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Posted: 12/17/2018 10:53:13 PM EDT
I have a Aeroprecision 308 lower and upper set that I have been trying to get dialed in for two years. Currently running a JP rifles BCG and high pressure bolt, Geissle Match trigger, Leupold M4 scope in a American Defense MFG mount, Aeroprecision match barrel. Have tried a Mega Arms barrel and a Rainer Arms barrel as well with poor results. 1.5 to 2moa with various match ammo. I am currently considering a Larue Upper or Krieger M110 barrel from fulton armory. I live in a ban state so it's uppers or barrels only, no complete rifles like GAP. Any input is greatly appreciated.
Link Posted: 12/18/2018 9:25:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CaliContractor] [#1]
You are a major part of the equation here, do we/you know if you are capable of doing sub moa shooting? Not dogging you but it will be asked. DO you have other rifles that you can shot sub moa routinely, not every once in a while you get a photo worthy group.

Parts list looks good but I would check scope rings and make sure loc tite and proper torque. Try a different scope if possible or take off the entire scope and mount and try a set you know for a fact is holding zero.  Can you take the scope off this rifle and put it on a known sub moa rifle and do a box or tall test?

Are you using factory ammo or hand loading? I know some loads like FGGm have a well earned rep but that doesn't mean it's going to work in your rifle, which is why hand loading is worth it if your going for tight groups.

Check out hellbinder accuracy tacky at top of this sections page. Good tips for building that can have an effect on precision
Link Posted: 12/18/2018 11:22:01 AM EDT
[#2]
I am capable of sub moa shooting,I have a Rem 700P from work that shoots .6 and a RPR that shoots just under. I have shot thescope from that rifle, NF NXS 5-25 on the AR10 with same results. I have tried hand loads using Varget and a few others types of powders and bullett combos. I have also tried several factory loads and weights from FGMM, Hornady and black hills 168 and 175gr plus a few others. I'm am wondering if a company built Upper is better than replacing another barrel
Link Posted: 12/18/2018 11:44:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CaliContractor] [#3]
I have built every upper I own, every single one is sub moa with my hand loads.  Building an upper is not a complex thing and I seriously doubt that a company built one is going to be that much better then what you are doing.  I mean honestly have you seen the general public and their work ethics, let alone any sort of pride in workmanship anymore??  I would think you care about the end result and will take the care and time to do it right given what your chasing.

Read the sticky up top it has good info. When I build uppers now days and I am going to want sub moa the barrel is the heart, I don't know the quality of the listed barrels you have used but it's possible to get a dud even with the best. I don't think you could go wrong with a Krieger.
Link Posted: 12/18/2018 11:56:06 AM EDT
[#4]
You mentioned 2 bolt guns, but how do you shoot gas guns. They are a different animal and can make experienced bolt gunners look like a novice.

What is your technique? Same as with a bolt gun?

How do the groups look? Almost like stringing high and right?
Link Posted: 12/18/2018 12:40:11 PM EDT
[#5]
I have a PRI mk 12 that hovers just under MOA with match ammo. As for 308 gas guns, this is the only I've ever shot and it's never been better than 1.5moa or so. Most groups are good, with a single outlier. I'd chalk it up to shooter error but it's consistent. Never more than 3 rounds without a flier. And, oddly, this is the only gun I've ever seen shoot worse suppressed. All my other guns shoot better. It's frustrating because I can't get another rifle in my state I'm stuck with this lower, and no matter what it seems to group poorly. If I wanted a 16 inch battle rifle Upper I'd be happy, but I was hoping for a precision semi auto. 3 barrrels, 2 uppers, 4 hand guards, 2 muzzle devices and countless hours later I'm still at a loss. I've read the sticky multiple times I'm honestly wondering if maybe I can't build it right therefore try Larue uppers, or is maybe I need to bite the bullet and go with a Krieger or Proof Research barrel.
Link Posted: 12/18/2018 10:15:17 PM EDT
[#6]
Large frame ARs are different critters than their small cousins, and bolt guns make it stupid easy to shoot well...i.e., they tolerate less than perfect inputs.
Good form, follow through and consistency are required with large frame guns...

Some reading

Tips from seekins
https://www.outdoorlife.com/5-tips-for-better-long-range-accuracy-with-your-ar#page-4

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plcp&index=36&v=ytM_2PG6joU&list=UUwHsnyWOaQNtrGjJKsTgegg

This old thread has many similarities to your situation
http://forum.snipershide.com/threads/improving-accuracy-in-an-ar-10.101586/
Link Posted: 12/18/2018 11:18:59 PM EDT
[#7]
It sounds like you are on the right track for your build, so I don't have a solid answer, but here area few things that have helped me tighten up gas guns like yours:

1.  True up the face of the upper receiver to insure the barrel extension mates up square.  This will require a part and some lapping compound, but it isn't a complex procedure.

2.  When assembling the rifle, I have used blue loc-tite between outside of the barrel extension and inside of the upper receiver.  Use VERY little, and don't get any anywhere close to the threads, or the nut that tightens up the barrel onto the upper.

3.  Properly torque the barrel onto the receiver.  Use plenty of anti-seize grease, then tighten almost all the way, back off the nut, tighten almost all the way, loosen the nut, do this 3x before final torque.  If you need to shim the barrel do so, but a loose barrel nut is an invitation to frustration.  An overly tight one can ruin your receiver.

4.  Insure that your gas tube passes easily through the opening in the upper and is square to the receiver so that it enters smoothly and evenly into gas key on the bolt carrier without bearing unevenly on either side.

5.  use a little blue loc-tite around the bottom of the gas block.  Make sure you don't get any between about 10 and 2 o'clock so there isn't any loc-tite anywhere close to the gas port.  Obviously, plugging the gas port with loc-tite would be bad.

6.  If you have excessive play between the upper and lower receiver, you can get a shoulder bolt at most hardware stores that you can use to replace the front take down pin.  Tightening this shoulder bolt will eliminate all play between the upper and lower.

7.  Experiment with various positions of the gun in the rest.  I presume you have a free floated barrel and tube forend.    Try placing the rear bag under the toe of the butt stock, as opposed to the pistol grip.  If you use a bipod, load the bipod with forward pressure.

8.  The gas guns have different vibrations that effect accuracy than bolt guns.  This is caused by the weight of the hammer, and the reciprocation of the bolt/bolt carrier mass.  It would take too long to type all the explanation of the effects of that here, but it matters, so understanding it can help you.

9.  Try free recoiling vs tight holding when firing the rifle.

10.  Insure that your optics are not wonky, and are mounted right, and that rings and base are properly mounted and torqued.  I presume your scope isn't busted.  If you have one scope ring on the receiver, and another scope ring mounted on the tube forend, you are almost guaranteed to have problems.

11.  Ask someone to help you with coaching on how to shoot gas guns because the techniques for best results are different than bolt guns, as the gas guns are less forgiving that bolt guns.

12.  Try with, and without a muzzle device.  A muzzle device with threads slightly off center will mess up everything.

13.  Obviously try different types of ammo, and different weights.  Usually trying Federal, Remington, Hornady, Black Hills match bullet loads will find one that works well.

14.  Make sure that your gas key is properly staked and tight.  Insure that your gas rings are offset.

If I think of more, I will edit this post...I hope something here helps.
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