Vibrator for cleaning brass. This one was a Hornady brand. Lasted 13 months and motor would not run fast enough to keep everything moving.  Guess I'm done with this type of brass cleaning.  Looks like everyone is singing the praises of wet tumbling with SS pins.  If I take the plunge which unit do y'all recommend?  What type of cleaning solution? Prep order? De-prime first then clean? Just use a de-priming die without sizing?  
Thanks for any help and recommendation in advance.

My lymans last about 1-2 years, i run them hard but still crap.  My Dillon has been going for 10 years.

I have an Extreme Rebel and it's been solid for a couple of years now. It's a smaller unit so if you are cleaning and loading for IDPA/USPSA matches or te like you will probably want something larger.

When I clean rifle brass I use the pin tumbler after I decap/size and trim. The pins take care of the deburring after trimming for me.

Solution wise, I use Dawn and Lemishine and RO filtered water. I air dry (easy to do in Phx) but others like the dryers. I tried the oven one time and trashed the brass.

Just an opinion, but you will want both kinds of processes, wet and dry.

Dry tumbling is handy at many tasks, like taking off case lube, compared to wet.

I have some industrial experience and at home I recommend two brands of tumblers. The bigger Dillon for it's size and a Thumler's Tumbler for their durability.

I'll say this up front, the price of the Thumler is a shock to folks, but the tool lasts decades compared to consumer grade tools and takes constant use. Consumer units in the work environment lasted a couple of months, where the industrial Thumlers we bought in the 80's and 90's are still running...

http://www.thumlerstumbler.com/industrial.html

I've had the Lyman Cyclone for a few yrs now, perfect for me and a huge upgrade from the dual drum harbor freight it replaced.

As mentioned, I would get another vibratory, nice to have for removing case lube at least.

Well I picked up a Franklin Arsenal tumbler, deal at Amazon. When it arrived I quickly unpacked and did a quick read of manual (I know right). Anyway  got about 100 .223 cases loaded up my new tumbler and turned on.  Everything ran EXCEPT the drum would not rotate, the drive wheels just spun. I thought maybe I had too much weight although directions said keep it under 30 pounds, this was under that by more about half.  Emptied some of the water anyway, still no go.  Took drum off and cleaned drive wheels and outside of drum. Figured maybe I spilled some soap on them. Still no go.  Next called customer service and talked to rep.  He went over how to load and to check for lube on drive wheels as they some time ship with that on wheels (?) They are rubber so I would not think that would be the case.  Anyway he said he would email me a return label and I should ship back to them.  

I was a bit disappointed in the whole affair and now am rethinking my decision to go to wet tumbling.  Lots of extra steps using this method, rinse brass (and pins) separate the pins from brass. Then dry brass (and pins). Then I read on another forum that you may want to lube necks to get a more consistent neck tension.  Plus still being told I should keep a tumbler for lube removal.

I started this because 1. my tumble broke and 2. the dust was starting to bother me using the dry method plus it seems to get all over everything. But now I'm not sure all this is worth getting shiner brass?  

I guess I'm committed to giving it another try when replacement comes in but is there some other advantages to this I'm missing?  

I agree, you want both types of tumblers...  Wet tumbling does a great job of cleaning cases inside and out.  I have recently heard that some folks use it to deburr case mouths after trimming (haven't tried that yet)!...  Dry tumbling is good for removing sizing lube and polishing.  It also does a decent job of basic cleaning.

IN terms of wet tumbling - the FART (Frankford Arsenal Rotary Tumbler) seems to have an almost cult following.  On the other reloading forum, there is an entire thread devoted to singing its praise (LINK).  It's a good tumbler (with good parts availability) and comes complete with SS pin media in the box.

bfm1851, Sorry to hear you are having trouble with your new set up.  I read your description several times and still cannot picture what is going on.

With the Franklin wet tumbler, the motor drives just the front shaft, that would be the one closest to you when you face the unit. The rear wheels are idlers and just support the drum.

Does your front drive axle spin when you power on the base? Does the rear support axle spin freely? Is it that the drive wheels skid under the drum?

The FART is a good unit, so they will get you fixed up soon enough. I know it must be disappointing to get stalled, but be patient and they should get you going.



Wet tumbling is definitely more handling than dry tumbling. Between loading, running, rinsing, straining and flushing, separating pins, spinning off water, drying the brass in a dehydrator, and reloading the pins back into the drum... there are more hands on steps required without a doubt. That said, if you pop the primers out first, it is hard to compare the cleaning job inside and out including the primer pockets from a wet tumbler.

The real benefit is to have brass clean enough to inspect without carbon inside the body or primer pocket. It also leaves nothing on the case that will burn, smoke, or stain during annealing.

It is not a great method for removing heavy sizing lubes like Imperial Wax.

You will want to keep a dry tumbler around too, even if it is just to remove case lube.

I run some brass dry tumble for everything in their process, but for some topics I use a wet tumble and a dry tumble. There are good reasons to keep both kinds of cleaning handy.

RegionRat, yes the front drive wheels turned and the rear idles are free to turn.  The problem is that the drum just sits in the turning wheels and does not move. If I push it a little it will make a turn or two then stop. I have sent it back to Franklin and have received confirmation that another is on the way, expected delivery is Tuesday.  
I have read enough reviews on this to know that it's a decent machine, just got a bad one I guess.  I read all the info from the link that AZNetEng gave me and got a lot if information.  Also found out that it's call the FART  
I suppose I'll have to pick up another dry media tumbler too, any suggestions on one that will last more then a year??
Thanks

I had been reloading since I was a little kid. Then I started working in industrial and university labs at a young age. When I started working in defense/aerospace, I needed debur and tumbling to finish precision metal parts.

Having my own labs, and visiting with my suppliers all around the world, gave me exposure to equipment good and bad.

When it came to where I wanted to start reloading after moving far away from where I was raised, I knew the difference between commercial/industrial machines and consumer machines.

I will say the Thumler machines I bought have surprised me for their longevity. However, those are not cheap. On the other hand, my friends have ones at home that break down in a year or two. My first lab Thumler has been running at the labs since about 1983 and the one at home since about 1988, or thereabouts. I added another Thumler and also a large Dillon machine at home, and don't regret the money spent at all. They have been workhorse units.

So I will vouch for the industrial Thumler and the Dillon tumblers.

These are the ones with ball bearing industrial motors.

http://www.thumlerstumbler.com/industrial.html

These are their consumer versions which are also better than most.

http://www.thumlerstumbler.com/vibratory.html

Here is the Dillon unit, which carries a 5 year warranty I believe.

https://www.dillonprecision.com/cv-2001-vibratory-case-cleaner_8_8_23658.html

So my replacement FART came in late yesterday afternoon.  Unpacked and set up, I had bought the screens from Amazon a few days ago and had then as well.  First I just put in SS pins and tried it.
Guess what would not turn. So before I got too mad and started breaking things I took pins out and filled with water, IT WORK!!!! Put in pins, still runs. So I threw in a little over 200 9mm cases I had de-
primed, a little dawn and a tad of lemon shine.  Ran for 1 1/2hr.  Cases came out looking very good, a few primer pockets were not as clean as they could be but I could have run longer or maybe adjust soap?  

Rinsed a couple time. patted with towel and then put in media separator. After that laid out to finish air drying. Pin sat in towel over night and seem to be pretty dry.

The screens I bought to help drain water and not loss any pins worked great. Some complaints were that the screen was too fine and would clog up. I had no problem with this if you pour water out slowly. I suppose if you turn it upside down the screen could blind over.  

How do you guy's store your pins? Do you wash them separately or just figure the rinse was good enough?  Does any one mix brass in the batch? I could see this causing stuck cases.  Lots of questions that I'm sure I'll figure out for myself but if I can get a heads up maybe I won't feel so dumb when something happens??

After one batch, I think it does a good job but it does involve and few more steps in your cleaning process.

Yes, no way around more handling steps when wet tumbling even if you skip the pins.

Pins are usually good at cleaning the primer pockets, so I'm not sure why yours didn't come out good.

Cases came out looking very good, a few primer pockets were not as clean as they could be but I could have run longer or maybe adjust soap? Try a 2 hour run and see if the pockets improve.

How do you guy's store your pins? When I use the FART set that has the bucket with the screen at the bottom, most of the dirt is flushed away. If not, it takes a little flushing in that bucket and it is done. I just dump them back into the tumbler and I don't attempt to dry them out for storage, I just leave the lid off and they will be fine.

Does any one mix brass in the batch? I could see this causing stuck cases. Yes, some small pistol cases are tricky like that. Small ones like 380 or 25 need to be watched so they don't hide inside larger cases, but it isn't a big deal to mix stuff that you know you can manage on inspection later.

What do you suppose caused the drum to fail to rotate on your first attempt?

Glad it all worked out. Play around with your soap and Lemishine ratios to adjust to your local water chemistry. Read up on the use of car soaps that contain some wax, it can help with long term storage and preventing tarnish.

Good Luck and have fun.

So I've been using the Franklin for IDK how many years now, and love it.  IDK why yours (either of them) would not spin.  I used to be notorious for loading too many cases in mine, and I've never had an issue with it spinning.

Things I've learned:
1. the fewer the cases, the better the cleaning.  So I never fill the container over 1/4-1/3 brass cases.  I used to fill that tub 1/2 way or greater, and I thought I was getting a good cleaning until one day I had a 1/4 load and put it on the typical 2hr-2.5hr timer that I do .... and I was amazed at how bright and shiny they were.
2. I use the full 5lb's worth of SS pins every time.
3. fill the water to the bottom of the neck, if you don't you end up with foam, LOL .... also, you can tip the container to 'burp' the air out of rifle cases and can sometimes add more water.
4. add soap (I'll list that below).
5. when putting the caps on, if it leaks after you screw the caps on, take them off and make sure the gaskets are wet and centered, then crank down on the screw rings again.

Soap/solution.
I use Dawn (blue original) with a gentle squeeze of the bottle and a 3-4sec count AND 2 teaspoons of Citric Acid.

Separating.
I begin by pouring out the dirty solution with those screens you mentioned that you bought.  I too recently bought these and it's a much better process.

I recently also purchased a wet tumble pin operator (basically a basket in an enclosed box that you spin by hand and it slings all the pins out and keeps the brass in the basket).  You then can rinse your brass (and will still collect a few pins).  Then you can rinse your pins.  This too is a much better process than what I was doing.

Drying.
I use a food dehydrator.  Truthfully I stole my wife's, it worked well ..... and I bought her a nicer one than she had. LOL

Speaking of drying ..... I do not dry my pins.  I try to let the water drain out of them, and then I keep mine in a plastic 1 gal ice cream tub ...... and I store them with the lid off so the pins will dry.

Mixed cartridges.
I will mix like diameter calibers, but that's it.  I found out that straight wall cases like to get inside each other (pistol and/or rifle), and some bottleneck cases will at the necks of each other too.  Sometimes those pins will make it so tight that one case ends up damaged trying to get them apart.  Since then, I only put like diameter case mouth calibers together.  So like 30 cal, I might throw .308, 300BO, 30-06, 30 Rem AR, 7.62x39, and 30 Carbine all together in 1 batch.

Hope it helps.

Oh yea!  .... one other thing I do.

Flashlight.
Once I get finished drying my brass, I dump all of them in a cardboard box lid.  Actually it's either the lid off a box of paper reams, or it's the box that you get muffins, Texas Cinnamon rolls, etc in from places like Sam's Club. LOL  Basically it's a cardboard tray.

After I get all of them in that box, I then go through each piece of brass with a flashlight looking at the primer pocket AND flipping it over and looking inside the case ........ all to assure that there is not a SS pin stuck inside.  The last thing I want is a SS rod fired down my barrel.

Hope it helps.

Same lyman for 12 years. Probably do 2 to 3 batches a week at 3 hours.

Well I have run several loads thru my FART.  I am getting "my" process down fairly well.  Nothing you guys aren't doing just maybe getting process down so things seem to go faster.  Punch out primers (de-capping die),  put in tub, add water and SS pins then add two tablespoons of Dawn and one teaspoon of lemishine.  I have run the tumbler for 1hr, 1 1/2hr and 2hr. The extra time did make a difference but I don't know if its really necessary.  

Dump out dirty water, those screens work well and I recommend them. Then comes the rinsing. I am doing this outside in the driveway so I use a hose. Just open one end and hit them with hose, shaking it some. Then I put on one of the grates that came with it and dump out pins in a bucket, again shaking and rinsing with more water. Now I'm left with a tumbler full of brass and maybe some SS pins. I'll dump everything into my tumbler that I used for separating the media from the brass when I was dry cleaning and give it a few spins.  Have to be careful as this is not contained and you can throw some pins (and water) in your face.

I normally find a few pins that were hiding somewhere in the bottom of the tub.  The grates from Franklin for their tumbler work really well but I think a couple pins get into the shells and the rotating actions frees them up.  

Now the brass goes into a towel for that "bowling ball" rub you guys talk about and then I lay it out on the cover for my pickup truck.  Been warm in Texas lately so it takes maybe 2 and half hour for them to dry.

After rinsing the pins again I lay them out on a towel on the cover also. They dry a lot faster and get quite warm. Found out the first time I scooped them up with my hands to put away  Brass looks great.

I read somewhere (maybe here) that cleaning this way get the brass so clean that you should use some lube inside the necks when seating the bullet for better next tension?? I have not tried that yet but maybe ...