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Posted: 11/7/2019 11:20:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: corruptor]
What does it take to upgrade a generic carbine to a decent target shooter?  After failing miserably a serious learning experience at a recent HTF MOA shoot I've decided to learn a bit more about precision shooting.  I know I'm not going to break any records, I just want a dependable MOA capable rifle to use while I learn a thing or two.

This is not likely to become a serious pursuit for me anytime soon, it's just something I want to dip my toes in.  That said, and in the interest of keeping this idea on a reasonable budget, I have a spare carbine that sees almost no use and would like to change it up a bit.  I don't have many builds under my belt though, so I wanted to check in with the folks that know and make sure I have a good plan before I start hunting components.

With any luck I'll be able to score a decent barrel and FF hand guard in the upcoming Black Friday sales, or maybe from the EE.  
Assuming headspace is OK, can I use my existing BCG or do I need to upgrade?
I think I also need to replace my buffer and spring, correct?  Any particular recommendations there, or will any generic gas length appropriate combo do the job?

Am I missing anything?

ETA: Sorry if this is the wrong forum.  My goal is more about skill building than an actual precision rifle, so I figured this would be the best place to start.
Link Posted: 11/7/2019 1:25:52 PM EDT
[#1]
IM sent bud.
Link Posted: 11/7/2019 1:31:32 PM EDT
[#2]
I have an SPRish build that had a colt chrome lined 20 inch barrel that was an ok shooter,
upgrading to a Vltor upper and a LaRue barrel made it a moa gun
Link Posted: 11/7/2019 4:11:02 PM EDT
[#3]
Buy a White Oak 18" SPR upper and a trigger with a consistent break.  That and some match grade ammo will get you started fine.
Link Posted: 11/7/2019 4:19:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Sinister] [#4]
First, a good trigger.

Second, a good barrel.  The ones you have may be perfectly fine, as-is.

A good free-float tube or rail.  It doesn't have to be expensive to work.

Good ammunition -- typically match-grade or handloads.

Maybe add a scope, depending on your preferences (some prefer irons, my old eyeballs do better with a little magnification and crosshairs).

Then shoot it.  Get good at it.  Enjoy it.
Link Posted: 11/7/2019 4:39:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Thanks all!

The lower is already equipped with an MBT trigger, so I don't think I'll need to upgrade that right away.

The barrel, OTOH, is about as cheap as you can get.  It shoots OK for the first dozen or so rounds, but after it heats up my groups start opening up quite a bit.   While my lack of technique is certainly the main issue, I need something I can rely on so I'll know it's all my fault and not the hardware  THe WOA barrels are looking like a pretty good way to go; any idea if they do Black Friday sales?

Ammo is also going to be a factor.  I'm probably going to start with commercially produced match grade, but plan on learning to hand load (I already reload blasting ammo for my other rifles, I just need to learn about the precision side of things...).
Link Posted: 11/7/2019 7:26:12 PM EDT
[#6]
The Larue stealth barrels are absolute shooters, and a steal at $225. I’d also get a quality free float rail. SLR, geissele, etc. doesn’t have to be expensive, just quality. I’m sure you’ll be fine with whatever buffer/spring you have, but you could run an adjustable gas block as it’ll soften up the recoil and makes sure everything runs smoothly. They’re very nice but certainly not necessary.

My other suggestion is to make sure the rifle fits you well. A stock with a repeatable cheek weld, comfortable pistol grip, and your eye relief set well. My dad has a 308 AR10 with a proof carbon fiber barrel that I can’t shoot well at all when the length of pull and scope are set up for him.

You should be just fine withany run of the mill upper you have, and any bolt carrier. You have a great trigger I wouldn’t worry about that. The barrel and rail are the big two. However, there’s no point in spending any money if you won’t put good ammo through it. Depending on barrel twist I’d try ammo loaded with 69 or 77gr Sierra matchking’s. They shoot well in almost everything.
Link Posted: 11/7/2019 8:45:31 PM EDT
[#7]
Before spending a dime try two things:

1. Clean the rifle very well.

2. Buy some match grade ammo and shoot it again.

Standard rack grade rifles will flirt with 1 moa when fed premium ammo. No rifle, no matter how good, can make up for crap fmj ammo. 52/53 grain match bullets hammer no matter what twist rate you have.
Link Posted: 11/12/2019 4:33:46 PM EDT
[#8]
I had a CHEAP setup. Swapped Barrel to a DD 16" M4 with FF Rail. Then loaded some 77 grain Nosler Custom Competition bullets. The gun went from 2-3" at 100 to 1 jagged hole. Then at 400 would shoot sub 2" most of the time. Optic was a Leupold 4-12 or 16 Mark AR.
Link Posted: 11/19/2019 7:00:46 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
Before spending a dime try two things:

1. Clean the rifle very well.

2. Buy some match grade ammo and shoot it again.

Standard rack grade rifles will flirt with 1 moa when fed premium ammo. No rifle, no matter how good, can make up for crap fmj ammo. 52/53 grain match bullets hammer no matter what twist rate you have.
View Quote
Right.  My colt M4 barrel is crazy accurate for what it is.  Under 1 MOA with lots of ammo.  I got a carbine cheese grater FF handguard for practically nothing off the EE and it hammers with a Larue MBT trigger.  Of course I bought that barrel to replace one that shot several inch groups at 25 yards.  YMMV!

Otherwise if yours isn't shooting great like you said check the EE.  You can find some decent barrels for cheap sometimes.
Link Posted: 12/24/2019 12:36:37 PM EDT
[#10]
I am working the same decision...all of my rifles are set up the same, collapsible stock.

I am taking my LaRue 556 OBR and going to mount a 1-8 scope, an A1 stock....already has a MBT trigger and a LaRue-Harris bipod

The OBR is a great rifle,  but I have never warmed up to it like my others, for some reason.  This change may make me want to shoot it more often

77
Link Posted: 12/29/2019 6:37:00 PM EDT
[#11]
Same boat as the OP. I have a few ARs but a couple of the uppers just sit in the safe. They were dreaded PSA daily deals priced way too low to pass up. Going to change out one of the 16" gov profile freedom barrels for a Ballistic Advantage 18" Wylde barrel. Plan to go down there tomorrow if they're around and pick it up. Pretty stoked about doing something like this vs. just building out another 16" carbine.

That said, at 100 yards, I do have a solid shooter that started life as a M&P 15 OR. That's my current go to for longer range shooting and has done an impressive job.
Link Posted: 12/31/2019 10:49:17 AM EDT
[#12]
I have a PSA rifle kit that I have equipped with a White Oak SPR 18" barrel from Brownells, and a RRA Match trigger. I like the trigger, but it isn't as nice as a Geissele or some of the ELF and RISE offerings. For $85 it works pretty damn good though.

I find that once you get a rifle to this point, good ammo and good technique are key. If I have inconsistent cheek weld, or if I misjudge when the trigger break is coming, these are the things that cause my shots to open up. There are probably a dozen other issues that I'm not even aware of that are causing issues here and there. My point is, once you have a good rifle, start practicing with Match grade ammo. It might make you a little ill spending $1.00 a round, but the results will be worth it.
Link Posted: 1/6/2020 6:51:52 PM EDT
[#13]
It really depends on how accurate and repeatedly accurate you want the AR carbine to become.

Thoughts:

1.  Match grade ammo in the rifle you already have may get you where you want to go.

2.  If your barrel is not free floated, do that next and retest.

3.  If you have a mil spec trigger, you need it to be smooth and grit free.  Fix that.

4.  Address optics.  What distance will you be shooting?  If it’s a single purpose precision rifle, go for higher magnification and the best glass you can afford.  If it is a multi-purpose but very accurate build (Recce or SPR) consider a scope in the 2-12x range, maybe just a classic good 3-9x.

If you are still seeking more accuracy:

A.  Get the best match barrel you can afford.  On the top end, accuracy and price tend to go together.  If you are serious about getting down to not merely sub MOA, but sub 1/2 MOA, look to Kreiger, Lilja, Bartlein and such.  My carbine to precision rifle build is based on a 16” Lilja Navy Recce barrel.

B.  Get a much better match trigger, either a lighter two stage or a true target trigger.  My choice is a Geissele SSA-E.  The second stage is 1.2 “right now” pounds.  Match triggers can be much lighter, but the resultant build might not be safe for any use except at bench.

C.  Optimize the ammo to your barrel.  Every barrel has preferences.  If you don’t handload, try small quantities of match ammo from different companies and find what shoots best.
Link Posted: 1/7/2020 3:04:25 AM EDT
[#14]
Clean the barrel you have right now really well, then try some match grade ammo. FMJ's are the lowest quality bullets on the market. They are designed for reliable feeding and penetration.

Federal Gold Medal Match 69/77
Black Hills Ammunition 52/68/69/75/77
Outback 69/77

Unless your rifle isn't up to the task, you should be flirting with 1 moa using any of these selections.

Most people are shocked by how much better their rifles shoot with top quality ammo. They're also shocked by the price.

You may become a reloader yet.
Link Posted: 1/8/2020 2:52:16 AM EDT
[#15]
1. Barrel
Barrel is 60% nothing else matters if your barrel is not good. Put all the money there.

2. Ammo
Ammo is 30% you need ammo that is great AND that your barrel likes.

3. Trigger
Trigger is 10% Trigger wont change anything for mechanical a ccuracy but it will change how well YOU can shoot. Same goes for optic. No change in mechanical accuracy but helps YOU shoot smaller groups.
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