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TN, USA
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Posted: 11/27/2018 9:49:36 AM EDT
I'm looking for an optic for my Creedmoor and have narrowed it down to the Kahles K525i, Schmidt and Bender PM II 5-25, and Tangent Theta 5-25.
Not taking into consideration cost, which would be the better optic for my use, which will primarily be ringing steel out to 1k. |
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Posted: 11/27/2018 10:25:42 AM EDT
[#1]
If you need a wide FOV go with S&B.
I am very satisfied with the features on my K624i, but it has a narrow FOV compared to comparable scopes. |
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Posted: 11/27/2018 10:55:15 AM EDT
[#2]
Kahles has a better reticle than the others. That is what I would be looking at between the three.
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TN, USA
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Posted: 11/27/2018 11:10:49 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01:
Kahles has a better reticle than the others. That is what I would be looking at between the three. |
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Posted: 11/27/2018 11:47:57 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By molar: I love the looks of the SKMR3 reticle on the Kahles. I've read reviews that say the Kahles does have a narrow FOV at 25x, but that it is optically superior to the S&B, and that the Tangent Theta blows them all away in regards to optical properties and turrets. It has also been stated that the Kahles has less tunneling at lower powers than the S&B. I would like to look through a Tangent Theta to see what all the fuss is about, but no one locally carries them. Glass in any will be just fine. Pick it for the features and reticle. |
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Posted: 11/27/2018 12:48:17 PM EDT
[#5]
I run Kahles so I'm a little biased as far as that goes, but I do really like their reticles. All those scopes are high quality. The TT is nice, but price and reticles are a turn off for me.
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Posted: 11/27/2018 1:10:59 PM EDT
[#6]
Kahles would be my choice between the three too.
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TN, USA
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Posted: 11/29/2018 3:29:24 PM EDT
[#7]
Let's throw the NF ATACR F1 5-24x56, 7-35x56, S&B ultrashort 3-20, and the Minox ZP5 5-25 into the mix.
Is the Kahles K525i still top dog? Did they fix the issues with CA they had on the K624i line? |
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Posted: 11/29/2018 3:52:50 PM EDT
[#8]
Better throw the Vortex Razor II 4.5-27x56 in that mix too as it fits in that class.
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TN, USA
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Posted: 11/29/2018 4:22:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01:
Better throw the Vortex Razor II 4.5-27x56 in that mix too as it fits in that class. Is the ATACR glass as good as the Kahles? |
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Posted: 11/29/2018 4:45:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By molar: Way too heavy. They look great though. Is the ATACR glass as good as the Kahles? The AMG is only 28.5 ounces and lighter than the others if weight was an issue. |
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Posted: 11/29/2018 4:55:10 PM EDT
[#11]
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TN, USA
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Posted: 11/29/2018 9:30:01 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Repairman_Jack:
Here's some light reading for you. http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/08/13/tactical-scopes-mechanical-performance-part-1/ http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/08/22/tactical-scopes-mechanical-performance-part-2/ http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/09/01/tactical-scopes-mechanical-performance-summary/ I wonder what optical differences there are between the two? |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 9:24:04 AM EDT
[#13]
I'd like to see a comparison between the Minox ZP5 5-25 and the Kahles 624i.
I've read many reports of the Minox having superior glass. All else, not sure. Currently own the K624i and the CA is annoying. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 12/1/2018 10:00:02 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scottyman:
I'd like to see a comparison between the Minox ZP5 5-25 and the Kahles 624i. I've read many reports of the Minox having superior glass. All else, not sure. Currently own the K624i and the CA is annoying. I've heard the Minox has superior glass to just about anything, except for the TT. There are reports of broken Minox's over on sniper's hide though. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 12/8/2018 1:31:51 PM EDT
[#15]
There is no comparison really. The TT is the best scope out there you can buy. Optically it's better. The turrets are the best in the industry. The new reticle is now available. I finally ordered myself one and i'm hoping it will be here by Christmas. Picked one up from CS Tactical for $4300 shipped.
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TN, USA
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Posted: 12/8/2018 2:58:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By taulce02:
There is no comparison really. The TT is the best scope out there you can buy. Optically it's better. The turrets are the best in the industry. The new reticle is now available. I finally ordered myself one and i'm hoping it will be here by Christmas. Picked one up from CS Tactical for $4300 shipped. I found a NIB Minox ZP5 with MR4 reticle for $2600. Hope to have it in a week or so. It seems that most people who buy one end up with multiples, so that speaks volumes. I need a couple more precision optics, so I'm interested to hear what you think about the TT. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 12/8/2018 4:31:32 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By molar: Let me know what you think once you get it. I found a NIB Minox ZP5 with MR4 reticle for $2600. Hope to have it in a week or so. It seems that most people who buy one end up with multiples, so that speaks volumes. I need a couple more precision optics, so I'm interested to hear what you think about the TT. |
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Posted: 12/8/2018 8:57:52 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By molar:
From what I've read, the K525i handles CA a lot better than the K624i. I'm trying to find one locally to look through before plunking down $3k plus for it. I've heard the Minox has superior glass to just about anything, except for the TT. There are reports of broken Minox's over on sniper's hide though. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By molar:
Originally Posted By Scottyman:
I'd like to see a comparison between the Minox ZP5 5-25 and the Kahles 624i. I've read many reports of the Minox having superior glass. All else, not sure. Currently own the K624i and the CA is annoying. I've heard the Minox has superior glass to just about anything, except for the TT. There are reports of broken Minox's over on sniper's hide though. |
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Posted: 12/8/2018 9:14:24 PM EDT
[#19]
Chromatic Aberation....the bluish/purple coloration you can see on the edge of objects. Particularly noticeable on light colored objects.
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CA, USA
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Posted: 12/18/2018 12:09:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: FourT6and2]
[#20]
I've used them all. I went with TT. Forgetting cost, it's got the best glass, the best turrets, the easiest parallax adjustment, the easiest zero stop function, it doesn't tunnel, it has non-translating turrets, and something most never pay attention to... it has a constant eye relief regardless of zoom setting. Some scopes' eye relief changes slightly as you change the zoom setting. That means you have to move your head and adjust cheek weld if you go from say, 10x to 25x. Not with the TT. One eye relief. No moving your head.
I have no problem with the reticle. The new one looks nice though. I really want to like the Kahles but I don't. Same with Nightforce. Had the K624i and the Nightforce 7-35x and S&B 5-25x PMII. Sent them all back and went with TT. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 12/19/2018 9:12:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: molar]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FourT6and2:
I've used them all. I went with TT. Forgetting cost, it's got the best glass, the best turrets, the easiest parallax adjustment, the easiest zero stop function, it doesn't tunnel, it has non-translating turrets, and something most never pay attention to... it has a constant eye relief regardless of zoom setting. Some scopes' eye relief changes slightly as you change the zoom setting. That means you have to move your head and adjust cheek weld if you go from say, 10x to 25x. Not with the TT. One eye relief. No moving your head. I have no problem with the reticle. The new one looks nice though. I really want to like the Kahles but I don't. Same with Nightforce. Had the K624i and the Nightforce 7-35x and S&B 5-25x PMII. Sent them all back and went with TT. My Minox ZP5 5-25x56 MR4 showed up a couple of days ago. Optically speaking, I don't see how it can get any better than that. The turrets are ok, but there is still resistance going through the second revolution, even with the updated turrets. It doesn't bother me because there are 15 mils per revolution, so I won't dial past that anyway. The Minox doesn't tunnel and CA doesn't appear to be a problem. I want to try a S&B 3-20 ultrashort on a grendel next |
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WV, USA
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Posted: 12/20/2018 8:55:10 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By molar: The Kahles has a CA problem, the S&B 5-25 tunnels, and NF glass has quite a bit of variation scope to scope from what I've seen. My Minox ZP5 5-25x56 MR4 showed up a couple of days ago. Optically speaking, I don't see how it can get any better than that. The turrets are ok, but there is still resistance going through the second revolution, even with the updated turrets. It doesn't bother me because there are 15 mils per revolution, so I won't dial past that anyway. The Minox doesn't tunnel and CA doesn't appear to be a problem. I want to try a S&B 3-20 ultrashort on a grendel next My Kahles on the other hand has been amazing. Blew my S&B out of the water, although most people will say they prefer the S&B optically. |
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Posted: 12/27/2018 2:34:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: cheekibreeki]
[#23]
Usually people just prefer the coatings. Few places on Earth are making the lenses used for various scope manufacturers. Glass in Nightforce ATACR is the same glass used in Vortex Razor HD II and others out of LOW Japan.
Basically what I'm saying is go after tracking quality, then reticle, and then glass quality. Lastly ask what would happen if your scope was broken out of negligence, or defect. Played with Tangent Thetas before. Personally I don't see a justification to the cost over an S&B or ATACR. |
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Posted: 12/27/2018 2:46:15 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01:
Kahles has a better reticle than the others. That is what I would be looking at between the three. |
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Posted: 12/29/2018 3:02:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AWDeity]
[#25]
For what it’s worth, PRB has released their 2018 What the Pros use blogs through the month.
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2018/12/21/best-scope/ Razor G2 is well represented, but beaten in numbers by people running the two different Kahles scopes. ETA - I am NOT a PRS shooter - but I like to follow the trends, and pick up used gear at the end of a season...  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 12/30/2018 2:00:15 AM EDT
[#26]
PM2
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/20/2019 2:15:49 PM EDT
[#27]
I also own both of those optics along with a few others. Optically, mechanically and reticle the k525i is just better, in my opinion.
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2019 12:36:19 PM EDT
[#28]
Sounds like you made your decision but you should read Ilya’s, ”dark lord of optics”, optics comparisons. You can find him on Snipers Hide. Best reviews hands down.
In my experience people will almost always justify why ”their” scopes are “the best”, so these types of questions are tough. It’s human nature and hey different strokes for different folks! |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/25/2019 2:08:21 AM EDT
[#29]
He’s probably one of the few guys who actually knows what he’s talking about. The problem with the hide is the amount of self proclaimed experts who are biased with the equipment they own and bad talk everything else.
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Posted: 11/3/2019 11:30:19 AM EDT
[#30]
What ever one is the cheapest and more range time.
Neither of choices are going to make or break you at 1k. All are great. |
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Posted: 11/3/2019 8:34:19 PM EDT
[#31]
Barska.
/thread You’re welcome. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 12/4/2019 9:15:42 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mr_Toyz:
Sounds like you made your decision but you should read Ilya’s, ”dark lord of optics”, optics comparisons. You can find him on Snipers Hide. Best reviews hands down. In my experience people will almost always justify why ”their” scopes are “the best”, so these types of questions are tough. It’s human nature and hey different strokes for different folks! I am accumulating all of my impressions on fancy scope together and they will be on my website in the next couple of weeks. A few videos are already up on youtube. As far as the original question goes, optically, Kahles has some work to do. Tangent, ZCO, S&B, March and Minox are a good step above. Overall, I think Tangent is still the best, but ZCO is close and S&B is right there too. It really comes down to what you are looking for. I test a lot of scopes and honestly, with the top contenders the choice really comes down to personal preferences. Once I am done sending all of the scopes I test back, the stuff goes back onto my rifles is usually Tangent Theta and March, depending on the specific gun, although I am very attached to my Vortex AMG as well. I can use anything I want. I am not limited in my scope choices in any way shape or form. Those are the ones I seem to come back to. ILya www.darklordofoptics.com |
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Posted: 12/6/2019 6:40:38 AM EDT
[#33]
Consider an ATACR 5-25 or a Minox ZP5
5-25 (mr4 reticle  )
Owned a Kahles 624i with the AMR reticle, was a nice scope, didn't overly impress me. I use my Minox ZP5 5-25 mr4 a lot and really like it. |
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Posted: 12/6/2019 6:41:18 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By molar: Way too heavy. They look great though. Is the ATACR glass as good as the Kahles? The Atacr glass is BETTER then the Kahles |
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Posted: 12/6/2019 6:42:32 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scottyman:
I'd like to see a comparison between the Minox ZP5 5-25 and the Kahles 624i. I've read many reports of the Minox having superior glass. All else, not sure. Currently own the K624i and the CA is annoying. |
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