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Posted: 7/12/2020 10:21:18 PM EDT
The title says it all. I am considering a precision bolt rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor.
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[#1]
Well....
I have a remington 5R stainless in a KRG chassis that is putting 136 L scenars into .25 inch at 100 yards... SAKO is another Stellar choice.. their TRG 22 is epic. Tikka is also up there. But for $900 and change, the Remington 5R is hard to beat. |
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[#2]
The best bolt actions are the ones you build with a smith. They use actions from Defiance, Kelbly, Bat etc., and barrels from Bartlein, Brux, and Kreiger etc.
What is your budget, and what is your goal for this 6.5 CM? |
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[#3]
For factory I have seen a lot of Tikka's and Bergera's shoot nice groups. Remington can be hit or miss.
Otherwise, I agree with SuperDutyMike. Building your own, or having it built for you, from the ground up with a custom action and quality barrel is the best way to go. |
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[#4]
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[#5]
Originally Posted By Texas_Sig: Around $2000 for the rifle. I'm interested in something that will take advantage of the full range of the 6.5 CM round. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Texas_Sig: Originally Posted By SuperDutyMikeMc: What is your budget, and what is your goal for this 6.5 CM? Around $2000 for the rifle. I'm interested in something that will take advantage of the full range of the 6.5 CM round. You won't be buying "the best" with that budget. Just so you know. |
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"...Had the doctrines of Jesus been preached always as pure as they came from his lips, the whole civilized world would now have been Christian...." - Thomas Jefferson
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[Last Edit: SuperDutyMikeMc]
[#6]
Originally Posted By Texas_Sig: Around $2000 for the rifle. I'm interested in something that will take advantage of the full range of the 6.5 CM round. View Quote For 'around' $2000 ($2300 - they just dropped the price significantly...used to be $3200 IIRC) you can actually get something top of the line. It's not setup for dedicated target use but it would work very well for it. Kind of a dual purpose rifle really. Kelbly Koda Rifle: https://www.kelbly.com/koda-rifle/ Atlas Tactical Action Krieger Barrel - threaded for can or brake Greyboe Stock that's hand bedded M5 bottom metal Bix trigger Chambered by Kelblys using a .199fb JGS reamer It checks all the boxes for a very high class rig, that's actually a steal at $2300)...like a really really good deal if you're looking for a 'dual sport' type setup. Kelbly's doesn't make anything 'low quality' or second rate in my experience, and they're available/in-stock. Edit: This would blow a Tikka out of the water IMO. If that doesn't interest you, I'd be buying the cheapest Remington I could find in a stock I liked, and then having a smith immediately replace the factory barrel with a Bart/Brux/Krieger...no action work unless absolutely required. Replace the trigger and get to it. |
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[#7]
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[#8]
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[#9]
Accuracy International if you don't want to wait for custom work.
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[#10]
You could always get this. Great parts and right at your price point. Better than any factory rifle you will find.
https://masterpiecearms.com/shop/mpa-ba-pmr-competition-rifle/ |
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[#11]
Inflation has gone through the roof . I paid $3209.00 out the door for a brand new 1969 Z28 in 1969. Gold was $35.00 an oz in 1970 . A dollar isn't worth a damn any more. IMHO I would buy a Bargara ,Tikka or the like and develop a great had load for it and practice until I got better than the rifle and then go custom if you need . You can always sell it if you can't ring out the performance you want.
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[#12]
There are a lot of shops that make great rifles. I personally like to work with the guys at Alamo Precision. Check out their site and you can get an idea of pricing if you want to go that route.
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[#13]
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[Last Edit: minion42]
[#14]
That's a super general question.
Absolute "best?" Probably a custom. Off-the-shelf "best?" I'd say Tikka hands down. Most of us don't need "the best." Frankly only the top shooters at the matches are actually squeezing that potential out of a gun. Get a Bergara HMR or a Tikka CTR or Tac A1 and learn to shoot. You'd be surprised what those will do. From the question I'm assuming you're new to this, meaning what I said is even more true. It's the Indian, not the arrow. |
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[#15]
OP, your quest is a good one.
Do you reload? How many rounds do you shoot per year? Do you compete? Do you have a classification? Have you had formal instruction? What is the farthest that you’ll be able to shoot? What’s the farthest distance you shoot now? What’s the average size of 5-10 shot groups you shoot counting each and every shot? You don’t have to answer these questions here, but you should certainly think about them. There are tons of great rifles, builders, and calibers. 6.5 bullets offer a lot of capability. Over 90% of shooters would be better off with a $1,000 rifle, training, range fees, ammo, entry fees, and trigger time. Find a mentor if you don’t have one. You’ll grow much faster with a mentor or training partner. |
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Distinguished Pistol, Distinguished Rifle, Distinguished Rimfire Pistol
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[Last Edit: smarcus]
[#16]
Originally Posted By Texas_Sig: How much do I need to spend to get the top-of-the-line? View Quote This is about $5,500 for the base rifle. With optic and everything there its about $10K: Attached File And this one is about $1,600 for the base rifle with a few mods (Including a vertical Grip and Badger bolt knop not in picture) but no optic, rings or bipod and is still good With optic and everything there its about $3400: Attached File Both are 6.5 Creedmoor. |
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Sarcasm is an art and I'm painting my master piece
WA, USA
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[Last Edit: RePp]
[#17]
Originally Posted By AR-180: OP, your quest is a good one. Do you reload? How many rounds do you shoot per year? Do you compete? Do you have a classification? Have you had formal instruction? What is the farthest that you’ll be able to shoot? What’s the farthest distance you shoot now? What’s the average size of 5-10 shot groups you shoot counting each and every shot? You don’t have to answer these questions here, but you should certainly think about them. There are tons of great rifles, builders, and calibers. 6.5 bullets offer a lot of capability. Over 90% of shooters would be better off with a $1,000 rifle, training, range fees, ammo, entry fees, and trigger time. Find a mentor if you don’t have one. You’ll grow much faster with a mentor or training partner. View Quote Best precision rifle in 6.5 creed. Simple question. It would be a custom job with something like defiance or impact action and a bartlien, lija etc barrel. Off the shelf a seekins would be hard to beat. |
I've been blessed with many things in this life: an arm like a damn rocket, a cock like a burmese python, and the mind of a fucking scientist.
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[Last Edit: ShOcKeRpb]
[#18]
It seems to me, the real question would be "What is your background on long-range precision shooting".
Take a new shooter with the "best" $6000 rifle, throw $3000 worth of optics on it, and you would be hard pressed, or impossible, to get him up to the systems potential before the barrel is shot out. Then, we need to ask, would it be better to get something that is cheaper, but still an excellent rifle, with the ability to upgrade as things, wants, and desires change over time, or are we dealing with someone who already has a lot of trigger time, and want's a one-and-done rifle? That's my take on this. My first foray into the precision world has been a $750 Remington 700 AAC in 308 with a different trigger and stock, $750 Vortex scope, and I plan on running the factory barrel to it's last rung before I spend any more money. Then, I'll have the factory action sent out and have a barrel and new bolt fitted likely in a different caliber, shoot that one out, THEN I might look at getting a custom action. So far, It's saved me a LOT of money because shit happened after I bought the rifle, and haven't had the time to develop a load for it yet and I'm hard pressed to find the time and a place to stretch it's legs. |
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[#19]
I would highly suggest picking up a factory rifle - (Tikka, Ruger, Savage, Remington and others have 6.5 Creedmoor Target/Tactical guns set up properly). All of them can be upgraded but will outshoot 99.9% of the shooters out there. Do you have access to a 1000 yard range? Or are you shooting at 500 yards? Are you an experienced reloader? Like several have said - your budget is an order of magnitude (I am saying "best" is on the order of 20K once you get the custom rifle, high end glass, reloading equiptment, etc. plus months of waiting) off from absolute best - but $2000 is not far off from having a long range, properly set up rifle, that can grow with you and shoot factory ammo as good as anything else.
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[#20]
Originally Posted By Rob01: You could always get this. Great parts and right at your price point. Better than any factory rifle you will find. https://masterpiecearms.com/shop/mpa-ba-pmr-competition-rifle/ View Quote Again in case OP missed it. For $2000 you are basically getting a custom rifle and won't have to worry about issues with some factory rifles. |
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Sarcasm is an art and I'm painting my master piece
WA, USA
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[#21]
Originally Posted By ShOcKeRpb: It seems to me, the real question would be "What is your background on long-range precision shooting". Take a new shooter with the "best" $6000 rifle, throw $3000 worth of optics on it, and you would be hard pressed, or impossible, to get him up to the systems potential before the barrel is shot out. Then, we need to ask, would it be better to get something that is cheaper, but still an excellent rifle, with the ability to upgrade as things, wants, and desires change over time, or are we dealing with someone who already has a lot of trigger time, and want's a one-and-done rifle? That's my take on this. My first foray into the precision world has been a $750 Remington 700 AAC in 308 with a different trigger and stock, $750 Vortex scope, and I plan on running the factory barrel to it's last rung before I spend any more money. Then, I'll have the factory action sent out and have a barrel and new bolt fitted likely in a different caliber, shoot that one out, THEN I might look at getting a custom action. So far, It's saved me a LOT of money because shit happened after I bought the rifle, and haven't had the time to develop a load for it yet and I'm hard pressed to find the time and a place to stretch it's legs. View Quote If you have the money you would be better off buying a custom rifle and action so when you burn your barrel up you still have a good action. Same with glass if you can afford it get the best money can buy instead of having to buy twice. |
I've been blessed with many things in this life: an arm like a damn rocket, a cock like a burmese python, and the mind of a fucking scientist.
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[#22]
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[#23]
Originally Posted By ShOcKeRpb: It seems to me, the real question would be "What is your background on long-range precision shooting". Take a new shooter with the "best" $6000 rifle, throw $3000 worth of optics on it, and you would be hard pressed, or impossible, to get him up to the systems potential before the barrel is shot out. Then, we need to ask, would it be better to get something that is cheaper, but still an excellent rifle, with the ability to upgrade as things, wants, and desires change over time, or are we dealing with someone who already has a lot of trigger time, and want's a one-and-done rifle? That's my take on this. My first foray into the precision world has been a $750 Remington 700 AAC in 308 with a different trigger and stock, $750 Vortex scope, and I plan on running the factory barrel to it's last rung before I spend any more money. Then, I'll have the factory action sent out and have a barrel and new bolt fitted likely in a different caliber, shoot that one out, THEN I might look at getting a custom action. So far, It's saved me a LOT of money because shit happened after I bought the rifle, and haven't had the time to develop a load for it yet and I'm hard pressed to find the time and a place to stretch it's legs. View Quote Most Shooters IMO...cannot out-shoot an off the shelf, say Ruger American, or a Savage Axis....Assuming the Mounts are properly torqued with good rings and a good optic. Has much more to do with the Indian then the arrow as stated above. A very talented marksmen will out preform me with an off the shelf rifle, no matter how well setup my rig was. |
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[#24]
Originally Posted By Rob01: You could always get this. Great parts and right at your price point. Better than any factory rifle you will find. https://masterpiecearms.com/shop/mpa-ba-pmr-competition-rifle/ View Quote |
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[Last Edit: jaqufrost]
[#25]
How much experience do you have shooting precision rifles?
I wouldn't go all out on your first long range rifle. I would buy a good rifle and burn the barrel out. Maybe do a custom and plan on replacing the barrel in a year or two. ETA: I would look at the Bergara HMR Pro. The MPA mentioned above is another excellent option. |
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Sarcasm is an art and I'm painting my master piece
WA, USA
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[#26]
Originally Posted By Jmo371: Most Shooters IMO...cannot out-shoot an off the shelf, say Ruger American, or a Savage Axis....Assuming the Mounts are properly torqued with good rings and a good optic. Has much more to do with the Indian then the arrow as stated above. A very talented marksmen will out preform me with an off the shelf rifle, no matter how well setup my rig was. View Quote Accuracy is important but those rugers and savages actions feel like trash and dont even compare to tikka or bergara let alone a custom. |
I've been blessed with many things in this life: an arm like a damn rocket, a cock like a burmese python, and the mind of a fucking scientist.
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[Last Edit: Trumpet]
[#27]
Originally Posted By RePp: Accuracy is important but those rugers and savages actions feel like trash and dont even compare to tikka or bergara let alone a custom. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By RePp: Originally Posted By Jmo371: Most Shooters IMO...cannot out-shoot an off the shelf, say Ruger American, or a Savage Axis....Assuming the Mounts are properly torqued with good rings and a good optic. Has much more to do with the Indian then the arrow as stated above. A very talented marksmen will out preform me with an off the shelf rifle, no matter how well setup my rig was. Accuracy is important but those rugers and savages actions feel like trash and dont even compare to tikka or bergara let alone a custom. This. My first centerfire bolt guns were 700P/PSS. After that I had a GAP rifle. While the first rifles were just factory actions, the GAP was factory trued, but still a Remington action. A Couple years ago, I went to the fun shop and got to finger bang a RPR. I thought that it would be nice since they were "higher end" Rugers. When I worked the action, it felt like a cheese grater scraping on the curb. Every now and then I see them for great sale prices, but then I remember that action.......that action. |
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[#28]
COOPER
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[#29]
Originally Posted By Texas_Sig: How much do I need to spend to get the top-of-the-line? View Quote There are MANY quality LR rifle builders out there. Buy Accuracy International and sleep well at night. I know of one of many rifles that has over 40,000 rounds on the action and STILL shoots well enough to win matches. Barrels are readily available and they come in many different configurations. For a "lifetime" rifle spend the 10-11K and do it right. Buy once and don't cry. |
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[#30]
Originally Posted By ACEB36TC: There are MANY quality LR rifle builders out there. Buy Accuracy International and sleep well at night. I know of one of many rifles that has over 40,000 rounds on the action and STILL shoots well enough to win matches. Barrels are readily available and they come in many different configurations. For a "lifetime" rifle spend the 10-11K and do it right. Buy once and don't cry. View Quote LOL most won’t put near that on any rifle. My original 700 action from 1993 has had 7 .308 barrels on it And well over 50,000 rounds and still in the safe shooting as accurately as ever. Jacob’s AI has over 100,000 rounds On it and going. Most actions out there will give shooters a lifetime of shooting. AI are good but have their downsides too. A buddy bought one as he bought into the hype and hated it. Sold it and built a custom. So they aren’t for everyone. |
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[#31]
+1 for tikka. 1/2moa out of the box. Only downside is a little bit slower FPS than some aftermarket barrels. Really only matters if you shoot matches or something.
Attached File Attached File |
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[#32]
I’m going to play devils advocate here and say if you’re just starting out with long range shooting and are new to your caliber of choice don’t worry about the best. Start with a good rifle like the Rem 5r or Bergara or Tikka and a good optic and start having fun shooting it. As you grow in knowledge and skill you might decide to upgrade to a better rig but the best of the best rifles won’t make an average shooter shoot better if they don’t have practice time behind the rifle. Get a good rifle put together now and upgrade as you outgrow it.
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[#33]
I would be looking at bench rest actions like a Panda.
My varmint rifle is a Panda action, right bolt, left port, single shot. I have a .22-250 AI barrel and a 6mm REM AI barrel. I can swap barrels at the range if I want to. It is deadly on groundhogs out to over 400 yards. |
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[#34]
FYI Cabelas had the Bergara on sale right now
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[#35]
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[Last Edit: Trumpet]
[#36]
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[#37]
Tikka, Bergara, Remington and the words best don’t go together. Are they bad? Not at all they the Bergara and Tikka represent a tremendous value and they are damn accurate. Who makes the best is pretty subjective but it’s not those guys.
Cadex, GAP, Sako ( yes I know they own Tikka) Accuracy international, McMillian, MPA, Steyr, Surgeon, are all available to be mailed tomorrow from Eurooptic. So that’s just off the shelf. I think these days it’s a lot like AR’s. With the tolerances being held you can do a Mausingfield or similar with a shouldered prefit or Remage from home. A Zermatt Origin barreled action with a Proof steel barrel is under $1600 Add in a TriggerTech Diamond MPA chassis and your at 3k. That setup will run with anything out there including Sako TRG’s etc |
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“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying all the wrong remedies.” G. Marx
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[#38]
Yeah, I got my 6mm HMR for $799 on gunbroker. I'm tempted to get a Pro sometime.
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[#39]
Originally Posted By minion42: That's a super general question. Absolute "best?" Probably a custom. Off-the-shelf "best?" I'd say Tikka hands down. Most of us don't need "the best." Frankly only the top shooters at the matches are actually squeezing that potential out of a gun. Get a Bergara HMR or a Tikka CTR or Tac A1 and learn to shoot. You'd be surprised what those will do. From the question I'm assuming you're new to this, meaning what I said is even more true. It's the Indian, not the arrow. View Quote True story. Based on the budget it's worth looking at a Tikka T3x 24" with a KRG bravo would be a great option to keep you under $1400 for entry, giving you room for a trigger upgrade, scope rail, appropriate rings and then optic. You might be able to stay under $2300 if you qualify for some of the discounts on the Vortex Strike Eagle 5-25 FFP. |
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[#40]
Originally Posted By Texas_Sig: Around $2000 for the rifle. I'm interested in something that will take advantage of the full range of the 6.5 CM round. View Quote Get this is custom and you can build it at home, or order from Altus shooting and pay 35 buck for them to assemble it. big horn origin action 825 Proof prefit barrel 479 Trigger tech special 189 Mdt xrs 499 Grand total if you buy everything new $1992. No smith fee in the future when you want to swap barrels either. |
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[#41]
consistently precise : https://www.gaprecision.net/rifles-ready-to-ship.html/
i have two of their rifles. sadly they don't have anything 6.5 creed-m instock for you |
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[#42]
Originally Posted By AR-180: There are tons of great rifles, builders, and calibers. 6.5 bullets offer a lot of capability. Over 90% of shooters would be better off with a $1,000 rifle, training, range fees, ammo, entry fees, and trigger time. Find a mentor if you don’t have one. You’ll grow much faster with a mentor or training partner. View Quote This is very sound advice as you may find that long range shooting isn't for you. If you get a good quality rifle and an equally quality scope, you can generally recoup most of your cost if you find that LR shooting isn't for you. But if you buy a custom rifle you limit your pool of people that may want to buy it should you change your mind about wanting to shoot LR. Also, something that is often overlooked that is very critical for improvement in long range shooting is a good data/log book. Every shoot needs to be logged with point of hold & point of impact. It will help show problems real quick and what you need to do to fix them. I went to a training class once with my 1980's era M24 that had thousands and thousands of rounds through it. I put close to 30K through that rifle while it was issued to me. There was a guy who showed up with a brand new AI rifle, suppressor, Swarovski scope, rangefinder and spotting scope. My guess is his department spent close to $10K on his kit. Even with all the top shelf kit he struggled to hit targets past 200 yards. Where I knew my rifle because I shot the daylights out of it, I could make first or second round hits on targets out to 1160 yards with out much trouble. |
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[#43]
For $800 I'm pretty happy with my Bergara. Makes a great LR starter rifle.
Attached File Attached File |
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[#44]
Originally Posted By GONIF: Inflation has gone through the roof . I paid $3209.00 out the door for a brand new 1969 Z28 in 1969. Gold was $35.00 an oz in 1970 . A dollar isn't worth a damn any more. IMHO I would buy a Bargara ,Tikka or the like and develop a great had load for it and practice until I got better than the rifle and then go custom if you need . You can always sell it if you can't ring out the performance you want. View Quote ehh, $3209 in 1969 is about $22700 today and camaros start at $25000 now, so its pretty dang similar. |
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[#45]
Originally Posted By 65CM: ehh, $3209 in 1969 is about $22700 today and camaros start at $25000 now, so its pretty dang similar. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By 65CM: Originally Posted By GONIF: Inflation has gone through the roof . I paid $3209.00 out the door for a brand new 1969 Z28 in 1969. Gold was $35.00 an oz in 1970 . A dollar isn't worth a damn any more. IMHO I would buy a Bargara ,Tikka or the like and develop a great had load for it and practice until I got better than the rifle and then go custom if you need . You can always sell it if you can't ring out the performance you want. ehh, $3209 in 1969 is about $22700 today and camaros start at $25000 now, so its pretty dang similar. The 69 Z28 was a higher end model not a base V6. A 2ss v8 is about 40k and a ZL1 is mid 60s. Is what it is but inflation is a issue. Not many single income families these days. |
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“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying all the wrong remedies.” G. Marx
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[#46]
Originally Posted By Texas_Sig: The title says it all. I am considering a precision bolt rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor. View Quote Look into some of the Bench Rest actions. Panda from Kelbly's is great. Borden Actions have a good reputation. The Panda is so well made I can call and get a barrel in another chambering and screw it on. All they need is the serial number of my action. |
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[#47]
Bergara Premier. Either the LRP or the HMR Pro. It will surprise you.
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What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women!
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[#48]
If you can operate a wrench,
American Rifle Company Nucleus- $1000 Trigger Tech special- $185 KRG Bravo S/A- $350 MDT 12 rnd magazines- $85 ea. Criterion Savage pre-fit barrel- $320 barrel nut- $25-50 Several folks make aftermarket barrel nuts that are more asthetically pleasing than the savage nut. Patriot valley arms, Bugholes, etc... There may be some auxiliary tooling, barrel vise, savage nut wrench, action wrench, etc.. that you might want to get, and rent/borrow a GO gauge to install the barrel but it's not that hard. You'll have a rifle that's plenty capable for PRS/NRL style shooting. Ought to come in right around the $2000 mark. Accuracy is in bullets and barrels. Criterions shoot great, but if you're scared you can get savage pre-fits from Bartlein blanks from Bugholes, too. Will shoot just as good as anything else. |
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[#49]
CZ makes some very nice rifled for great prices. Their 2-stage adjustable trigger on their 550's is insane!
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[#50]
Clearly a bunch of good alternatives. Right now my favorite precision rife is a Tikka CTR in 6.5CM. Rifle was under $1000. Replaced the stock with an XLR chassis. Spent $10 on a YoDave spring with brought the trigger down to under 2 pounds. Total cost, less than $1600. Have repeatedly shot this rifle out to 800 yards with great success.
Slightly higher end alternative - Sako TRG. You can pick one up on sale at Euro Optic for about $2500. Also, have to admit those Masterpiece Arms rifles look awfully sweet for the price, but don't know anything about them. I know both the Tikka and the Sako are capable of 1/2 MOA. Are the Masterpiece also shooters? Oh, one final off beat suggestion. If you can find one used the Sig SSG3000 are outstanding shooters. I can fairly consistently shoot 10 round 1" groups at 100 yards with factory ammo. Not a huge fan of the stock though, and it's hard to find aftermarket anything for this rifle. New they cost $1500 and could often be had for less. If you can find one used for under $1000 you will definitely have a shooter. |
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