Went to the local gun show yesterday.  Saw a dealer with low price AR's. Selling an AR,  he and his customer were BS'ing. Topic was about the cost of ammo.  At this point the dealer goes off about pricing and how gun manufacturers only make guns in any production runs that have affordable ammo on the market. As an example the 6.5 Grendel comes up. Then it is basically stated that it really only caught on when Wolf got into the game. This dealer then talks about the effectiveness of the Grendel and how good it is at 300 yards, but he was doubtful about 1000 yards and it getting out to that distance.  Even eluded to the 6.5 Creedmoor's ability and some doubt.

According to any of the data I've worked up for mine,  1000 doesn't seem to present any doubt.  I know a few (probably more than a few) have gone that distance and beyond.

You know that really strong taste of iron you get from the taste of blood? I had it bad because I was biting my tongue causing a large amount of blood... wanted to raise the BS flag,  but let it go.  You always know there's a problem when a hammer is used putting a grip on an AR like he was doing for his customer (who said nothing about that practice).

First time experiencing someone in the firearms business talking out their ass?

A hammer was used to put on a grip.  I'm not sure how/why one would do that...

A glimmer of truth about the ammo. Good calibers have died a quiet death because of lack of available ammo and vice versa.

Nope,  shows usually have quite a few.

My thinking exactly...

"Well hell even the preferred bullet of snipers - 7.62mm 168gr OTM - just falls straight to the ground after 800yds." - internet/fudd lore

Actually, that's what it looks like when you spot it on the terminal path after it goes over the maximum ordinate, unless you're at higher altitude.

Looks like a mortar.

Also, 168gr OTM was only used for training.

We used M118 Special Ball 173gr FMJBT and later 175gr M118LR.

123gr SMK and Scenar from 6.5 Grendel fly really similarly to the 175gr SMK, only with less wind drift and half the recoil/less muzzle blast.

Buddy and I regularly shoot 1000-mile. This was 1650 with my buddies Grendel on left and my C on right. Idk wth I'm doing. It was cold.

Damn that looks fun. Very jealous.

What a beautiful backdrop.  I am very jealous!

I have learned to only listen to myself on guns....I have heard so much BS in my years, especially at Academy Sports.

77

Yes the scenic above is making me very jealous....

You are getting to 1650 with a Grendel?

I was all fired up to build a Grendel until I ran some numbers of it vs. the 223 out of a 24" with 73gr ELD.

Not trying to be negative toward the Grendel because it certainly does add a significant punch of energy to the equation.

But as far as staying above mach 1.1 out at extended distances... I was looking for hits on steel, and I didn't see the juice being worth the squeeze for my purposes.

So I was all set to build a 223 Wylde and then the 224 Valkyrie starts making waves, and then I delve a little further.  I handload and the 22 Grendel seems to even surpass that.  Right now a bunch of the companies selling both want to sell complete rifles or complete uppers.

I've got a Mega Monolithic upper that has been sitting in the back corner of the safe since September, so I'm not going to buy a complete upper.

Barrels are supposed to be available soon from a host of people, I'm just not sure which direction to go.

Don’t think he would be supersonic but I guess technically it will get there

Darn my eyes.  At first, I thought you said you were shooting 1000 miles.  I’ve seen some wild claims in here, but that would be a good one. Have a heck of a kick too.  You would need some serious high end glass, too

Apologies to all,  my original post was not meant to start a this is better than that war. It was completely meant to chuckle in frustration at an example of gun show cowboys making comments like they are experts on everything while bashing an AR grip on with a hammer. I mean I understand the guy didn't like arcing bullets as he stated, but at that point don't try shooting at any distances...

At all these long range there won't be many that will have much left on them.  How they handle covering that distance is a different story. Flight paths from ballistics, winds,  etc are the interesting part of the calibers.

My collection of calibers is probably not what most would prefer. I constantly get range jockeys that are dismayed by my large frame being a 6.5 Creedmoor and not a 308. I lost count of the times I've heard there's nothing the 6.5 can do that a 308 won't.  Maybe,  maybe not.  I went with the 6.5 Creedmoor because that's what I found interesting and wanted. That same logic was used for the 6mm Creedmoor I'm getting ready to finish off. The same can be said about almost everything. If it isn't the caliber I'm using,  it's the optic. " That must have cost,  should have bought a Leuopold..." is a common one.  Why? I have no idea other than that is their preference or them trying to justify what they have or bought. Glad you like brand XYZ, I preferred something else. I'm never having issues,  keeping to myself or occasionally helping a buddy sight their optic is about it by spotting and using the reticle in mine. A couple reasons I stopped going to public ranges and joined clubs,  far less occurrences because less people.

I go by what I tell others when they ask what I think is best or better or say I have what I have for that logic. Be glad there is all these choices and go with what interests you and what you want.  At that point, you'll have the best for you. When it comes down to it these rifles are customized and personal. Will the Grendel get to 1600+? I don't know never tried it and don't know what it'll have left at that range. If you have gone that distance and hit... damn man!,  good job well done

I wonder how many people take a gun that's accurate at 100 yards to a 1000 yard range and do poorly. Then blame the caliber or platform because they don't understand what it takes to make consistent hits at 1000. I've seen plenty of people show up at the 1000 yard range and use the velocity printed on the box of ammo. Forget getting the right atmospheric conditions, many don't even have any sort of ballistic calculator. And since they don't understand this is necessary, they blame the caliber.

I don't think this escalated to 'caliber war'.

It is awesome that we have so many great options available right now.

I would say the 6.5 and 6 Creedmoor are definitely superior to the 308 for 1000+ but that doesn't mean the 308 is necessarily inadequate.

Same thing with 224V and 6.5 Grendel.  I acknowledge they are ballisitically superior to the 223, but if you are topping out at 800 yards, the difference becomes less and calling your wind accurately is more important than a little less drift.

I may find I regret going with a 223 Wylde.  If I do, I will torque on a new barrel and rock on.  

I need to get off the damn computer and get a few 73gr ELDs stuffed in cases because if the wind stays like it is now, I could do a little load testing this afternoon.  

Probably a lot.

Because a ton of guys will take the 50-200 yard zero as gospel without ever bothering to check their zero at 300-600, or even 200.  Show up at a 3-gun match and time out on medium range steel because they never confirmed zero at long range and don't understand how their reticle works.

I recognize that some guys don't have access to a range that offers shots beyond 100.  That would suck.

Nice , sounds similar to my logic. Like it,  get it shoot it, switch it if necessary if not keep it, enjoy it and start another.

I'd be headed to the range myself,  but headed down to the speedway to watch the start of the Rolex 24. Should be cool to see some cars.

Remington has sadly been notorious about this:

6mm Remington.  Larger case than .243.  Based on 7x57 Mauser.  Higher velocity, can shoot longer, heavier, higher BC bullets.  Essentially dead for all but handloaders.  Highly capable at 1,000 yards.

.280 Remington.  '06 case based.  Shoulder pushed out .050" to prevent accidental chambering in .270 Win.  Greater powder capacity,  can shoot heavier, higher BC bullets, true 7mm bullet with vast choices, higher velocity than 7mm-08, can be safely handloaded to within about 100-150 fps of 7mm Rem Mag with greater inherent accuracy.  Essentially dead to all but handloaders.  Perhaps the best all-around hunting cartridge for medium sized game in the world.  AI chamber version still popular in custom rifles.  .280 test barrels frequently the standard choice by bullet manufacturers to test accuracy of all 7mm bullets.

Remington 30 RAR.  Great ballistics in an AR15 rifle and magazine.  Near .308 performance (more like .300 Savage) in an AR15 package.  Dead on arrival.  Remington pulled the plug before they had enough rifles and ammo in tbe field to get user demand and feedback.

Just a few examples.  FWIW, I have multiple custom bolt guns in both 6mm Rem. and .280 Rem.  Handload for them and enjoy their excellent performance and relative rarety.

Most of the current breed of .223/5.56 and 6.5mm alternatives will also probably have a similar demise over time.  Just get loading dies, lots of cases or be ready to fireform them from other  brass, and enjoy what you choose, popularity be damned.  As long as you are shooting commonly available handloading components, you are good for decades.

260 Remington was nearly completely abandoned too.

I have a Valkyrie barrel on order. I figure it will be around for a couple years at least. Any more than 2 years and it'll be time to rebarrel anyways.

As a younger man, I once used a hammer during the process of changing grips on one of my ARs. Not my proudest moment, but not as unbelievably stupid as you might think. It was a Magpul polymer grip that had incorrect tolerances, too tight between the lips that fit onto the lower receiver. Instead of sanding/filing to the appropriate size, I lined up the detent spring correctly and had to give it a few whacks with a nylon hammer to seat it... Ended up realizing how incorrect it all seemed, returned the grip, and replaced it with a correctly manufactured pistol grip.

Not to derail this thread, but I had to defend to defend the Grip Hammering Guild of America!

"260 Remington was nearly completely abandoned too."

Remington still doesn't sell any match ammo for it.  Glad Federal and Hornady jumped into supporting my .260.