The title says it all. I’m planning on zeroing at 100 yards and wonder what the consensus was. My scope is a Vortex Viper PST 5-25 with the EBR-2D reticle which should allow me to use holdover out quite some ways.  Are there any pros or cons to either method?

Dial

I dial the initial shot, if I need to make a quick second shot I will holdover, but any other follow up shots will get dialed as well...

Dial.

I’d consider a better long range zero. And really the answer depends on if you are bench rest shooting or needing to make quick shots. Also very heavily depends on the reticle you have. A plain X hair is going to be sketchy trying to hold over and I’d want to dial it every time.

Edit. I missed where you mentioned the reticle. That one certainly gives you the option for precision hold over

Both depending upon situation.

The pro to holdover is when you are at zero and the amount you need to holdover is a multiple of mil. Much quicker and easier than turning the dial.

Dial.

But I'm not shooting large steel plates.  My 600 yard shooting is on bullseye targets for score.

In a PRS-style match, I could see using dial and hold over, depending on circumstances.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

With that reticle, holds are faster until you reach the limits.  For example, I have the same scope on my 18" Grendel.  Holds are good to maybe 800Y from memory.  1K is around 13 mil, so you run out of holds at some point.  .308 is somewhere around 10 and 6.5CM is in the mid 8's (again, from memory)

like always, YMMV and it depends on what you are shooting and distances.  You will have more precision via dialing for sure

Do both and see what you like.

I think I’ll try both. I’m shooting 6.5 Creedmoor so I think I’ll be able to use holds for quite a ways out.

both. depends purely on how much time I have. If I have 10 shots in 120 seconds on 6 different targets I sure ain't going to be dialing. When I have plenty of time, dial.

Thanks again guys. I’ll practice both methods.

I can’t see a single possible reason to have a zero other than 100 unless you’re playing the extreme ELR game where you’re running out of elevation in both the reticle and turrets.

Good idea to also test the turret tracking, if you haven't already.

Use a tall target. Shoot, dial, shoot, dial, through the range of adjustments, not just up and down, but left and right if you intend to dial for windage as well.

Most top-of-the-line scopes have pretty accurate turrets, but the further out you intend to shoot, the more critical the precision is.

With the mid to lower scopes, there's enough variability in the production standards, that 2 of the exact same model of scope, may exhibit differences in turret tracking.

That's one argument for holding vs dialing. The reticles are laser etched, and tend to be much more precise for consistency.

I haven’t shot the rifle yet but plan to do a tall target test. Does anyone have a source for tall targets?

I rarely dial but I was taught by a guy who holds most of the time.

Just make your own, they are pretty easy, this is a combined tall(vertical) and box(horizontal) target, I used it for my razor 2 4.5-27-56 scope...Set up at precisely 100 yards(tape measure if you have to but must be correct 100 yard).. all aiming at aim point while you crank your dials..go up, then crank back to zero and make sure it shoots zero again...You also need to level the target when its setup and also make sure your rifle/scope is level when you shoot so you can verify the reticle isn't diagonal-ing off target as you dial...

Attached File


ETA: So I shoot the tall part, come back to zero, then dial left 5, then up 20, then right 10, then down 20, then left 5 back to zero...

1mil = 3.6" at 100yards
1moa = 1.047" at 100 yards

This depending on the range. Some targets within 300 I will hold over on if I'm worried about time.

Dial

I typically dial for my elevation adjustment and hold for windage.

Depends on time alotted and moa target

For work sometimes there is no time to dial in...same for certain prs stages....if i have the extra time ill dial

It sounds like the general consensus is, time permitting dial. If time is of the essence, hold over.

I use both depending both depending on the situation.  Dialing is more precise.  However, if there are a number of targets to engage in a short time, and they aren't too far out, it is faster to use the reticle.

However, if your reticle is too "busy", it can take longer to find the correct hash mark in the reticle for the distance you require than to dial.  Like anything, dialing up and down takes practice.

If you can quickly engage by using hash mark 2,5,6,3 in the reticle for targets not requiring very precise hits (larger targets where + or - 1.5" won't matter much) then holding can be faster.   On something like a know your limits stage where the targets are barely MOA size, you really need the precision of knowing exactly where your bullet's elevation will strike.

So I practice and use both methods and adapt to the situation or course of fire.

Dial

The answer is “It depends”.

Do I need to be as precise as possible?
Do I have plenty of time?
Dial.

Is getting the shot off quick more important because moving target/threat?
Is it an easy shot (large target, no wind)?
Hold-over/off

I’m good with both. Like other say it depends on time although I prefer to used hold over as not all of my optics are zero stop.

Either depending on circumstance

yea, it depends.

and the depends part includes how the OP defines long range, and the caliber we are talking.

zero too close for how I define long range and what I use to shoot it, ymmv

I've been shooting long range in some type of formal setting now for 25 years, always chasing how to do it more efficiently with minimal distractions to the shooter.

I've used all different types of scopes, including BDC reticles, TGT turrets, Mil and MOA hash reticles/turrets, Horus reticles, and other stadia-based holdover reticles.

The biggest determining factors that I take into consideration for which method (stadia holds vs dialing elevation) I will use are:

* Terrain
* TGT size
* Caliber

Terrain and Caliber
What I've seen in more green environments with dark soil and smaller calibers (6.5mm and less) is that it's very hard to get a register in the dirt when you miss, which really makes it hard to get your follow-up shot if you're spotting for yourself.  Larger projectiles (7mm 180gr and up like 300 Win Mag, .338 Lapua Mag) do more "plowing" in the soil, and usually give you a register with your long range miss, provided the glass is good enough to see that.

With 6mm and 6.5mm, I've found it much harder to see the shot register at distances in green/dark soil terrain.  This affects both methods, but seems a little more troublesome for me when using the holdover tree reticles because it's harder to bracket an unknown.

Out here in the Western US in high desert or dry, desert terrain, the stadia reticles work very well in this regard, since you often see a very noticeable dust-up on impact.

TGT size
For man-sized silhouettes, IPSC plates, 18" stop signs, and even 12" or 10" plates out to a certain distance, the stadia tree reticles seem to work very well in conjunction with real-time atmospheric data.  I actually take my 12" barreled 6.5 Grendel out of the soft case, insert a mag, and immediately start engaging 24"x36" buffalo steel at 800yds with some of the most mediocre BC 120-123gr loads there are, and get 9/10 hits after the initial register, and that's using a 1-4x24 GRSC scope.

I'll be doing some more work with the 12", only using the new 1-10x30 FSO GRSC, which has even more elevation in the reticle to play with.



When the plate sizes get small like in a PRS match, I'm more of a fan of dialing with a scope that has excellent glass clarity and a small center cross with relevant Mil hash holds on the horizontal crosshair for wind holds.

Even when I dial, I almost always hold for wind due to the wind's variable nature.  I observe the wind effects and change my wind hold constantly, similar to how HUD symbology works for Lead Computing Optical Sight in fighter aircraft.  When I spot for people, my windage calls are the calls for taking the shot, so I just give the shooter constant holds as the wind changes so the shooter can break the shot whenever they're ready.  It takes quite a bit of experience to read the wind like that and give accurate holds in Mils, but is a critical skill for having high hit probability at long range.

If you're shooting 6.5CM, it's pretty forgiving in the trajectory department, especially if you shoot 123s or 130gr, so either method will work well for you in that regard, but when shooting 2 MOA or smaller plates, you might want to dial.

Great post thanks! I’m shooting 6.5 Creedmoor and my original post was in regards to shooting out to 1000 yards.

Oh boy.

Maximum point blank range?

Learn it. Love it.

Also learn the specific trajectory to make a more precise shot.

No thanks. All rifles get a 100 yard zero. Depending on how much time I have determines if I dial or hold. If I have to be fast hold overs work fine. If I have time I'll dial elevation and hold wind. Point blank range zeros to me at this point in my life are pointless. I zero at 100 and I know my drop out to extreme distances. I can put my bullete exactly where I want it. What does maximum point blank give me besides a high or low impact?

PRS club match yesterday:

10 stages

Dialed: 2
Held over: 3
Same distance all shots: 5

I appreciate the replies guys. I’m shooting steel not paper, zeroed at 100 yards, and so far have been dialing for 300-400 yards (the furthest distance at the range I frequent). I’m sure at some point holdovers will come into play, particularly if I try any matches.

Wilco

No knobs are as precise and repeatable as an etched reticle.

I use a 6" 2x4.

I use a 6" 2x4.

I get the cardboard cover sheets from my local feed store and place a sticky bullseye in the center. Then draw a line to get a vertical level. Walmart has poster board for school projects that work well to.

I make my own...I do combine a tall target with a box target so I can test both elevation and windage in one test...

I go up the center then down, then left, then up, then right, then down and finally back to center...
Attached File

I got an opportunity to shoot at 1000 yards last weekend. I dialed up the elevation and held for a small quartering crosswind and was able to make hits on a 3 MOA target after a couple of shots. I have a bad feeling this new discipline is going to cost me a lot of money.

I holdover so I can still hit lungs even if I miss the heart

So you're telling me that being able to hold center mass and get a lethal hit with no corrections is... lazy, unwashed?

The hunting example is prime. Put sights on critter, pull trigger. Same with a battle rifle. Great way to get fire superiority with actual hits, not having to think beyond sight on target...

I'd definitely say that a precision rifle is intended as such and mpbr is an afterthought, but when time is of the essence, doesn't it just make more sense to know you can just pull the trigger and get a hit?

Hunting I range, look at dope chart hold and shoot. Your going to have to range no matter what if it's at any distance and if it's under 200 ya can just hold and fire on game. So why not be super precise? If it's a battle rifle your comparing apples to oranges and I'm still going to be using my reticle for hold overs.