Would you guys trade a brand new in box ATACR 7-35 Mil c for a lightly used S&B 5-25 P4F and $500?

I'm upgrading from a Razor 3-18 to the next level and can't decide which one I want. I know the ATACR has 10x on top of the S&B, but it seems like the consensus is that the S&B glass is slightly better? But at this point does it really matter? Is that trade even fair?

Thanks

Honestly at these levels it would be hard for most folks to tell a difference in glass. They are both exceptional optics. Reviewers might find slight differences in color and such, and if that is important to you then do it. However, when you get into $3000+ glass, at a certain point, it becomes more an issue of brand loyalty or preference versus actual large differences. Either one is going to be a great optic.. so go with the reticle and magnification you are happy with. I find reticle and magnification ends up being more important to me at these levels.

NightForce.

I have this weird affinity with S&B and AI. I am going to put this on my AI AE MKIII and for some reason AI and S&B seems like a good combo. I know that sounds dumb lol.

I think between the two reticles I prefer the Mil-C. I shall keep the NF.

Thanks guys!

Bad trade.  The lack of numbered subtensions on the P4 reticle would be unforgivably annoying.

If the NF is FFP, I'd probably keep it. Although an extra $500 is always useful.

I have two S&B PMII's with the P4F reticle and they are great scopes. Mine are 4-16x50 and 5-25x56. Wouldn't trade either for anything else.

Really no wrong answer. Depends on which features you prefer.

This. I have done the same, I have replaced nearly all my optics with Razor HD IIs and never looked back.

I can tell the difference between a Vortex and the Alpha tier glass.  The Razor is among the best under $2500, and for the vast majority of users it’s more than enough scope for anyone.  That said, when you step up to the ATACR, S&B, ZCO and Hensoldt scopes, you’re in a whole new world.  For the Alpha tier scopes, it’s about deciding which specific attribute or feature you want the most.  The 7-35x ATACR is a different scope than the 5-25x ATACR, and the optical quality is better.  

If you’re willing to spend the money, I highly suggest you pull the trigger on the ATACR or PMII.  However, be sure to figure out which reticle you really want.  A simple mil hash reticle is rather unpopular these days, with most shooters opting for Xmas tree type reticles like the Mil-XT.  

I would take the 7-35x ATACR over the PMII.  You’re dealing with a newer scope, newer tech, and a US company.

Also, I would highly recommend that you look into Zero Compromise Optics.  If you don’t know their backstory, they’re what you get when you meld NF with Kahles and make a better scope than either.

Glass is only part of the equation.  Repeatablity and robustness in the turrets is also critical.  Hard to go wrong with either, but I'd give the nod to NF>

I have both. My S&B has the T3 reticle and 5-25x.
The NF 7-35 has the mil-xt. I think the S&B is slightly brighter but only 25 power. They are both top tier and you would be happy with either. At this level you need to figure out what reticle you want and have that steer you.

NF uses Japanese glass and S&B bought their own glass company. IOR Valdada uses Schott glass...and on and on. Optical glass seems to be of extraordinary quality from a number of sources these days.

I think state of the art in glass these days comes down to which company uses the best coatings on their glass. The coatings are what focus and pass the color spectrum the best. Higher magnification has the effect of 'splitting the focal planes that the colors are resolved on' and is called chromatic aberration. Great coatings bring all that color transmission onto one plane making the image sharper and brighter.



The top building photo illustrates chromatic aberration and the bottom photo shows the aberration corrected. Cheaper coatings don't correct this aberration as well as good coatings do.

Suffice to say, better apochromatic coatings which correct chromatic and spherical aberration are sharper and brighter at higher magnifications than lesser quality coatings.

You'll also want to evaluate the 'tunneling effect' of the scopes you are choosing from.

I have NF NXS scopes, IOR Valdada scopes, and have had US Optics, Schmidt & Bender, and Swarovski scopes. I've pared my scopes down to NF and IOR as I think their glass, sharpness at high magnification, ruggedness, and features best suit me. YMMV.

I agree. A scope is a 'package' with multiple elements that need to work in unison, including tracking, parallax correction, focus and light transmissibility, and ease of manipulation.

That said, they all need to work together to afford the shooter the best advantage possible.