Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Posted: 5/9/2021 12:33:59 PM EDT
Every year I revamp my long range precision rifle training course syllabi to make sure and keep up with technology and best practices and new gear etc... This year is no different in that respect but it is different in that I know for sure that there's something I'm not including and I can't figure it out. I've gone over it and over it and I know there's a gap but it's a gap that I can't see. It's like a missing picture on a wall and I don't know that the picture was or not being able to spot the tree you're interested in because the whole forest is in the way. Rather than discuss what my courses include or asking for what your idea course would look like, I'd like to ask the homies a simpler question, "What single topic or concept or fact would you in hindsight have found really really helpful in shortening your journey from noob to proficient long range rifleman?" What I'm looking for are the things that became known to you later than you, with hindsight, would prefer. Things that made the whole thing much much simpler.

Let me give some examples:
At one class I gave I told a student "You're hitting consistently low, come up 3 clicks and send one." The next shot was about 15 mils over the target. He thought a click was a rotation. When I told him, "You apparently turned 3 rotations. A click is when that dial clicks 1 time. It's the smallest adjustment you can make." and he got this look on his face like he simultaneously had a light bulb turn on over the top of his head and like he died inside just a little bit. He had not been told what a click was and was genuinely trying to do what he was told to but he didn't know what he didn't know. I later took him off the line and we talked scopes for a half hour so he understood about them.

I had another student who consistently said that he could not shoot from prone because of his back. Since the artificially supported prone position shouldn't really involve your back almost at all when done correctly I was sure that he was doing something wrong. I asked him to show me how he slept, and he laid down on his back without a wince. I asked him to roll over onto his belly and he didn't wince. So I slowly worked one little move at a time to get a rifle in front of him and him positioned correctly. Instead of using his rifle though, I used mine so he wouldn't be tempted to fuck with any settings and if he was, I'd definitely notice. After it was fully set up and he wasn't griping about back pain I asked if there was any discomfort and he said no. I got him to send a few rounds and he was fine. Then he got his rifle and proned behind it and almost immediately started complaining of pain in his back and the reason was obvious. His bipod was extended so high that he had to bend the absolute hell out of his middle back to mount it if he was not going to be doing anti-aircraft shooting. I lowered his bipod and taught him about starting the bipod as low as it'll go and coming up as needed and he was fine for the rest of the class. He didn't know that bipods weren't just meant to be extended to maximum height right off the bat and assumed that if they could extend that they should be fully extended.

You can see that these things are seemingly so obvious that nobody could screw it up but obviously that's not the case. So...

What things would you have liked to learn earlier than you did or did you have completely misunderstood until much later? It doesn't have to be about form or how to use gear. It could be about ducks and drakes for all I care as long as it was important to you learning and becoming self-sufficient as a long range shooter.  
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 5:52:05 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 5/10/2021 4:04:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ArmorerRoy] [#2]
I have taught a lot of precision shooters. I always start with body position and eye relief. If you're not comfortable behind the scope you are doing it wrong.

I always start with the basics and build on each principle. A to B to C principle. The worst students are the ones that swear they know the basics and want to start at like G and they usually end up back at A because their rifle loses zero or they can't hit 600 yard targets. Turns out to be a huge waste of time. So if you're stubborn I won't train you. Humble yourself or go elsewhere.

The difference between basic, intermediate, and advanced training is the level of understanding of the student.

A trend I blame on YouTube is that most people now want to learn the tricks of the trade without actually learning the trade.

The examples you gave tell me you don't have a formal teaching style. That appears to me to be what you are looking for.
Link Posted: 5/11/2021 11:36:29 AM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rob01:


Call the corrections in their actual graduations would help. Say .3 mils up or 3/4 MOA and not clicks. I hate the word clicks when using it for corrections and tell that to my students in the past and have them talk in either MOA or mils so no confusion.
View Quote
This is good and correct. I do switch back and forth as necessary in practice. When writing question clicks is just faster to type than a parenthetical option set and I expect y'all kinda know intuitively what I'm talking about. Nonetheless, 100% agree. It's critical for shooter/spotter team communication.
Link Posted: 5/11/2021 12:14:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ballisticxlr] [#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ArmorerRoy:
I have taught a lot of precision shooters. I always start with body position and eye relief. If you're not comfortable behind the scope you are doing it wrong.

I always start with the basics and build on each principle. A to B to C principle. The worst students are the ones that swear they know the basics and want to start at like G and they usually end up back at A because their rifle loses zero or they can't hit 600 yard targets. Turns out to be a huge waste of time. So if you're stubborn I won't train you. Humble yourself or go elsewhere.

The difference between basic, intermediate, and advanced training is the level of understanding of the student.

A trend I blame on YouTube is that most people now want to learn the tricks of the trade without actually learning the trade.

The examples you gave tell me you don't have a formal teaching style. That appears to me to be what you are looking for.
View Quote

Style I think is not relevant. Style is perona/gravitas. Curriculum is about content. Perhaps definitions are different between us there and we're talking at crossed purposes. I have a quite well developed curriculum which works essentially the same as you, build from basics. There's such a thing as editorial selection though or every class would take 10 days. So some things you may only say rather than demonstrate. The question I'm asking really is about unknown unknowns. What did we as experienced and frequently trained long range marksmen, wish we'd learned earlier or what thing did you or your students misunderstand for the longest which was a surprise to you.
Link Posted: 5/11/2021 12:47:58 PM EDT
[#5]
You said you weren't going to go into everything you teach in your class, so my reply will cover a lot of "basic" stuff you probably already cover:

Ballistics - path of the bullet as opposed to line of sight

How a scope works, MOA vs Mil-dot, what is parallax, field of view, magnification, hold-over, bullet drop, ranging, and a whole bunch of other things.

wind adjustments, how to gauge the wind without a lot of fancy tools

load selection, caliber selection

Shooting through glass, bullet deflection

Shooting positions, prone, kneeling, sitting, bench, standing, standing supported, sling use (very often ignored due to so much prone shooting)

Bag use, different types of bags, different fill materials if you make your own bag, bi-pod vs front bag or other support.

I see this with AR's in 3 gun, but have never seen it with precision rifle yet, "What happens if your gun can't be straight up and down?"  How does this change the accuracy and in what way due to gravity and the scope/crosshairs being different.  Turn the rifle 90 degrees left and the shot will go low and left, turn it 90 degrees right and it will go low and right, etc.

Cleaning your rifle, what to do and what not to do

how to work the bolt without losing your cheekweld

I'll keep thinking and come back.
Link Posted: 5/11/2021 2:46:03 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 5/11/2021 4:31:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rob01:


You been peeking at my PR1 curriculum? LOL Pretty much all we cover and a little more. We don;t cover the 90 degree rifle though as that would be in another class. It happens at matches from time to time and knowing the hold for it helps.
View Quote


Nope, no peeking...

You said what would we want to make sure was covered in the basics and this is about it.  Taking into account I'm often dealing with people who don't WANT to be in a class but were sent to it by their Admin.  I think most private instructors have the advantage of having people who sign up because they want to go and it makes them eager to learn, even if it doesn't make them knowledgeable.   It's even harder when you have someone who is unmotivated and admits to a lack of knowledge, but has no desire to learn it or retain it.

While typing this I also though about having them do the paper/wall test to determine eye dominance as well.  Also the components of a cartridge, what happens with hit when the trigger is pulled, and why as long as you hold still until that point the gun moving afterwards is normal and won't affect where the bullet goes.  Cold bore/clean bore/fouled bore/warm bore, etc.  Mirage, eye-relief, still thinking.  
Link Posted: 5/11/2021 6:37:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 5/11/2021 7:51:00 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rob01:


You been peeking at my PR1 curriculum? LOL Pretty much all we cover and a little more. We don;t cover the 90 degree rifle though as that would be in another class. It happens at matches from time to time and knowing the hold for it helps.
View Quote


Where are you in NC? I'd like to take a class but the best rifle I have is a PSA 308 so I'll need a rental
Link Posted: 5/11/2021 8:33:55 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 5/11/2021 9:43:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By iiibdsiil:


Where are you in NC? I'd like to take a class but the best rifle I have is a PSA 308 so I'll need a rental
View Quote


Nothing wrong with a PSA 308, as long as you find a load it likes.  I shot my 1st precision class with a DPMS LR308, the gun would do its part as long as I did mine.
Link Posted: 5/12/2021 8:30:33 AM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 11/17/2021 12:25:12 AM EDT
[#13]
How to fill out a data book so you can actually use the data later in study.  I think accurately filling out a data book is missed far too often.
Link Posted: 11/17/2021 9:21:41 PM EDT
[#14]
Ergonomics.  Mounting the scope and proper eye relief, especially in the prone.  The importance of a stock that aligns the eye with the axis of the scope, especially in the prone.  The use of ballistic calculators/apps.  Explanation of MOA and Mil.  Scope reticles.  Use and abuse of magnification (getting lost in the scope).  Calling and adjusting for wind.
Link Posted: 11/29/2021 4:32:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SpeyRod] [#15]
I am not an instructor, more of a hack. But there are definitely thing I think all instructors today need to keep at the forefront of their mind. Our industry and sport has grown exponentially. That is an excellent thing and needs to be nurtured for the future of our sport. The problem is that many of us who have been doing this a long time forget what we know automatically.

With that said, new shooters to any discipline are often hesitant to ask questions and/or worse assume they know the answers.

At our 600 us shoot yesterday we had a newbie. He didn’t know that a 1 moa adjustment did not equal 1” at 600 yds. We cleared that up and he got it. Then he had a hard time getting on steel. We looked at his ammo, S&B bulk ammo with fmj’s. I explained that it was good for maybe 3 moa and that that equals roughly 18” at 600. There was a lot more going on and I tried to help where I could.

I guess I am saying, take nothing for granted in an introductory course.

Explain how bullet/load selection affects hit percentages.

Explain how twist rate affects the equation. I owned a 260 Lija barreled rifle that shot lights out with 123 & 130 bullets. I couldn’t get a 140 or heavier to shoot well no matter what I did.

Explain trigger pull and follow through.

Explain that this is supposed to be fun! Challenging yes. Difficult at time? Yes. But always remember this is supposed to be fun!

The basics can be covered very quickly and covering them doesn’t put anyone on the spot for not knowing them.

A bit of a ramble but my main concern today is keeping new shooters safe and having fun.
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top