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Posted: 12/10/2019 12:35:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: bigtex84]
I took some picture with my Chinese bore scope and the barrel seems normal to me, but I honestly have no idea what I’m looking that through the bore scope so I have come to the experts.
I have seen a very sharp downward trend in accuracy as of late. If I had to guess the round count I would put it between 2500-3500 rounds, 1500 of those in the last six months. It’s just a factory Remington 700 LTR barrel. This is a picture of the throat with a fired case in the chamber  Attached FileThe next picture is about a ¼” further up, you can’t see much rifling before this.  Attached FileNext is about 4”-5” into the barrel  Attached FileLastly about halfway down  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/10/2019 3:22:34 AM EDT
[#1]
Meh its got some wear, if a good cleaning, including getting the copper out of it doesn't improve the accuracy, yeah it might be time for a barrel, If you hand load you might check how much the lands have moved and push the bullet closer.....my rum barrel looks about the same, its got almost 850 rds thru it, but it is still sub Moa..I expect 1500 plus sub Moa rounds thru it...
 Attached File |
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Posted: 12/10/2019 6:15:54 AM EDT
[#2]
Regardless of what I saw on a borescope (I’m no metallurgist), the sharp decline in accuracy would have me replacing the barrel.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 12/10/2019 6:40:04 AM EDT
[#3]
I'm impressed with your borescope, Do you have a link for it?
I didn't see you mention what cartridge your shooting. The round count is getting up there. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 12/10/2019 7:35:17 AM EDT
[#4]
All that throat "alligatoring" and visible cracking up further is exactly what "shot out" means, and you have the accuracy degradation too. Now if you are really cheap and you have barrel to spare you could have it cut back and rethreaded and chambered, and typically have the crown touched up, but all that work ends up close to the cost of a new barrel.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/10/2019 8:38:33 AM EDT
[#5]
How's your accuracy? Do the bullets keyhole the target? I usually replace a barrel when my target looks like shit.
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Posted: 12/10/2019 12:00:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bigtex84]
[#6]
The rifle is a 308.
The bore scope is the $45 teslong on amazon. There is a thread about it on the first page of this forum. Accuracy went from ¾ MOA to 1.5 MOA |
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Posted: 12/10/2019 8:05:46 PM EDT
[#7]
Well it sounds like a rebarrel is in order. Now the question is do I blueprint the receiver?
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Posted: 12/10/2019 8:17:25 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigtex84:
Well it sounds like a rebarrel is in order. Now the question is do I blueprint the receiver? |
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Posted: 12/10/2019 9:30:51 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider:
I would/did... why wouldn't you, the 700 receiver is still a damn good receiver and if you pick the right smith(I used Bartlein Barrels), you also get great options, chamber reamer used/twist rate/barrel length/contour/fluting/threading/HD lug...and the list goes on..and the price isn't bad..1050 for the barrel and all the machine work for Brian at Bartlein on my 700...only thing not included was shipping.. Chamber reamers are something I haven’t considered. It’s going to be 308 but I’m sure there are about 1000 different ways to cut a 308 chamber. |
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Posted: 12/10/2019 9:51:41 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigtex84:
I’m definitely going with a Bartlein barrel. There is a local gunsmith scorehi.com that seems to be well regarded. Prices seem fair as well. Chamber reamers are something I haven’t considered. It’s going to be 308 but I’m sure there are about 1000 different ways to cut a 308 chamber. |
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Posted: 12/10/2019 11:06:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sinister:
Charlie does awesome work. He re-did a 700 and 40X for me. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 1:13:32 AM EDT
[#12]
I would expect 5000-10000 from a .308, but I guess you got one from a lemon steel batch. I dunno if that cracking will smooth out with TMS bullets. If a cleaning and minor adjustment of charge or length doesn't improve it, definitely done.
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Posted: 12/11/2019 10:27:04 AM EDT
[#13]
2500-3500 rounds is just getting started for a .308. Cheap bore scopes are going to be a gunsmiths best friend. LOL Don't worry about looks but how it shoots. Run some TMS rounds through it if you want to smooth it as they do work. Follow the direction and put a couple through every 300 rounds or so and it will keep it smooth but again worry about performance on target and not what the barrel looks like inside.
But if getting it done Charlie does do very good work. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 1:59:29 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01:
2500-3500 rounds is just getting started for a .308. Cheap bore scopes are going to be a gunsmiths best friend. LOL Don't worry about looks but how it shoots. Run some TMS rounds through it if you want to smooth it as they do work. Follow the direction and put a couple through every 300 rounds or so and it will keep it smooth but again worry about performance on target and not what the barrel looks like inside. But if getting it done Charlie does do very good work. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 5:15:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigtex84: That’s just it, my groups doubled in size in a very short period of time. Then I bought the borescope just to see. Like I said in the OP it really doesn’t look too bad to me. I’ll check out the TMS rounds and see if I get an improvement. The TMS might help. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 5:48:18 PM EDT
[#16]
I agree 308 should normally last up to 10k rounds and your rifling at 4”-5” into the barrel looks strong. Have you checked the torque on all screws to verify nothing has loosened up? That's too big of a degradation in accuracy for a barrel to just up and be shot out in a short time frame. IMHO, I have the same borescope and its great. But yeah it'll make things look worse than they are.
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Posted: 12/11/2019 5:54:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: FALARAK]
[#17]
Interesting. My Remington factory barrel was never very impressive (.75MOA on a good day) but it was consistent after 5000 rounds, when I just replaced it and rebuilt the rifle as a 6.5 creedmoor.
It copper fouled terribly. The new Bartlein barrel is a joy to clean by comparison. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 6:01:37 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigtex84:
Well it sounds like a rebarrel is in order. Now the question is do I blueprint the receiver? Before you get it re barreled, look into having a smith pull the barrel, shave an inch off of the chamber end, re-thread the shank, and then re cut the chamber. Not sure what it would cost compared to a new barrel but back in the day that was what we did in your situation. The pics from further up the barrel don't look too terribly bad, and you may still have some life left in that tube. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 6:22:39 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01: They still large after a good cleaning and refouling? The TMS might help. I doubt it makes much of a difference but the last 1500 rounds were all 190gr SMK loaded at or slightly over published max. The throat is super long if I load them at 2.800 the jump is around 0.200 to the lands. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 6:31:51 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigtex84: Yeah groups remain around the 1.5” mark after cleaning then 20 fouling shots. I doubt it makes much of a difference but the last 1500 rounds were all 190gr SMK loaded at or slightly over published max. The throat is super long if I load them at 2.800 the jump is around 0.200 to the lands. I would try the TMS or even the Final Finish if it's shooting that bad. Use only the three finest grits with the Finial Finish if you go that route. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 6:32:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigtex84: Yeah groups remain around the 1.5” mark after cleaning then 20 fouling shots. I doubt it makes much of a difference but the last 1500 rounds were all 190gr SMK loaded at or slightly over published max. The throat is super long if I load them at 2.800 the jump is around 0.200 to the lands. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 6:37:34 PM EDT
[#22]
Even with rapid strings 2500-3500 rounds is still very short barrel life. My match .308s that were shot hard and fast all made at least 6000 rounds. Could just be a bad barrel as it is a factory Rem barrel.
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Posted: 12/11/2019 8:49:06 PM EDT
[#23]
I typically shoot 0.10-0.20 off the lands so I single feed.
I would say it’s seen some long strings of fire and the barrel has gotten pretty toasty. I could be off on the round count as I’m it’s second owner. If you only had the bore scope pictures and no other information what would you put the round count at? Since Christmas is coming up and my wife has no idea what to get me a trip to the gunsmith for a new barrel is probably going to happen. |
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WV, USA
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Posted: 12/12/2019 8:40:08 AM EDT
[#24]
I wouldn’t put too much weight into those borescore pictures. I’ve had barrel look far worse than that still shoot. However if you’ve lost that much accuracy, it’s time to rebarrel. You will end up wasting more time and ammo than it’s worth trying to preserve a factory barrel.
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OH, USA
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Posted: 12/12/2019 9:29:22 AM EDT
[#25]
Those are some great pictures, can you share what brand, model borescope you are using.
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Posted: 12/12/2019 10:00:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: bigtex84]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bmarshall1:
Those are some great pictures, can you share what brand, model borescope you are using.  
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Posted: 12/12/2019 10:34:35 AM EDT
[#27]
I wouldn't cut a factory Remington barrel and set it back. I don't think your going to go wrong with a Bartlin barrel. The main thing is to have your bullet load picked then have your lands set for the decided jump. I think you've got uneven wear causing your bullet to be off center when it contacts the lands. You could hand lap the lands with JB bore paste and a drill but that's a crap shoot.
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Posted: 12/12/2019 5:12:09 PM EDT
[#28]
Yeah don't set back a Remington barrel. Not worth it. Try the Final Finish or just grab a Bartlein and rebarrel.
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Posted: 12/12/2019 9:40:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bigtex84]
[#29]
Thank you everyone for all the great advice. I have never had a custom barrel made so I am not sure what choices I will have to make. It’s just truly a bench gun so I’m thinking 24” barrel MTU profile. No idea on the different types of 308 chambers and how long the throat should be.
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Posted: 12/12/2019 9:51:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AKSnowRider]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigtex84:
Thank you everyone for all the great advice. I have never had a custom barrel made so I am not sure what choices I will have to make. It’s just truly a bench gun so I’m thinking 24” barrel MTU profile. No idea on the different types of 308 chambers and how long the throat should be. |
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Posted: 12/12/2019 10:00:25 PM EDT
[#31]
24" is a good length. I would say 24-26" for good velocity in the .308.
I would say think about the contour again. It's a good deal heavier than what you have with the factory. If you wanted a heavier I would say go M24/40 contour. Heavy but not overly. I run a 24" med Palma on my .308 match gun now. Have run from factory Remington varmint up to MTU. |
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Posted: 12/12/2019 10:24:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bigtex84]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider:
Call Bartlein and ask them..they will want to know what you plan on using it for, what you want to chamber for and what profile/length /chamber would be best for it... pretty simple, they are extremely knowledgable and even if you don't use them, they are happy to help you get an idea what you need.. You need to know what cartridge you want, since if you barrel you can change to anything that will fit the bolt face and the action length.... what bullet/s you want to concentrate on loading for game/distance/targets..., what your main use of the rifle is..light packer, heavy bench, or all out long range banger......they can help figure out chamber, contour, length, and twist rate to meet your needs..the cool part..you are getting the best shit made versus mass produced good enough shooters.... I’m probably not going to stick to one load in particular. I love reloading as much as shooting and the experimentation that comes with it. But it’s going to be a 100% bench gun so weight is irrelevant. I will probably shoot out to 750yds once a month but mainly inside of 300yds twice a week. I have been averaging 100-200/wk so I’m glad to hear a new barrel should last 6000rds. |
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Posted: 12/13/2019 6:30:36 PM EDT
[#33]
Just make sure the barrel will fit your stock
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Posted: 12/13/2019 8:15:03 PM EDT
[#34]
Originally Posted By JNic:
Just make sure the barrel will fit your stock |
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Posted: 12/13/2019 8:46:42 PM EDT
[#35]
It will definitely need to be opened up, it’s a Grayboe Ridgeback.
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Posted: 12/16/2019 12:03:09 PM EDT
[#36]
Barrels are cheap. Time, range time, loading time, cleaning time...that's expensive as it is finite.
When in doubt...just rebarrel. |
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