I recently ran into a Weatherby Vanguard clearance sale at Walmart. For whatever reason Walmart will no longer be selling them and they were reduced to 249.99. These are Gen 2's not old stock and they are all Deluxe models. I robbed the piggy bank and bought a .308 Win a .243 Win (short action) and a .270 Win (long action). For those that aren't familiar with Weatherby's, they are now all made by Howa in Japan. The Vanguard is similar in many ways to the Howa 1500.

All three of these calibers have good potential in a precision rifle and the G2's are suppose to shoot sub moa out of the box. I just finished fully bedding (pillars also) and free floating my Weatherby Mark V .257 WM and it shoots beautiful even with factory ammo. I haven't had a chance to work up a load for it yet.

So has anyone done one yet and if so what did you do and what were the results.

Thanks
The rifle with the scope is my Mark V.

Define precision.

My experience with them is they are accurate enough to kill lots of critters and I've known some shooters that could shoot them accurately enough to take big game at 600-700 yards. Especially the .243.

Good score in my opinion.

So, the .308 and the .243 are probably both good candidates for 1000 yard target guns. That's the level of precision I'd like to work towards and I'd like to be consistently hitting targets at 1000 yards.  Or... either one could be a 6.5 Creedmore with a barrel change. The barrel threads are metric but I think Lilja makes barrels for the Howa 1500 which is the same as the Vanguard. The stock on the .243 is already broken so I did order a Hogue over molded fully bedded stock for it. It's a definite upgrade but not of the McMillan or Boyd class.

I would actually say the .270 is going to be your best long range performer.  Never looked at NV evvironmentals but it’s tough to 1k with a .308 here.  I’m seeing 1:10 twist on that .243, Walmart seems to have their own runs/models on some stuff so fingers crossed for you that it’s faster.  The barrel contours on all of them aren’t helping your intended use.

Dont take this as me being a smartass: you’re best route is to sell those three rifles for a profit with deer season coming up, cancel the order on the extra stock, take the money the 6.5 rebarreling would cost; and order a (in order of my choice spending your money) PVA John Hancock, Bergara, or Ruger RPR.

You're probably right about selling them. Only problem is that I love my guns and I hate selling them. I even keep the crappy ones that I never shoot. LOL..

They seem more like hunting rifles than precision rifles to me.  They may shoot very well, and put a nice group together at 100 yards, but with twist rates and barrel profile they don't appear to be set up for strings of accurate precise fire.

Correct, the action and triggers are excellent and they use the same barrel threads as a Howa 1500. Lilja makes barrels for those so for 249.00 I got a good action, bolt and trigger which using my math, is pretty darn good. The stocks are Monte Carlo with a slight palm swell and the lug is bedded in Acraglass but it's not a fully bedded bench shooters stock so that will have to go. I'm going to keep the 270 Win for hunting if it shoots decent. The .308 will get a fully bedded stock also but I think I'll concentrate on the .243 (6mm) as the one that I want to accurize. Lilja makes a barrel for it and I think Krieger will also make one.

The idea is not to accurize a 249.00 rifle but to build a match grade rifle using a Weatherby Vanguard/Howa 1500 action that I got at a really good price. Does that make more sense now?

I've seen some weatherby's shoot really well, but that's more the barrel installed on them than anything.  Any gunsmith that can do metric threads and knows what they are doing can make them a shooter.

Lilja makes it pretty clear on their website that those are not drop-in prefits.  I wouldn’t spend the time taking all those measurements (with separate hardware than Lilja is using) just to get a barrel that has to go to a gunsmith anyways.  Unless you have a lathe you plan on using yourself for final fit up and finishing of the length and muzzle end.  The threading price they are referencing is the tenon, you are getting the muzzle end completely unfinished.

I get that you saved money on the action versus a custom or trued r700, but you’re giving a lot of that back in a limited selection of compatible parts to play with later, let alone getting deals on used equipment you want to try out.  If you build a custom rifle off that action, you will give more back in lost resale value from the undesirable action pattern on the whole package than you saved.

You make some valid points but I don't always agree with valid points. I've already moved off the .243 idea and will do the .308 instead. I just swapped the Griptonite stock out and will put the fully bedded Hogue on it instead of the .243. The Griptonite stocks have no bedding whatsoever so the other two rifles will probably get the same Hogue stocks as the .308 IF I like them and the performance is there. Just looking at the Griptonite stocks I can see why some of these rifles never get to 1 MOA. If I was to keep them, I'd pillar bed them fully if MarineTex will stick to them. As for what the Lilja barrels come with, if you've ever ordered a barrel from them you know that you can get whatever you want to pay for. I do have a Lathe and an End Mill so I can usually make what ever I might need but sometimes it's less expensive to buy stuff.

If you want to change out the barrel - Criterion is now offering pre-fit barrels that use a barrel nut like Savage & Ruger do.

http://criterionbarrels.com/howa-prefit-barrel

There is a growing interest in the Howa 1500 (Vanguard), and more companies are offering products for them.  Check out the KRG Bravoe Chassis, it's a great option.

Have fun,
Bob S.

Thanks, that's the info I've been looking for!

Looking at the Howa website I found I can get a new trigger guard that's modified to handle a 10 round mag. It's drop in for Howa 1500's and Weatherby Vanguards. That's cool. I can also get barrels from Howa that are ready to go and head spaced to match my bolt. That's also cool. And last but not least, the recommended performance stock upgrade is in fact the Hogue over molded fully bedded model. They make two, one is pillar bedded and the other is a full aluminum frame. I have the full on order and it should be here this week. I ordered the 10 round mag last night but I have not decided on the barrel yet. FYI, the barrel swap is pretty simple. I have a barrel vise and a giant crescent wrench that gets the job done with ease.

I'm doing the .308 as a combination hunting/bench gun.

Got the Hogue stock today. It is in fact fully bedded with pillar posts. I didn't weigh it but it feels lighter. I like the rubbery feel, it reminds me of my Browning 300 WSM Hells Canyon Speed. I only had a bipod mount for a cheap bipod that I had. I have to order one for my Atlas and then I'll put that on it. Timney trigger is on order and Vanguard Rings/Bases from Weatherby will replace the ones I have on it now. I put the Swarovski VX5 3 x 18 - 50mm long range scope on it.

It will be a while before it's shooting good groups, the Weatherby break in is 10 rounds with a cleaning after each round followed by 30 rounds of 3 round groups with a cleaning between each group. I wonder how many Vanguard owners actually did the correct break in before complaining about the rifles accuracy.. LOL

It's Friday!!!!  Just got the Howa mag conversion from Legacy Sports. It is plastic as I suspected and I'm not fond of that but it seems to function well with dummy rounds. I also got the Atlas bipod mount and got it installed. At this point it's done. I just need to follow the Weatherby break in procedures and then see what she'll do.

Not sure if I just put lipstick on a pig or not.

That’s a game changer for Howa. Just telling my coworker who snagged one that barrel swaps are spendy because of the labor involved. Now that’s a non issue.

Yes and others like Lilja are testing the waters also. All you need is a proper barrel vise and a big crescent wrench and you can change them yourself.

What criterion is offering is totally different than Lilja. Lilja barrels need to be fit which usually involves a lathe. You actually remove material until headspace is correct.
The Criterion barrel comes threaded for a barrel nut just like Savage and a finished chamber. You screw it in or out of the action to achieve final headspace.

McGowan is also offering a "Howage" replacement barrel...

http://mcgowenbarrel.com/the-howage/

I too believe that this will only make the Howa jump in sales - they make a solid gun.  I did the DIY trigger spring coil cut, and the trigger is great.

I took my 6.5 Creedmoor out to the range yesterday - factory Hornady AG ammo was always under 1" and as small as .47 (3 shot groups) - this is with less than 50 rounds down the barrel so far.

Have a good weekend,
Bob S.

Thanks Bob, Howa also sells barrels through Brownells. Those appear to be direct replacement barrels. The heavy barrels seem to be out of stock right now.

Took the rifle out to the range and did the 3 hour 40 round Weatherby break in. Here a pic of the last three rounds.

I bought a 30-06 Vanguard rifle on sale as well. I know this is bringing up an older thread, but I wanted to thank you for doing this. I had pipe dreams of 1,000 with the Vanguard (my first bolt-action) but this thread really gave me a good grounding with my dreams and gave me info about how long I should expect. Also gave me a limit on how much glass I should buy. And for that I am grateful.

I'm tagging this thread with this message so I can follow up with you later to see how it all ended up.

nvrmnd

FWIW, Legacy Sports also sells a clamp-on aluminum bolt knob. I've got one and it's solid and inexpensive.

I haven't been out with it since the break in. We've been in a Red Flag fire danger situation up until yesterday when we finally got some rain. I have the Swarovski long range 3x18 scope on it so next time out, I'll stretch it's legs and see what she'll do. I still have to do the break in on the 270 and .243 and I just bought a new Mark V .257 WM to replace the one I was trying to restore. The barrel is in pretty rough shape and at 800.00 to replace it, it just didn't make sense so I bought a new one.

I wouldn’t waste much time with break in just shoot and go.

Nah, the .308 is already broken in according to Weatherby break in procedures. Takes 3 hours to complete and you can watch it come into it's own as the break in progresses. I always thought it wasn't all that necessary too but after actually following directions for probably the first time in my life, I'm now convinced that there is really something to it.

Whatever floats your boat. It’s pretty much shown to be worthless especially on factory mass produced rifles. There are exceptions like Tubbs final finish or the like but just cleaning and shooting isn’t going to drastically change your gun in a way that normally shooting it would.

I’ve done a proper break in before and will most likely never again do so.

Whatever floats your boat. That's funny.. Haven't heard that in years. You're probably right, McMillan say's shoot it clean it shoot 3 clean it and your done with their rifles. I have one of their G30 (short action) 270 WSM Dynastys. That's what I did and it's a tack driver. Weatherby wants the 40 round break in and I don't mind doing it so I'll do it. Winchester goes with the same as McMillan and my 30-06 shoots good. Thompson/Center and MGA both want a more extensive break in with a 20 round total. My 7mm Rem Mag and .308 barrels shoot well while the .500 barrel is close enough at 100 yards. My JP Rifle .223 Wylde and 224 Valkrie had minimal break in and they both shoot very well but they are also match grade. My Bishop 3G 5.56 got minimal break in also and it's very accurate but then again, it's a match grade barrel. My Noveske 5.56 battle rattle gun shoots well and I just bought it and shot it.

In summary, you're probably right but hey, I'm retired and I have plenty of time to follow directions.

I've always loved the Weatherby Vanguard series of rifles.

Much better overall fit/finish than Remington rifles.

Glad to see more aftermarket support for them.

I'm seriously considering turning my 30-06 Vanguard into a 280AI.

Or I might just buy a barreled 7mm RM action from Brownells.

I love all things 7mm.

I think the biggest improvement is in the stock. I went with the Hogue Fully Bedded on all three of my Vanguards and put a Timney trigger on the .308. I'm not sure the trigger change was necessary. The factory triggers seem quite predictable and smooth which is the way I prefer them.

The rifle shot good with the Hogue stock. Much better than the Deluxe stock it came with. Well as the story usually goes, you always think the grass is greener so I put a Boyds At-One stock on it. As per Weatherby's advice I added a tension point to the forend when I bedded it and it shoots like crap now. Well it's not that bad and acceptable for a hunting rifle but I have Mark V Weatherby Magnums, (257, 6.5-300 and a 300) that out shoot this thing. I does look great though. I'm going back to the Hogue. The rifle in the back is my Bergara B-14 HMR.

Is the hogue stock free floated? I think I’m going with the fully bedded stock myself

Yes, the Hogue is free floated. So is the Boyds but it lacks any pillar posting which may or may not help due to the depth of tang inlet. The Hogue is basically a full chassis over molded with Hogue style rubber. Weatherby's gun shop said they found that the Vanguards with the #2 contour barrels shoot better with a forward tension point and highly recommended doing it. I love the look of the Boyds and may spend a day seeing if I can't mirror the tension points of the factory stock. If that doesn't work I'll go back to the Hogue.

Yea that Boyd’s stock looks freaking sweet.

Just thought I'd update a bit on the Boyd's stock.

I spent the day yesterday removing all the bedding I had done on the Boyds and then begin cleaning up the inletting. The Boyd's stocks are milled so many of the corners that should be straight cut are rounded and although the action fit's tight to the stock, mine was not applying pressure to the action equally. I noticed it when I was measuring the straightness of the barrel in relation to the barrel inlet. In addition, the stock is not pillar posted but with the way the action fits to the stock some will say it is not necessary. I'm one of those that believed that but now that the action is properly inlet I rescind that thought.

Brownells is now offering the stock bedding kit for the Weatherby Vanguards/Howa 1500's so that was a big influence on my decision to move forward with improving the Boyd's stock. Having the right tools instead of trying to rig stuff up is always a big plus.

As a side note, the tension point that I added because Weatherby said it was needed turns out to be not needed. In fact, a .030 clearance free float of the barrel seems to be producing better results according to many random sources. I took a close look at the original molded stock and I could not find any tensioning points but it was still guaranteed to shoot sub-moa. I would imagine you could get away with .020 clearance on the H-Bar and fluted barrel since they oscillate less then the #2 contour hunting barrels.

One last change: I ordered new bottom metal from PTG to replace the plastic Howa kit that I got from Howa. I believe that this will allow me to get the 55 inch lbs of torque on the action screws that I'll want the pillar bedding is done.

Oh and for those that think I'm spending more on this rifle than it's worth, your might be right. However, money is not the issue. It's more about seeing if I have the skills to figure this out and make it into something it was never intended to be.

I got my receiver blueprinting tools and dies from PTG. They are now making a kit for the Howa 1500/Weatherby Vanguard. I blueprinted the receiver and trued the bolt face. I did buy a reamer also which was good because the head space was .001 shy of go with a go gauge, A couple of turns with the reamer and we were golden.

Next I bedded the entire action and the chamber portion of the barrel. The remainder of the barrel is bedded at .030 relieved. I used the Wheeler Bedrock bedding kit and had plenty of epoxy to do the entire job. Not a bad deal if you only have one rifle to do but if you have several, you can buy the epoxy, hardener, filler, release agent and tints from West Marine for a lot cheaper.

Boyd's stocks have a recess milled into the fore end that I filled with a piece of 1/4" 6061 H32 aluminum flat stock that I milled to fit and then epoxied in prior to bedding. That took all the flex out of the fore end. I then lowered the area around the recoil lug by 1/4" and cut three 1/8 x1/4" slots into the first 2" of the fore end (chamber area). Doing that ensures that the recoil lug and chamber of the barrel have a good solid epoxy base rather than just a thin layer.

I make my own pillar posts from 5/8" 6061 Aluminum bar stock and mill the bottom end to 2.5 degrees. If you buy them that's typically what they are. I mill out the original stock screw holes to 9/16 which gives enough room for the epoxy. If you're buying yours, make sure you get the adjustable ones or you'll need an end mill to get them to the exact length and they do need to be exact. Too short and you'll pull the tang of the action down and your bolt will not cycle properly.

After curing for 24 hours, I popped it apart and cleaned it up. If you're careful and thoughtful when you put your modeling clay in, the cleanup job is pretty easy. I used my Dremel and had it all done in about 15 minutes (not including removing the modeling clay).

To finish it all off, polished the crown with 320 grit lapping compound.

The end result is what feels like an entirely new rifle. Solid from end to end. If you slap it anywhere, there is not even a hint of vibration. If it wasn't snowing, I'd be out on the range with it but I'll have to wait.  It does not look any different then it did before so I won't post another picture.

Probably talking to myself here but hey, what the heck...

I had previously bought a Howa 1500 Magazine conversion and installed it but it was poly and I didn't think that it was up to par for a bedded and pillar post rifle. I ordered the PTG version which is Aluminum and in AICS format. I started inletting for the install with the Dremel but quickly switched to the end mill when I realized I had to do more fitting than I thought. I also re-bedded some of the area in the bottom metal inlet. Probably didn't have to but I did.

PTG tells you up front that you will likely need to do some fitting so I expected it. If you buy one of these thinking they are going to be drop and don't have the skills or tools to fit them then don't buy it.

The one thing I screwed up on was ordering magazines. I ordered AICS mags from Amazon but didn't verify the part numbers and what I got was 7.62x51 mags. I only ordered 2 and I have another .308 that they'll fit so I'll keep them even though I don't need them. I ended up going to Midway and getting the correct mags.

Don't worry I'm listening. Got my vanguard in a boyds pro varment stock but yet to shoot it since then. Seems like an overall better setup.

More listeners than you think.

I've run a bunch of variable handloads through my Vanguard in .308.

Been a lesson in aggravation, as I'm nearing 60 and been reloading a long time.

I've had several combo's come in .25 and below and every time the load never came close to repeating.

I bedded my action and scope rail and it looks pretty good.

Shot 2 different scope set ups.

I've backed off my initial hopes of a sub 1/2" MOA gun.

I will settle for a consistent 3/4" gun.

Currently shooting 175gr. Sierra MK with 42.3gr IMR 4064 over Lapua brass, fired by Federal 210M-2.820 COAL(spent a lot of time on length)

Went round and round with 165-168gr bullets with no repeatable groups.

I have a 300 Win. mag, based off a Remington action I shoot consistently under 1/4 MOA, out to and past 1000yds with, it's a precision rifle, I don't think I can get to where I'll call the Weatherby the same.

I know--unreal expectations of a $250 rifle....

No regrets, likely have spent more in components than original gun purchase

Oh yeah, I'm way over budget on mine.. LOL..

Cool, I went with the At-One because it's their production stock and I thought I could get it faster. I like it but the more you work on it the more you notice the sloppy work. I guess I'm a little too picky.

If your stock has that 5/8" wide slot in the barrel channel like mine does, you can fill it in with a piece of 1/4" aluminum flat bar cut to fit and tapered at the rear then epoxy that in. It adds a lot of stiffness to the for end.

Jeweled the bolt yesterday. I dropped my last Damascus stone and it broke so I had to use the brush/lapping compound method which pretty much sucks but it works. Some people think it's wasted time trying to make a rifle bolt look pretty but what they don't understand is that the jeweling serves to hold a thin layer of lubricant that helps to prevent corrosion.

I think I'm going to put this project on hold for awhile. I have a new Mark V Threat Response Rifle that will make a much better platform for a precision .308 rifle. That is a 2002-2004 rifle that I found new in box at a local sporting goods shop. Guy didn't even know he had it until he got audited by ATF and they found it in the back room inventory. SniperCentral say's they shoot 1/2 moa out of the box. We shall see. I have another thread going about it if you're interested.

Took the rifle out to the range today. It shot amazing out to 100 yards. I have some targets that I'll take pictures of and post later. So to all the naysayers, the answer to the question, can a Weatherby Vanguard be a precision rifle, the answer is yes but it takes some work. It handled 200g Hornady ELD-X bullets beautifully. All shots were under 1/2 MOA and many were near hole in hole. The only drawback, if it even is, is that the #2 barrel does get hot after 5 rounds. Free floating the barrel .030 worked perfectly. If anybody tries to convince you that a Weatherby Vanguard needs a pressure point to shoot sub moa, tell them to go fly a kite.

Thanks for the info you have posted in the thread.  I have been considering this only jumping in with an aftermarket barrel and chassis system instead, but when I start comparing pricing to the Howa APC it would be about the same or a little higher to build.  Granted the barrel would be higher quality so I have the conundrum of which way to go.  I do like your build and the learning/tinkering has some merit to go with building over just buying the APC.

Thanks for detailing all the work you did, enjoyed reading all the steps you went through, glad it is shooting great!