrickler.com

Should be able to disable bluetooth or find a V2 in the EE that does not have bluetooth.

According to a table at Lee Precision (link) the Volume Measure Density (VMD) of H110 is 0.0656 (cc/grain).  Based on that, 1,000 grains should be 65.6cc or 2.22 US fluid ounces.  

You could 3D print a custom dipper set and pair it with an Autotrickler. It would be quick and precise.

BTW wow. Sylvan. You're legendary. First post in over 2 years? Nice!

Sounds fun.

You meant to write 2.22 US Fluid ounces = 4.00 cubic inches!...    (both are volumetric measurements)

The reason I used fluid ounces is that there are common kitchen measuring cups and spoons that might be able to be adapted...  a measuring tablespoon is 15cc.  4 tablespoons = 60 cc = 1/4 cup (baking measure) = 2 ounces.  1 measuring teaspoon = 5 cc.  So in theory, 1/4 cup + 1 teaspoon = 65cc - pretty close to 65.6.

So a quick and dirty way to "dip" the charge is dip 1/4 cup and trickle (sprinkle) using a measuring teaspoon - on a scale.  This is how I measure most charges (dip and trickle - into a pan on a scale).  All that is needed now is a scale that with a capacity over 1,000 grains and they are pretty common.  Smaller "large" charges would require a different combination of measuring cup/spoon.  Kitchen measuring cups and spoons are available in "sets" in the baking aisle of most grocery stores at inexpensive prices.  

Cheers!

Equally divide one pound of powder into 7 piles op and you have seven 1000 grain charges..


ETA: If you want I several pounds of H110, I can see if the charge master lite will meter a 1000 grain charge..

OK, To be clear, I am not throwing H110 and this is not for reloading.  I have a fairly unique manufacturing demand that really doesn't have any COTS capital equipment for it.  I do reload 410 shells for skeet and the powder I need to meter is very similar.  Additionally the amount I need to throw varies by several to dozen grains daily.

Okay is the powder (or whatever) the same density each time? If so I think you could still use a custom dipper to be a bit below the smallest charge weight. Then use Autotrickler, etc to cover both the variation in charges and final trickle up.

Just one way to do it.

not exactly

which is why the auto trickler is so key.  Part of this is the requirement for automating as much as possible.

we have been looking at those as well.  But the QA verification is kicking our ass.  Customer won't accept it, for now.

My charge master lite will dispense up to 999.9 grains at a shot, problem is getting a big enough pan to sit on the scale and clear the dispenser tube since its all built into 1 unit..I have to wonder if the regular charge master will dispense that big of a charge...

The guys at autotrickler would know how to do this. I get the impression that the fx scale was engineered to be talked to.  I’m sure there’s a scaled up version to be had.

The first place I'd go is to Adam MacDonald who designed the AutoTrickler, then the AutoiThrower. These devices are based on quality digital scales that have serial output ports (previously used eg for printing out results) to communicate with microprocessors (the leatest commercial version incorporating Arduinos) continuously in real time.

The microprocessors use the scale's currently reported weight to drive servos to make a bolus throw (amount set at initialization) and then drive a trickler at various speeds to throw powder until the current target weight is reached. The trickler slows down dramatically as pan weight approaches target and are programmed to stop trickling 0.02gr below target weight. This produces accuracy of +/= 0.02gr to target. Initially the devices were controlled solely through input via the scale itself (V1 and V2) but today have evolved to Bluetooth/cellphone control (V3). An older V1 or V2 (which should be readily available, even if only due to trade-ins) may work for your application

However even these devices probably don't fully suit your needs (see below). But the code and hardware mods required may be simple enough to accomplish at a reasonable commercial price, and Adam certainly has the experience base to quickly tell you what can be done, whether he is interested in doing that, and what it would cost.

Here are the problems I see at first glance:

1) In the current V3 model, Bluetooth would need to be disabled, preferably code removed, as you specified. Easy.
2) A suitable "Overthrow Alarm" would be needed. A simple alarm, perhaps merely a "stop", should be relatively easy.
3) The bolus throw comes from a commercial-sized reloader's powder measure. These do not have cavities large enough to throw (eg) 995 grains.
4) Even with a proper cavity, the powder measure's reservoir is not large enough to support multiple 1K throws without frequent manual intervention.
5) Scale capacity may become a factor. EG, the A&D FX120i has a max capacity of 122 grams. The pan for this powder would have to weigh less than 57 grams, ie, less than 2oz for those of us who are metric challenged :) OTOH, there are several suitable scales that can be used in a "stock" setup with perhaps higher max capacities.

The scale's physical constraints should not be an issue for a 1K throw. Also, the scales used were chosen precisely because they are not strain gauge load cells and they do not malfunction in the presence of RF noise from motors and many many other forms of transmission. This cannot be said with confidence of other commercially available dispenser's including the RCBS Matchmaster.

I would contact Adam. He has been down this road before and may be interested in helping out, or eliminating this possibility.

How many throws per hour do you need?

Do you have a budget constraint?

Precision requirements?

I have already gone back and forth a few times with him. Running into some issues.  Maybe we can work it out.  The technology is there, but they went all in with bluetooth.

How many throws per hour do you need?  20-80  (note, I would probably buy two.  Redundancy good)

Do you have a budget constraint? No

Precision requirements. +- .05 gram (whatever the fuck that is in grains)

Bluetooth is an addon. They had the old interface and I expect the new one would work like the old one did using the buttons as an interface.

Theres some manuals here with some interface examples. I know its workable. Just need the right person to figure it out.

https://www.oldwillknottscales.com/and-ej-02-usb-interface-for-newton.html

So, do we get to see video of this mysterious device doing it's thing?
(The one sparking the powder.)

dupe

Actually, no.  Sorry.  Part of the reason no bluetooth is allowed.

Drats.

sigman68 are you going to build him a mystery dispenser?



Attached File

👆that’s what I was thinking of while reading the posts.

Some secret squirrel level stuff..... no WiFi or Bluetooth (able to be hidden) the panel van across the street isn’t going to pick up the radio signals from 2 “money is no object” auto dispensing scales.....

1000 grains is just an odd measurement though. 1/7lb, 64.7989 grams...... ~50 grams of mysterious fairly fine powder dispensed tared out into a 10-15g container?????🤔

Dispensed 20-80 times an hour........ so roughly breaking down 1-4 kg an hour into smaller quantities....... and again without any price constraints...... 🤔

Intriguing, but highly suspicious. 😂

It's the primary charge for a two stage hyper-velocity gas gun.

They're still playing with the trade-off of primary charge versus gas charge.  That's why they need to be able to adjust the powder charge.  

Yeah the v3 is great, maybe get the v2 since it's not Bluetooth enabled. You would just manually set the target weight.

You could buy the Hornady 50 BMG powder measure and a power trickler.  The measure itself might get it close enough at say 4 throws of 250 grs. each..