So I'm trying to find a load with this bullet that shoots better than 1.5- 2" out of my 20" WOA national match barrel.   I just re-barreled this upper, and it's been pretty disappointing thus far, being i have budget barrels that shoot light out, and this one doesn't so far, with the 2 bullets combos I've tried..   I've shot 69 bthp and hornady 75's, the 75's are readily available for me, and fairly cheap, and thats what im working with.

I'm reading H4895 seems to be the go to powder, but I can't find any within an hour of me.  Same goes for varget.   I have on hand, CFE223, H322, IMR3031, and BLC2.  

I've tried CFE223 today,  24.4,24.6,24.8, and 25 gr.  26 seemed to shoot best, around 1.5"
Same goes for H322, and BLC2.   I haven't tried the IMR yet, kinda wanting to stay in that 2700 fps ballpark.

I'm loading to mag length, but just using mixed headstamp brass, with CCI 400's.

Anyone have any good data to share with these powders and bullet?

Thanks.

try 24.3  or so of varget, load them as long as you can will help and only use one kind of brass like LC

25.5gr CFE223.

22.0gr IMR3031. I backtracked my dope to 2500fps MV from a 16". Might not go 2700fps from 20".

Load to 2.250" +/-0.007.

If that doesn't work, maybe 2.230".

Keep an eye out for cratering with CCI 400s.

Yeah. Suggest the powder he can't reasonably get.

Well OK then try 23 grains of H 322

Try a different bullet.

Seriously.

My WOA service rifle barrel shoots H75's OK when the H75's don't shed their jacket.

H75's have a thin jacket. 0.014" thickness.
SMK and RMR are 0.003" thicker.

I have to run H75's slower than I would like (less than 2700 fps)  in order to get them to keep their jacket intact.

CCI 400's are 0.005" thinner primer-cup than most 5.56-rated SRP's (.

I really dont' know why people persist in using 400's in the AR.

If you push pressure near 5.56 levels, its just a matter of time before you start piercing 400's.

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php

Attached File

Thanks.  I think im gonna try and find some new brass at a minimum.  Made a huge difference in my PRS rig.   I'll have to check and see what load I was using with H322. So far, all the groups have been about the same. Even factory Frontier 69bthp shot about the same.  The powder/primer situation isnt being helpful right now for sure!  Im gonna check out RMR's bullets, specs look decent and still cheaper than the Hornady's.

Its one of those deals, i use what i can find...lol.  I haven't seen anything but CCI primers around and on midway for quite some time now.  Guess i could go to 450's, i have a line on some of those.

A lot of powders have worked well with heavy match bullets in my rifles.

RE-15
Varget
H4895
Vihtavuori N140
IMR-8208-XBR

All of these are single based extruded powders except for RE-15.

Their burn rates are very similar. H4895 and IMR-8208-XBR will use 22.0 to 23.0 grains. RE-15, Varget and Vihtavuori N140 will use 23.0 to 24.0 grains.

You may need to try Sierra's or Nosler's 77's. All rifles have their preference. I have always got great groups with Sierra's 69's.

The hands down most accurate bullets inside 200 yards have been 52/53 grain match bullets even when fired from 1/7 twist barrels.

TAC is usually available. 24.0 of that.

Try 24.0 of CFE223.

Benchmark works really well with 77 SMK….would probably work with those bullets too.

I've had very good results with Hornady 75gr HPBT bullets for NRA/CMP highpower short line ammo.

24.2gr of N140 with Wolf primed brass. Last two matches I had a 6X and a 5x clean @ 300 yards. Rifle has a Bartlein 6.5 transitional twist with a wylde chamber. Never had one come apart on me either but I clean the hell out of my barrels and use JB on them every few matches.

B

I've been using CCI 450 primers for AR-15 match ammo since 1997.

450's are by-far my preferred primer.

I used to be an advocate of Varget. Its a good powder, but available today only in museums.

I now use TAC. Wish I had started using it instead of Varget sooner, because it flows SO MUCH better through the powder measure than Varget.

24.2 grains with a 69 for 200/300 (magazine length)
24.2 grains with an 80 for 600 (2.400" OAL)
Very accurate.

I'm shooting the same bullets out of my 20 inch AR and tried a half dozen powders before settling on IMR 8208 xbr. Not an easy one to find but it out performed everything else in MY rifle.

BTW, I've read/heard the same thing countless times about cci 400 primers but that's what I'm using with no issues even in 100 degree heat and my load is definately in 5.56 territory, in fact its above published data so i wont list it but YMMV.

Also agree you need to use same headstamp brass, I'm using once fired LC21/22 that I get for free .

Edit for typo.

I tried for years trying to get the 68/75 OTM's from Hornady to shoot.  Never happened.

Pure accuracy...69 gr SMK/CC with Varget 24.7-25.3 gr with a Rem 7.5 is nirvana.
The 77 gr SMK/CC with TAC and CCI 450 were almost as good as Varget with the 69.

75 gr Hornady HPBT-M (non-cannelured)
Winchester commercial brass
Winchester small rifle primer
24.0 gr VARGET or TAC    <-- tweak charge +/-.5 gr to your liking
OAL = 2.240"

VARGET was slightly more accurate than TAC but either works well.  I never bothered with any other powders, as these were the first I tried and both worked over a very wide range of charges.

Reloading For The AR-15:  Hornady 75 Grain BTHP







Hornady produces three different versions of their 75 grain open-tip-match bullet in 22 caliber (0.224”). For this article, we’ll be looking at the projectile that is colloquially referred to as the “T1”.





The T1 is available as a reloading component, with a product number of #2279 for the 100 count boxes. It’s also available in 600 and 4000 count boxes.





I use the Hornady 75 grain BTHP bullet to load match-grade hand-loads for my semi-automatic AR-15s chambered in 5.56mm/223 Remington. According to Ballistic Performance of Rifle Bullets by Bryan Litz, the Hornady 75 grain BTHP has an average G1 ballistic coefficient of 0.356 and an average G7 ballistic coefficient of 0.183.

The lot of T1 projectiles used for this article have a nominal length of 0.988” and I load them to a nominal COAL of 2.245”. When fired from a Colt SOCOM barrel with a 5.56mm NATO chamber, this COAL will create a jump to the lands of 178 thousandths of an inch. When fired from a Larue Stealth barrel with a 223 Wylde chamber, this COAL will create a jump to the lands of 115 thousandths of an inch and when fired from a Krieger barrel with a 223 Remington chamber, this COAL will create a jump to the lands of 78 thousandths of an inch.

The jump to the lands figures stated above where obtained using a Sinclair bullet seating depth gauge and a Forster 223 Remington 1.4636” head-space gauge. These figures are contingent upon a variety of variables, such as the particular chamber reamer that was used for your barrel, the number of rounds that have been fired through your barrel when the measurement is obtained, the particular lot of bullets used and whether you use a virgin case, a fired case, a resized case or a head-space gauge to obtain this measurement.







WARNING!
Reloading is an inherently dangerous activity. The information provided here is for educational purposes only. It is not intended to be used for the actual loading of ammunition by the reader. No warranty, guarantee or assurance that these loads are safe is stated, suggested or implied nor should any be inferred. Usage of this information for the actual loading of ammunition may result in malfunctions, damage and destruction of property and grave injury or death to beings human in nature or otherwise. Don't even view this information in the presence of children or small animals.



For this hand-load of the Hornady 75 grain BTHP bullet, I use virgin Lake City brass that has been weight-sorted, match-prepped and neck-sized. The cases are primed with Federal GM205M primers and charged with VihtaVuori N140 powder and as mentioned above, the T1 projectile is seated to a COAL of 2.245”. This process is conducted in a semi-progressive manner on a Dillon XL-650 press using a digital electronic powder dispenser and scale to dispense a powder charge of 24.1 grains of the VihtaVuori N140.













When chronographed from a 20” Colt A2 barrel, a 10-shot string of this hand-load fired over an Oehler 35P produced a muzzle velocity of 2638 FPS with a standard deviation of 4 FPS and a coefficient of variation of 0.15%. (The muzzle velocity was calculated from the instrumental velocity using Oehler Ballistic Explorer.) A 10-shot group fired from one of my Krieger barreled AR-15s, at distance of 100 yards using my bench-rest set-up, had an extreme spread of 0.526 MOA.





No canines were harmed during the testing of this ammunition.











...

Those H75's shoot real good if you keep the velocity down in the low 2600's and push them through a good barrel.

We were blowing them up pretty often by pushing them toward the high 2700's through dirty and tired barrels.

I've had them up to 3100 fps with no troubles but it is a good barrel, that's for sure.

AA2520.

I load 25.5gr under a Hornady 75gr. It's a tack driver out of my 18" SS FN upper

The powder charge doesn't affect your groups nearly as much as seating depth does. Try messing around with that some and see if your groups get any better

TAC 24.5 grains.  I'm getting sub moa (around .75 inch's) at 100 and 200 yards out of a 18 inch CLE barrel.  

Not the powder you have but I use it because it meters well out of my Dillion.

24.5 for me and it is indeed a laser of a round!

Not in a semi-automatic AR-15 chambered in 5.56/223 where seating depth is limited to magazine length.

...

I read this article because I bought some Hornaday 75 bthp. I didn't want maximum loads so I started with 23.6 grains of varget lake city brass same year. I weighed the powder for each. COAL is 2.255 just enough to fit the magazine. Case I have a Redding BR30. It weighs very accurate each time when you lock it down. I went to the range yesterday. I shot a few different bullets and then was going to zero with the 75 grain bullets. First shot was bad. Smoke coming from the gun and ejected Case had ruptured at the rim. I really don't know why iithis happened. I was well below max and under suggested 24 grains. Now I have to pull 99 bullets and start over. Any suggestions?

Which brand case?

Lake city 94 stamped

Winchester commercial .223 is almost identical to Lake City 5.56mm brass in both weight and internal volume.

.308/7.62x51mm is the opposite. Winchester commercial .308 has the highest internal volume and lowest case weight of any brass in that caliber. Lake City 7.62x51mm (and most NATO equivalents) are the heaviest cases with the lowest internal capacity. A 2.0 grain powder reduction is a requirement, not an option.

I consider 23.6 grains of Varget a warm load with 75/77 grain bullets in .223. 24.0 being close to NATO pressures. Primer selection has an effect. I use 24.5 grains of Varget with 69 grain SMK's as my reference load for competition and testing any rifle's potential accuracy. It's around 1.0 grain below maximum.

I load the 75gr Hornady exclusively with AA2520 now after many trials with various powders.

I worked up to 556 velocity with outstanding results using western powder data with 25.5gr's at 2.25 coal.

Rifle is an 18" SPR with FN stainless steel barrel.

Probably sheer luck (certainly ain't my skill) but I've always gotten good results at or just below starting load levels for Win748 and BLC2 with the few different bullets I've tried

Only thing close to yours that I've tried though has been just a single 10 shot group with the RMR 69gr BTHP which supposedly mimic the SMKs but 24.5gr BLC2 loaded to 2.235 OAL on a gusty day gave me a great starting point for load development.  Unfortunately, got hijacked by turkey season and then start of fishing season, but I think I'm gonna start working up a ladder this weekend maybe....

Savage 12FV w/ Mueller 8-32

Attached File

The USAMU uses Lake City brass for their competition handloads if anyone doubts the quality. They are not adverse to buying anything that works. Bullets by Berger, Lapua, Sierra and others are constantly tested for what works in tournaments.

25.4 gr CFE under that bullet was pretty good out of my gun.  Getting 1.5" shooting off a rest but not a lead sled or anything.  With more steady hands I think it would have been MOA from the 1-8 223 wylde barrel on that gun.

•I use 30.2 grains H2O for all my 5.56 calculations in Quickload.
•One-tenth grain change in H2O capacity changes pressure 500 psi.
•I suck at measuring water in rifle cases, so I use the numbers published at https://www.6mmbr.com/223rem.html

Attached File

A trick to get the water to sit level with the case mouth is to add a few drops of alcohol to the mix.

I was going to create my own thread but it looks like this one will helpful to put data in.  Keep in mind I've been reloading for about 2 weeks and this is my second load that I've built up.

Goal: .223 round that I can hunt (at 100) and medium range shoot with (600+/-)
Rifle (Parts Gun):
Aero upper, bcg, and 15" hand guard, ballistic advantage 16 inch mid 1/7, larue mbt for the trigger, some magpul stock that has a skittles holder and angled check rest.
Optic: PA 1-6 SFP with acss 5.56 shot at 6x

So far I've tested 7x rounds of 4 different charges on the spec below using Hornady 75 bthps:
Brass: once fired, swaged, trimmed FC
Primer: Winchester SR 5.56
Powder:  Hodgdon Benchmark
Seating: ~10 thou off the lands and still fits in mags.  I'll need to measure it.
Charge: 22-23.5 (book max)
Climate during shooting: 102 F, 35% humidity, 11 - 13 mph south wind (range sets up to shoot east)
Time between strings: ~10 minutes

My chrony red sucks and it took a dump half way through testing.  I need to get with the current times and get something better.  Looking at the Caldwell

FACTORY Hornady Black 75gr * I'm 95% sure it's using the 75gr projectile as I pulled apart one round and it matched what I had on hand.  Also looks like the they use TAC for powder*
FACTORY: 2505, 2512, 2458, 2528, 2477, 2479, 2500, 2495
22 gr fps: 2499, 2509, 2510, 2479, 2496, 2493, 2518
22.5 gr fps: 2552, 2550, 2531, 2492, 2538, 2548, 2541
23 gr fps: ** this is where the chrony took a dump. First read was at 3483.  I thought I just survived a double charge so I took out my .22lr that I was using to get the chrony set up and it said I was shooting .22lr at 4500fps, then 5700fps, then 8800fps.  Hmm, looks like the chrony doesn't chrony.  I got one "good" read at 2714 that wasn't an error or 32xxfps.  Gonna have to take it
23.5gr fps: Same thing as above but I got 2 "good" reads at 2642 and 2629.

Target Pics: Grey target is factory and moving from factory to the end is the loads in progressing order.  All shots at 100y


I've loaded 3 more 7x rounds of 29.1, 30, and 30.1 and will probably setting around there.

EDIT ^^ 100% typo  -- put this load on pause for TAC trials

Next up is starline brass with TAC as it's cheaper.



ETA: It was hot and I was swimming in my clothes -- not my best shooting.  

You are not getting remotely close to 10 thousandths off the lands with a Hornady 75 grain BTHP seated to magazine length.

The lot of T1 projectiles used for this article have a nominal length of 0.988” and I load them to a nominal COAL of 2.245”. When fired from a Colt SOCOM barrel with a 5.56mm NATO chamber, this COAL will create a jump to the lands of 178 thousandths of an inch. When fired from a Larue Stealth barrel with a 223 Wylde chamber, this COAL will create a jump to the lands of 115 thousandths of an inch and when fired from a Krieger barrel with a 223 Remington chamber, this COAL will create a jump to the lands of 78 thousandths of an inch.

....





...

Oof yeah, you right.  "Lands" not the right term. I'm around 2.265 on seat depth.
I guess I was looking at ring set from the seating die not thinking about this intelligently.

Didn’t read all the replies but for me, lever revolution powder.

Unless you are using cheap ASC/C-Products SS magazines, there is no way 2.265" is going to be 100% reliable from most magazines.

2.250" is a safe maximum OAL". It allows for burrs on match grade hollow-point bullets and insures feeding and functioning in virtually any rifle.

Unless you are loading long range bullets (80 grain or similar) one at a time, basically turning your AR-15 into a single shot rifle, loading long is impossible.

2.500" to 2.550" is common in 5.56mm NATO chambers for long range events, 2.470" is around max in a .223 Wylde when using Sierra's 80 grain Match King. Needless to say, it's impossible for these rounds to work in a magazine.

In my experience Hornady's 75 grain HPBT match bullet is very accurate if you keep the velocity around 2600 - 2650 fps from a 20" barrel. I usually lose close to 200 fps from the same ammo when fired through a 16" barrel. YMMV.

<Your last load data is a typo, virtually guaranteed to blow you and your firearm to kingdom come. It can't possibly fit inside a .223 case without overflowing.

Good info, I'll adjust depth 2.250.

When I first started shooting highpower competition I shot a lot of Hornady 75s because they were $2 a hundred cheaper than Sierra 77s.  I bought them in 500-bullet plastic wrapped sleeves.

I also found out I'd have to check cartridge length any time I changed to a new sleeve because ogive-to-leade bullet jump distance would change.  It became so annoying I gave away 1500 75s to a Hawaii junior team because it became 1) aggravating, and 2) difficult to remember which bullets and lots were longer than others I had previously loaded.

Not too bad a problem if I was only loading for myself, but I was also loading for my kid and some other juniors.