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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/17/2018 5:56:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: USMC_JA]
SuperJlarge invited me to post shooting results in his thread for this rifle. However, I decided to start my own in order to avoid detracting from the exceptional and immense work he is putting into his thread.
FIRST, SECOND, and THIRD UPDATE IN THE THREAD BELOW Details: JP LRP07 - .308 chamber 20inch JP Supermatch barrel, medium contour, 1:11 twist, rifle gas Sandman-L Vortex Razor HD AMG 6-24x50 (EBR-7B FFP (MRAD)) All of the below are 5 shot groups at 100 yards with factory ammo. These are the better groups for the day. Current round count is 46. Yes, 46 rounds in the logbook. It was new and unfired until this morning. I fired the following loads in the rifle: 168gr FGMM 175gr FGMM 168gr Norma Match 168gr Sig Sauer OTM The rifle showed a clear preference for 168gr weight bullets. However, even the 175grains hovered around 1-1.25 MOA. But the 168s are showing some real promise. I have 5 other factory match loads ranging from 155-175gr that I am going to keep trying this fall/winter. Rifle 
These two groups are with 168gr Sig OTM. The rifle consistently favored this specific ammo today. 
168 gr FGMM 
ETA: Title change to be more, ahem, accurate. |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 10:32:29 AM EDT
[#1]
Outstanding groups from a brand new rifle.
I assume all were fired suppressed ? Be sure to try the Hornady Amer. Gunner 155gr... my FN CHF CL'd 20" 1n12 loves it. ( And it is relatively inexpensive, in the 200rd bulk can. ) |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/18/2018 3:32:29 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bfoosh06:
Outstanding groups from a brand new rifle. I assume all were fired suppressed ? Be sure to try the Hornady Amer. Gunner 155gr... my FN CHF CL'd 20" 1n12 loves it. ( And it is relatively inexpensive, in the 200rd bulk can. ) Not all were suppressed. I was playing with the gas system while running the 168 and 175 FGMM. The Norma and Sig were suppressed. I'll run them both again suppressed and see what, if anything, it changes. I'll also grab some of the Hornady and see how it do. Thanks. |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 2:50:02 PM EDT
[#3]
Love that rifle. It's on my must buy list.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2018 7:35:35 AM EDT
[#4]
I just picked up a used LRP-308 with 18" barrel. I got same results as you with 168gr FGMM and my 18" didn't like the 175gr either. Enjoy your rifle.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2018 11:46:45 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By poortrader:
I just picked up a used LRP-308 with 18" barrel. I got same results as you with 168gr FGMM and my 18" didn't like the 175gr either. Enjoy your rifle. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 5:16:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bfoosh06]
[#6]
Just a suggestion.... when you change brands, weights, etc of ammo ( IE the 175gr ).... Try wasting the first 5 rounds on target.
IMHO, ( and while I have no quantifiable proof ) a barrel needs wants to be seasoned to the next different round. Those 5 wasted rounds will season it in ( or even maybe season me in to it ) Having fired a bunch of ( preferred ) 10rd groups , with a huge variety of different ammos... I have noticed the first 5 slowly center into a group and the next 5 are typically a much better cluster. This doesn't happen all the time, but it has happened enough for my dim-witted mind to notice. I have reached the point of watching for it. Just a suggestion. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 7:34:25 PM EDT
[#7]
^^^ +1
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Posted: 11/30/2018 8:34:43 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bfoosh06:
Just a suggestion.... when you change brands, weights, etc of ammo ( IE the 175gr ).... Try wasting the first 5 rounds on target. IMHO, ( and while I have no quantifiable proof ) a barrel needs wants to be seasoned to the next different round. Those 5 wasted rounds will season it in ( or even maybe season me in to it ) Having fired a bunch of ( preferred ) 10rd groups , with a huge variety of different ammos... I have noticed the first 5 slowly center into a group and the next 5 are typically a much better cluster. This doesn't happen all the time, but it has happen enough for my dim-witted mind to notice. I have reached the point of watching for it. Just a suggestion. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/1/2018 4:48:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: USMC_JA]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bfoosh06:
Just a suggestion.... when you change brands, weights, etc of ammo ( IE the 175gr ).... Try wasting the first 5 rounds on target. IMHO, ( and while I have no quantifiable proof ) a barrel needs wants to be seasoned to the next different round. Those 5 wasted rounds will season it in ( or even maybe season me in to it ) Having fired a bunch of ( preferred ) 10rd groups , with a huge variety of different ammos... I have noticed the first 5 slowly center into a group and the next 5 are typically a much better cluster. This doesn't happen all the time, but it has happen enough for my dim-witted mind to notice. I have reached the point of watching for it. Just a suggestion. I have been firing 4 5-shot groups of each specific ammo type. Then I will clean the barrel (after each 20 shots) when switching ammo types. As you point out, the first group is generally the worst of the bunch. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/1/2018 5:00:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: USMC_JA]
[#10]
First update
December 1, 2018 Second day at the range with this rifle. Ammo fired today: 168gr Hornady Black A-Max 168gr Norma Match 175gr Remington BTHP Match 155gr PPU Match TLDR version: 168gr FGMM and Sig 168gr OTM are still the leaders in the club house. And I need a cantilever scope mount. Maxed out the LOP on the PRS and still not quite comfortable. 168gr Hornady Black A-Max This ammo hovers around .75-1 MOA. But I got one nice group from it. I might buy one more box and see if this group is repeatable. 
The 175 gr Remington was generally 1-1.5 MOA. Best group of the day with it. 
The gun did not like the 155gr PPU. Most groups were 1.5-2 MOA. Here is the best one of the day. 
I forgot to take pics of the Norma Match. It was about the same as the Hornady. ETA: Changed to first update |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 12/2/2018 12:54:27 AM EDT
[#11]
since this gun is liking 168's if you handload give this load a try. shot in the .3's for me in a douglas barreled savage and equally well in my cousins tikka CTR
Hornady "Match" Brass trimmed 2.005" 210m Primer 168 Amax 43.3gr 8208xbr 2.815" COAL |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/3/2018 9:47:27 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By garred8787:
since this gun is liking 168's if you handload give this load a try. shot in the .3's for me in a douglas barreled savage and equally well in my cousins tikka CTR Hornady "Match" Brass trimmed 2.005" 210m Primer 168 Amax 43.3gr 8208xbr 2.815" COAL |
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USA
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Posted: 12/4/2018 1:23:08 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USMC_JA:
Second update December 1, 2018 Second day at the range with this rifle. Ammo fired today: 168gr Hornady Black A-Max 168gr Norma Match 175gr Remington BTHP Match 155gr PPU Match TLDR version: 168gr FGMM and Sig 168gr OTM are still the leaders in the club house. And I need a cantilever scope mount. Maxed out the LOP on the PRS and still not quite comfortable. 168gr Hornady Black A-Max This ammo hovers around .75-1 MOA. But I got one nice group from it. I might buy one more box and see if this group is repeatable. https://i.imgur.com/hUnTFqL.jpg?1 The 175 gr Remington was generally 1-1.5 MOA. Best group of the day with it. https://i.imgur.com/fHKkPMB.jpg The gun did not like the 155gr PPU. Most groups were 1.5-2 MOA. Here is the best one of the day.
I forgot to take pics of the Norma Match. It was about the same as the Hornady. |
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Posted: 12/4/2018 5:52:05 AM EDT
[#14]
Staple.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/4/2018 11:20:56 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
Staple. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/10/2018 11:00:02 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USMC_JA: Thanks for the info. Sadly, I do not, yet, handload. At some point, that will be my next hobby. Doesn't that BCG feel like it is riding on ball bearings and lubed with baby snot? 
On a side note, when you're shooting your groups, how many rounds are you putting in the mag? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/11/2018 1:21:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: USMC_JA]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FALex: Brother, if you aren't handloading, you're pissing in the wind with an LRP. And I'm not saying that to be a dick. The LRP is a work of art. It was designed to be "fine tuned." It's going to still be an accurate rifle with factory ammo, but you're going to want to fine tune the shit out of some loads for that bad boy. I've had my LRP for a few years now (it's chambered in .260), and it has put together a few sub-quarter-minute groups, and too many sub-half-minute groups (this is with five shot groups, not three. If I did three shot groups, some of them would look like one hole). It is overwhelmingly accurate, will keep up with damn near any custom bolt gun in terms of precision. The crazy thing is that I use shitty .243 Winchester brass and it still produces these amazing groups. Doesn't that BCG feel like it is riding on ball bearings and lubed with baby snot?
On a side note, when you're shooting your groups, how many rounds are you putting in the mag? And yes, the rifle is one freaking smooth shooter. Between the silent capture spring, adjustable gas setting, and suppressor, it is a shear joy to shoot. The accuracy is not looking half-bad either. Got some more factory ammo to try though. 
ETA: I'm loading 5 rounds at a time and slow firing. I mean really slow firing. 1-2 minutes between each shot. |
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Posted: 12/11/2018 4:37:22 PM EDT
[#18]
If you're shooting for groups try putting a snap cap on bottom. It's been noted but many that the last round out of the mag is prone to be a flier if your position isn't perfect.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/12/2018 12:08:02 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By newguy2k3:
If you're shooting for groups try putting a snap cap on bottom. It's been noted but many that the last round out of the mag is prone to be a flier if your position isn't perfect. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/21/2018 10:47:14 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By newguy2k3:
If you're shooting for groups try putting a snap cap on bottom. It's been noted but many that the last round out of the mag is prone to be a flier if your position isn't perfect. Anyhow, I'm glad to see another satisfied JP customer. I am going to have my .260 turned into a 6.5 NeedISayMoore once it is shot out. Keep us posted on how it goes. I believe it may even tighten up after you have broken your barrel in a little bit. |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 10:55:31 PM EDT
[#21]
I don't know if it's extra bolt speed from there not being another round under the bolt or what. I have some 6.5 Cm snap caps but they don't feed very well. I try to use them rather than risk setback and eventually trashing another round.
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Posted: 12/21/2018 11:02:42 PM EDT
[#22]
Good work OP!
Glad to see the weather is cooperating more for you than it is for me here in GA. |
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Posted: 12/25/2018 4:05:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bravo5two]
[#23]
That's how any JP rifle should shoots, good work OP! you did well
About the suggestion for snap cap for the 6th round, I actually believe in doing that since I've seen enough of 1st or 5th one be the flier. For bench testing, I always load 7, 1st and 7th ones are cheap FMJs, burn the 1st one down range, and let the next 5 be the grouping shots and then empty out the chamber (7th round). |
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Posted: 12/26/2018 11:45:31 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Good work OP! Glad to see the weather is cooperating more for you than it is for me here in GA. However, my wallet is starting to generate a strong dislike for you. I've started collecting parts for a 5.56 SPR build now: Noveske Gen III lower MUR-1A Geissele Mk 16 Geissele DMR trigger Geissele Maritime Bolt Catch Vltor RE-A5 SpringCo Green Spring Radian talon safety WOA small parts Barrel will be an SPR contour Krieger or Bartlein from Compass Lake. Nightforce NXS 2.5-10x42 will ride on top. I've done plenty of run and gun while shooting 3-gun. But chasing tiny little groups is addictive. Damn you.
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Posted: 12/26/2018 11:53:07 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bravo5two:
That's how any JP rifle should shoots, good work OP! you did well
About the suggestion for snap cap for the 6th round, I actually believe in doing that since I've seen enough of 1st or 5th one be the flier. For bench testing, I always load 7, 1st and 7th ones are cheap FMJs, burn the 1st one down range, and let the next 5 be the grouping shots and then empty out the chamber (7th round). |
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Posted: 12/26/2018 12:18:58 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USMC_JA: Thanks for the compliment and the suggestion on using FMJ ammo to offset variables from the magazine. I like the idea. Focus on how you load the first round. From rifles that shoot, I’ve seen more variability on the first round than the 5th, and I believe it to be due to the force exerted on the round during loading. Try to chamber the first rd with as much force as the other 4 will see with cycling if your not doing so to see if it helps. Good shooting! Making me consider a JP barrel once I burn out my current 6.5creed barrel. |
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Posted: 12/29/2018 4:29:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: USMC_JA]
[#27]
UPDATE 2 - DECEMBER 29, 2018
Things we learned today: 1. Sadly, it appears this barrel does not like having a suppressor hanging off the end of it. 2. Sending that 5th round home when you have a good group can be TOUGH. As above, all were 5 shot groups at 100 yards. Consistent with the above discussion, I loaded a "dummy" 6th round (first round to actually be loaded in the magazine) to keep the 5-shot string as consistent as possible. Rounds tested today: Hornady 168gr BTHP Match Black Hills 168gr BTHP Match SSA 168gr Match I started the day with the Hornady Match and was getting meh groups with the gun suppressed. Generally 1-1.5 MOA at 100 yards. Nothing great. I then switched to the Black Hills 168 gr BTHP and got two groups like this: 
Given the reputation this ammo carries with it, I thought something was up. So, for shits and grins, I took the can off and fired another two groups. This was the first group with the suppressor off. 
Next group. (Here is where I fucked up the last shot. Honestly, I saw another good group and pushed it. Normally, I don't call fliers but I knew this one was bad the moment I let it go.) 
Switch to the SSA (Notice another "flier?"). 
The SSA is showing promise as well and the Black Hills is fucking expensive. But now that the suppressor variable has presented itself, I might retest some of the previous left overs to see if things improve with those loads. Was really hoping the Sandman would be a dedicated suppressor for this gun. Oh well, guess I know have an excuse to buy a Thunderbeast. |
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Posted: 12/29/2018 8:35:29 PM EDT
[#28]
Does that one have an adjustable gas block? Might try turning it down with the can on and it may settle the groups back down some. Technically it shouldn't make a difference but an overgassed gun will exploit any issues with the shooter more.
I've yet to see a suppressor with a good mount make a gun shoot worse. Thunderbeast brake mounts, surefire socoms and direct thread. I have a 51t 762-sd and it's the one can that increases group size. |
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Posted: 12/29/2018 9:10:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By newguy2k3:
Does that one have an adjustable gas block? Might try turning it down with the can on and it may settle the groups back down some. Technically it shouldn't make a difference but an overgassed gun will exploit any issues with the shooter more. I've yet to see a suppressor with a good mount make a gun shoot worse. Thunderbeast brake mounts, surefire socoms and direct thread. I have a 51t 762-sd and it's the one can that increases group size. See the POI shift? It is 4-5 MOA. Repeatable. But that shift feels large. It appears to me the suppressor is having a substantial effect on this particular barrel. I'm open to any theories because I bought this can specifically for this gun. I'd really like to make it work. But really hard to be upset about the accuracy this barrel is demonstrating once fed ammo it likes. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 12/30/2018 5:05:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: azmp5]
[#30]
I dont have a factory JP rifle but my 308 uses a POF upper/lower/rail but everything else is JP (except the trigger is a HSNM).
I find it alittle shocking that ur barrel doesnt like the suppressor on it but then again every barrel is different. As far as ammo, my JP HATES 147gr anything... factory or reloads. I found 175s smks work best. Then 168 amax. For some reason the 178amax dont do as well, same as the 168 smks. Thankfully I was into reloading already so fine tuning a load was possible. It does ok with factory stuff, and imo the best factory ammo, for my rifle, is black hills or FGMM. That being said I cant think of the last time I shot factory ammo through that gun. |
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Posted: 12/31/2018 5:17:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By azmp5:
I dont have a factory JP rifle but my 308 uses a POF upper/lower/rail but everything else is JP (except the trigger is a HSNM). I find it alittle shocking that ur barrel doesnt like the suppressor on it but then again every barrel is different. As far as ammo, my JP HATES 147gr anything... factory or reloads. I found 175s smks work best. Then 168 amax. For some reason the 178amax dont do as well, same as the 168 smks. Thankfully I was into reloading already so fine tuning a load was possible. It does ok with factory stuff, and imo the best factory ammo, for my rifle, is black hills or FGMM. That being said I cant think of the last time I shot factory ammo through that gun. The gun has really preferred 168gr pills. However, as I stated above, now that I think the suppressor is causing something funky, I might retest some of the left over 175 gr and 155 gr ammo to see if things improve. |
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Posted: 12/31/2018 5:34:17 PM EDT
[#32]
No slack or play in your suppressor mount? I'm not familiar with the mounting system on that one. Try a different brake/FH if you have one?
That amount of shift really doesn't sound that crazy to me. You're hanging a pound or more off the end of the barrel. Hell I see a shift with a suppressor wrap vs not on bolt guns. |
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Posted: 12/31/2018 5:49:35 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By newguy2k3:
No slack or play in your suppressor mount? I'm not familiar with the mounting system on that one. Try a different brake/FH if you have one? That amount of shift really doesn't sound that crazy to me. You're hanging a pound or more off the end of the barrel. Hell I see a shift with a suppressor wrap vs not on bolt guns. But I also don't believe in removing parts from a precision system unless absolutely necessary. |
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Posted: 1/1/2019 2:33:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: USMC_JA]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By newguy2k3:
No slack or play in your suppressor mount? I'm not familiar with the mounting system on that one. Try a different brake/FH if you have one? That amount of shift really doesn't sound that crazy to me. You're hanging a pound or more off the end of the barrel. Hell I see a shift with a suppressor wrap vs not on bolt guns. The zero shift does not really concern me. The groups opening up with the can attached do. |
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Posted: 1/1/2019 3:37:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bfoosh06]
[#35]
Welcome to the world of barrel harmonics.
It really doesn't take much to open up groups, and given the added weight on the end of your barrel, I am a little surprised the rifle still shot that well with the suppressor. I'll bet one of the other factory rounds will perform better. ( And some worse ?! ) One of these days I would love to see a test between barrel profiles with a suppressor. "If" it makes you feel any better, my Browning BAR MkII ( 300WM ) with its "B.O.S.S." adjustable tuning system... you could tighten up and / or ruin your groups by simply screwing the system in or out slightly. Browning supplied suggested starting points for different bullet weights. IMHO, it is a great way to see how little it takes to alter group sizes from barrel harmonics. https://www.browning.com/support/frequently-asked-questions/boss-system.html Does anyone know how to alter barrel harmonics with a suppressor attached ? |
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Posted: 1/1/2019 4:21:10 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bfoosh06:
Welcome to the world of barrel harmonics. It really doesn't take much to open up groups, and given the added weight on the end of your barrel, I am a little surprised the rifle still shot that well with the suppressor. I'll bet one of the other factory rounds will perform better. ( And some worse ?! ) One of these days I would love to see a test between barrel profiles with a suppressor. "If" it makes you feel any better, my Browning BAR MkII ( 300WM ) with its "B.O.S.S." adjustable tuning system... you could tighten up and / or ruin your groups by simply screwing the system in or out slightly. Browning supplied suggested starting points for different bullet weights. IMHO, it is a great way to see how little it takes to alter group sizes from barrel harmonics. https://www.browning.com/support/frequently-asked-questions/boss-system.html Does anyone know how to alter barrel harmonics with a suppressor attached ? I know barrel harmonics are a thing. However, my experience and understanding was that most suppressors actually dampen out the harmonics a bit and generally enhance precision potential.....not the opposite. However, it appears that the opposite is, in fact, at play with this particular sample. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:21:49 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USMC_JA:
Thanks, man. You were the inspiration for doing this thread. I'm not putting in half the work you are but trying to add some quality info to this subforum. However, my wallet is starting to generate a strong dislike for you. I've started collecting parts for a 5.56 SPR build now: Noveske Gen III lower MUR-1A Geissele Mk 16 Geissele DMR trigger Geissele Maritime Bolt Catch Vltor RE-A5 SpringCo Green Spring Radian talon safety WOA small parts Barrel will be an SPR contour Krieger or Bartlein from Compass Lake. Nightforce NXS 2.5-10x42 will ride on top. I've done plenty of run and gun while shooting 3-gun. But chasing tiny little groups is addictive. Damn you. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USMC_JA:
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Good work OP! Glad to see the weather is cooperating more for you than it is for me here in GA. However, my wallet is starting to generate a strong dislike for you. I've started collecting parts for a 5.56 SPR build now: Noveske Gen III lower MUR-1A Geissele Mk 16 Geissele DMR trigger Geissele Maritime Bolt Catch Vltor RE-A5 SpringCo Green Spring Radian talon safety WOA small parts Barrel will be an SPR contour Krieger or Bartlein from Compass Lake. Nightforce NXS 2.5-10x42 will ride on top. I've done plenty of run and gun while shooting 3-gun. But chasing tiny little groups is addictive. Damn you. Always great to inspire others to test their equipment and post their results. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:27:40 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bfoosh06:
Welcome to the world of barrel harmonics. Does anyone know how to alter barrel harmonics with a suppressor attached ? 
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:40:17 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge:
A mirage cover may offer enough change in weight to cause a change if you’re close enough to an optimum harmonic frequency. Perhaps you could even add weight to the mirage cover, but it would need to be rigid and not induce additional variation. The other option....cutting off a portion of the barrel. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:
Welcome to the world of barrel harmonics. Does anyone know how to alter barrel harmonics with a suppressor attached ? |
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USA
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Posted: 1/19/2019 11:09:02 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ziarifleman:
I might try some lead wire around the can at different points. |
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Posted: 1/28/2019 2:23:41 PM EDT
[#41]
January 27 - UPDATE Mini-update 2.5. Had a small window to hit the range this weekend. Only had one box of ammo, however, I was able to do a limited comparison with a Sandman K in stead of the Sandman L. Setting aside the fact that the gun did not really like this ammo, the K did not appear to have much effect on the group sizes. Lead horse is the L just doesn't get along with this barrel. Without Sandman K 
 With Sandman K 
Testing will continue as time permits. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/28/2019 10:26:57 PM EDT
[#42]
I am not familiar with Dead Air can models to know about the Sandman L and K. I am, however, going to guess that they are both QD mounted? If they are, I would continue to expect nothing but piss poor accuracy from them. I know a local SWAT sniper squad who were wanting to run Gemtech cans that were QD mounted to their rifles. Unfortunately, they observed nothing but terrible accuracy from all of their rifles every time they mounted those cans on.
They then tested direct thread cans, which brought the accuracy back up to a much more acceptable level, though still not as precise as the rifles with no cans on them. I have witnessed this same issue with some of the competition shooters I have shot with. I know I'm just some guy on the internet and sometimes it's hard to believe things read on the internet, but this is 100% truth. I am sure there are many others who can attest to this anomaly. I'm sure it has something to do with the fact that there is no direct interface with the barrel because the only interfacing with the rifle is via the brake/QD mount, but I'm no academic at this shit, I'm just a shooter who observes a lot. |
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Posted: 1/29/2019 3:28:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: USMC_JA]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FALex:
I am not familiar with Dead Air can models to know about the Sandman L and K. I am, however, going to guess that they are both QD mounted? If they are, I would continue to expect nothing but piss poor accuracy from them. I know a local SWAT sniper squad who were wanting to run Gemtech cans that were QD mounted to their rifles. Unfortunately, they observed nothing but terrible accuracy from all of their rifles every time they mounted those cans on. They then tested direct thread cans, which brought the accuracy back up to a much more acceptable level, though still not as precise as the rifles with no cans on them. I have witnessed this same issue with some of the competition shooters I have shot with. I know I'm just some guy on the internet and sometimes it's hard to believe things read on the internet, but this is 100% truth. I am sure there are many others who can attest to this anomaly. I'm sure it has something to do with the fact that there is no direct interface with the barrel because the only interfacing with the rifle is via the brake/QD mount, but I'm no academic at this shit, I'm just a shooter who observes a lot. I will add, without saying you are wrong, that the Dead Air Key MO QD system is a taper mount that is generally very well regarded for its consistency and reliability. The engineer who created the Sandman series has voiced that his experience with the mounting system is that it generally will not degrade accuracy. But each barrel is a different animal. Sadly, it appears that my vision of using the L on this particular gun just may be ultimately be achieved. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/29/2019 10:44:08 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USMC_JA: I certainly do not dispute your first hand experiences. And it appears that this barrel doesn't like a big, relatively heavy suppressor being hung on the end of it. The K did not appear to have much effect on it though. I will add, without saying you are wrong, that the Dead Air Key MO QD system is a taper mount that is generally very well regarded for its consistency and reliability. The engineer who created the Sandman series has voiced that his experience with the mounting system is that it generally will not degrade accuracy. But each barrel is a different animal. Sadly, it appears that my vision of using the L on this particular gun just may be ultimately be achieved. 
Did you opt for the medium contour on your JP barrel? Most folks with the LRP do. It would seem to me that a JP medium contoured barrel would be the one to be able to hold onto the added weight of that can but that barrel harmonics stuff is real. Again, not an academic, just a shooter who observes a lot (I think I just found my sig line...HA!) |
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Posted: 1/30/2019 11:34:12 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FALex: Yes sir. After I made my post, I went off and read about the Dead Air Sandman series. Seems like a great can, regardless. They just may not be the tool for precision work, or they just hate your barrel
Did you opt for the medium contour on your JP barrel? Most folks with the LRP do. It would seem to me that a JP medium contoured barrel would be the one to be able to hold onto the added weight of that can but that barrel harmonics stuff is real. Again, not an academic, just a shooter who observes a lot (I think I just found my sig line...HA!) |
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Posted: 1/30/2019 11:50:45 AM EDT
[#46]
From my observations, most all of the marketed precision cans, and those that I use or observe at various competitions, are either DT or use a TOMB system. The QD cans just don’t have the same reputation for precision and reproduceability.
Enjoying seeing your results. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 1/30/2019 12:09:36 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge:
From my observations, most all of the marketed precision cans, and those that I use or observe at various competitions, are either DT or use a TOMB system. The QD cans just don’t have the same reputation for precision and reproduceability. Enjoying seeing your results. 1) I like the JP Rifle, so don't take anything here as a dig. 2) Do you know that 168's will fall apart at about 600? If you aren't planning on shooting past 600, then it doesn't matter one bit. But, if you are shooting further, either 175's (which you've tested) of 155's will do much better. 3) If the gun is shooting 1.25 at best, something isn't right. I know you quoted that for the 175's, but if the rifle isn't shooting 0.5 MOA, something is wrong. There is a lot wrong with Federal as a company, but FGMM is not one of them. FGMM 175's are what I grab when I don't have time to reload. So, I've shot it out of a Barrett MRAD, AI AX, Sako TRG22, Larue PTOBR 16" and Larue OBR 20", and then out of a friend's Ruger RPR. It's always been at worst 0.5 MOA (5-shot groups). There's a chance that the JP just doesn't like that ammo, but I doubt it. 4) The data on the suppressors is inaccurate. My preferred cans are TBAC, but I've seen very similar results (actually improving accuracy) from Silencerco Omega QD and the YHM Ti QD. How a suppressor performs, in my opinion, has more to do with how it affects harmonics, not the manner with which it attaches to the barrel. |
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Posted: 1/30/2019 1:16:59 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MRAD: I didn't read all of the comments, so I apologize if I'm saying something others have said: 1) I like the JP Rifle, so don't take anything here as a dig. 2) Do you know that 168's will fall apart at about 600? If you aren't planning on shooting past 600, then it doesn't matter one bit. But, if you are shooting further, either 175's (which you've tested) of 155's will do much better. 3) If the gun is shooting 1.25 at best, something isn't right. I know you quoted that for the 175's, but if the rifle isn't shooting 0.5 MOA, something is wrong. There is a lot wrong with Federal as a company, but FGMM is not one of them. FGMM 175's are what I grab when I don't have time to reload. So, I've shot it out of a Barrett MRAD, AI AX, Sako TRG22, Larue PTOBR 16" and Larue OBR 20", and then out of a friend's Ruger RPR. It's always been at worst 0.5 MOA (5-shot groups). There's a chance that the JP just doesn't like that ammo, but I doubt it. 4) The data on the suppressors is inaccurate. My preferred cans are TBAC, but I've seen very similar results (actually improving accuracy) from Silencerco Omega QD and the YHM Ti QD. How a suppressor performs, in my opinion, has more to do with how it affects harmonics, not the manner with which it attaches to the barrel. From my experience, the 168 smk tends to go transonic around 800yds with most loads, and it doesn’t transition well. Some bullets do, some don’t. I’ve taken my 223 out beyond 1200yds with repetitive hits on an IPSC plate and the bullet was subsonic at that distance. If running a Berger 168 hopped up, you can get closer to 1000yds before going transonic. What data, or rather opinion, on suppressors was inaccurate? The vast majority of precision cans that I see are DT or use a TOMB system. Historically, the QD cans haven’t been known as a precision can of choice. This may be due to your statement about harmonics. The system itself may allow for more harmonic variation between shots with some systems. Obviously some systems are better than others, but you still see companies like TBAC going with DT or TOMB. |
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Posted: 1/30/2019 1:52:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: USMC_JA]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge:
From my observations, most all of the marketed precision cans, and those that I use or observe at various competitions, are either DT or use a TOMB system. The QD cans just don’t have the same reputation for precision and reproduceability. Enjoying seeing your results. You might well be right vis-a-vis QD cans not being conducive to accuracy. I will say the lead engineer for the Sandman hangs out in the suppressor forum. And he has proven to be pretty honest about how his cans perform. His experience with the Sandman indicates it is not typically detrimental to accuracy/precision. Obviously, ever situation is different and he acknowledges that the Sandman won't always help. So, perhaps this is one of those situations. Perhaps, the really interesting thing will be to see if the K doesn't have any effect while the L does. Same mounting system. |
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Posted: 12/9/2019 3:00:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: USMC_JA]
[#50]
Mini update 3.0 12/9/19
Dragged the JP back out of the back of the safe, dusted it off a bit, and hit the range with it for the first time since early this year. I had gotten distracted with my SPR build. I have failed y'all with pictures this time but I turned in two groups suppressed that looked identical to this one (5 rounds at 100 yards). One was with FGMM and one with Sig 168gr OTM. I have no clue what changed (other than maybe the shooter being more consistent). Perhaps the barrel is starting to settle in a bit? Round count is currently right at 200ish. Either way, this is encouraging. 
As an aside, I really like Sig's match ammo. It consistently shoots very well in both .308 and .223...at least in my guns. ETA: It slipped my mind until I reviewed this thread again, but I HAVE switched out the muzzle device from a FH to a brake. Perhaps I discovered something. |
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