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Posted: 5/21/2020 1:09:16 PM EDT
I'm wanting to get some different types of ammo to test my Savage MK2 for accuracy.
I know 22lr can be finicky when changing ammo. If I run a patch/bore snake through between ammo, how many rounds is generally used to determine if the gun likes that ammo? Would a 50rd box of each suffice with 10-15 "sacrificial" rounds before measuring? |
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Liberate Hong Kong
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[#1]
10 rounds
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I would just as soon make you cry as make you laugh, both are equally entertaining to me----me!
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[#2]
There's an online chart comparison contrast the accuracy of ammo in a Savage Mark II.
My Savage Mark II always performs best with CCI, either standard velocity, or I actually use velocitors at 100 yards and it usually prints under Moa easily. I pillar bedded my Mark II use instructions I found right here on ar15.com. and other than the crappy magazines, it's been a winner. |
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[#3]
Originally Posted By craig24680: I'm wanting to get some different types of ammo to test my Savage MK2 for accuracy. I know 22lr can be finicky when changing ammo. If I run a patch/bore snake through between ammo, how many rounds is generally used to determine if the gun likes that ammo? Would a 50rd box of each suffice with 10-15 "sacrificial" rounds before measuring? View Quote A 50 round box should be plenty. I also use a bore snake between types and then fire about 10 to relube the barrel. Some say 1 round per inch of barrel for relube but I have found 10 to be plenty for my 18". With a 50 round box you got 10 to relube and then 40 to test at 50, 100 etc. One thing to remember though is that even the same ammo can vary between lot to lot so there are places you can buy a small amount to test then call back and order more of the same lot. Champions Choice does it. |
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[#4]
Thanks for the replys. I'll get 5-6 boxes of different ammo to test.
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Liberate Hong Kong
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[Last Edit: Kid_Sampson]
[#5]
2-3 Boxes of each.
I went thru this a couple of months ago with my 457 Varmint. Bought a couple of boxes each of Eley Subs, Lapua Center-X, RWS Target Rifle, RWS Special Match, SK Pistol, SK Rifle, SK Magazine, CCI Select, CCI Standard and Federal Match. Would site in each load with a 5-round group, then I would shoot 10 shot groups at 25 and 50 meters and record the groups sizes. In the end SK magazine shot the best for the price, and Lapua Center-X shot the best overall. |
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[#6]
From what I have seen cleaning bore between brand stuff or type stuff of ammo is counter productive. About 15-20 rounds sacrifice to settle the bore with a given type of lubricant on the bullet then shoot some groups.
Keep in mind if you find that “magic bullet” that shooters exceptionally well in your rifle you need to get more of the EXACT same lot to guarantee future accuracy. The precision 22 shooters will tell you ammo varies greatly by lot even in the high end stuff, and lack of availability of your “magic bullet” lot number starts the whole process again. If you find lot 123A of xyz ammo shot best in your testing buy a couple cases (10 thousand rounds) of that lot to assure future performance |
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[#7]
Allow me to rephrase your question.
"How many rounds do I need to be 95% confident this ammo shoots groups that are 1/2 MOA or less in my rifle." Of course, you get to chose how confident you want to be (the 95%) and also get to chose the accuracy criteria (the 1/2 MOA). If that is what you are after, we can provide the number of rounds. |
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[#8]
Originally Posted By Trollslayer: Allow me to rephrase your question. "How many rounds do I need to be 95% confident this ammo shoots groups that are 1/2 MOA or less in my rifle." Of course, you get to chose how confident you want to be (the 95%) and also get to chose the accuracy criteria (the 1/2 MOA). If that is what you are after, we can provide the number of rounds. View Quote At what distance? Lot testing rimfire ammo is the only real way. I clean after a brand then shoot 5-10 rds of the new ammo before scoring the next lot or brand. Shooting a stock Savage your not going to take advantage of the expensive ammo. The chamber is to long. You will “most likely” see good results with CCi SV. If you want 1/2 Moa 95% of the time I wish you the best of luck. |
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“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying all the wrong remedies.” G. Marx
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[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#9]
At whatever distance you want.
The distance does not affect the design of the experiment. Of course, it will influence the outcome of the test - the statistics you measure. As always, it is best to test at whatever distance you plan to shoot. Also, shooting the rounds does not guarantee a particular outcome (level of accuracy), it only gives a level of confidence that what was measured will be replicated every time you shoot that ammo. You see, shooting 10 rounds of this or that provides very little insight into the long-term accuracy level and repeatability of the ammo-rifle-shooter system. |
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[#10]
Originally Posted By Trollslayer: At whatever distance you want. The distance does not affect the design of the experiment. Of course, it will influence the outcome of the test - the statistics you measure. As always, it is best to test at whatever distance you plan to shoot. Also, shooting the rounds does not guarantee a particular outcome (level of accuracy), it only gives a level of confidence that what was measured will be replicated every time you shoot that ammo. You see, shooting 10 rounds of this or that provides very little insight into the long-term accuracy level and repeatability of the ammo-rifle-shooter system. View Quote So no one will ever be able to shoot accurately. All they can do is keep laying down and testing ammo for years and years and years to get data that will not guarantee anything. LOL |
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[#11]
Thanks for the info.
Not sure I'll be able to tell difference between lots as I'm not that great a shot and it's a savage. Just looking mainly for most affordable good accuracy. Going to order 7 types and see how they perform in a couple weeks. I'll post reports. Thanks all |
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Liberate Hong Kong
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[#12]
A thing to consider, is the long term availability of the one you will want to go with.
If there is no confidence you will have access to the stuff on demand, you will want to buy in quantity to avoid dry spells. We get long dry spells with rimfire ammo, and Murphy's Law says the one you like will be the one you can't get. Wolf branded rimfire was available in two grades and about the time everyone decided to make it popular, it became a unicorn. |
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[#13]
Originally Posted By Rob01: So no one will ever be able to shoot accurately. All they can do is keep laying down and testing ammo for years and years and years to get data that will not guarantee anything. LOL View Quote Is that really all you got out of that? Who said "years and years"? Not me. I will say this, there are no guarantees. I have to admit, the shooting part of your post that sounds like fun. |
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[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#14]
Originally Posted By RegionRat: A thing to consider, is the long term availability of the one you will want to go with. If there is no confidence you will have access to the stuff on demand, you will want to buy in quantity to avoid dry spells. We get long dry spells with rimfire ammo, and Murphy's Law says the one you like will be the one you can't get. Wolf branded rimfire was available in two grades and about the time everyone decided to make it popular, it became a unicorn. View Quote Top quality rimfire ammo was available throughout even the deepest depths of that last, long and deep, neck-beard induced, FBHO draught. Having said that, I buy rimfire by the case. |
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[#15]
I couldn't find my calculator, so I ran an online calculator, instead. This isn't what I would do but it gives you an idea of the sample size required. Hint,... it isn't 10 rounds.
If you want to be 95% confident that the case of ammo you bought is good for 1 MOA (+/- 0.1 MOA), you need to test 95 rounds. This isn't exactly what a shooter wants but I'm too tired to do any more tonight. |
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[#16]
When all is said and done, my bet is that subsonic Eley Tenex, Eley Match (black box) or Lapua Center X will be the winner. Those usually shoot very well in any match grade barrel. Every barrel is different and will have its preferences.
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[#17]
Originally Posted By mc556: At what distance? View Quote I phrased it in units of MOA so distance has to be known but it is not part of the criteria. If 95% is too high for you, use whatever you like. If 1/2 MOA is too low, use whatever you like. CCI SV never shot particularly well in my rifles. It shot no better than Winchester Target (also SV ammo). The Winchester was a LOT less expensive., |
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[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#18]
Originally Posted By MS556: When all is said and done, my bet is that subsonic Eley Tenex, Eley Match (black box) or Lapua Center X will be the winner. Those usually shoot very well in any match grade barrel. Every barrel is different and will have its preferences. View Quote Yes, very likely so. The thing is, those are the most expensive ammo in the world. What I try to do is strike a balance between cost and accuracy. The ammo I shoot is as accurate as I am (or better). It does not throw any fliers in my rifles. I never walk away saying, "My ammo let me down". It costs $14/ 100 rounds, less than half the price of the ammo you mention. Lapua X-Act costs $53.00 for 100 rounds, Tenex is $37/100, Eley Match is $29/100 and RWS R-50 is $32/100. When I shoot the uber-premium ammo, I walk away saying, "I didn't see any difference between the expensive ammo and my regular fodder". I am the limiting factor. Maybe, if I get much better than I am now, maybe then, I will see a benefit. For now, no. I don't know if the above makes sense to you but it surely does to me. |
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[#19]
Originally Posted By Trollslayer: Yes, very likely so. The thing is, those are the most expensive ammo in the world. What I try to do is strike a balance between cost and accuracy. The ammo I shoot is as accurate as I am (or better). It does not throw any fliers in my rifles. I never walk away saying, "My ammo let me down". It costs $14/ 100 rounds, less than half the price of the ammo you mention. Lapua Center-X costs $53.00 for 100 rounds, Tenex is $37/100, Eley Match is $29/100 and RWS R-50 is $32/100. When I shoot the uber-premium ammo, I walk away saying, "I didn't see any difference between the expensive ammo and my regular fodder". I am the limiting factor. Maybe, if I get much better than I am now, maybe then, I will see a benefit. For now, no. I don't know if the above makes sense to you but it surely does to me. View Quote You are getting ripped off if you are paying $53 for 100 rounds of Center X. Should be about $22. Center X $11/50 |
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[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#20]
Originally Posted By Rob01: You are getting ripped off if you are paying $53 for 100 rounds of Center X. Should be about $22. Center X $11/50 View Quote You are correct. Thanks for finding that. I was thinking Center-X but quoting the price for X-Act. I was actually using Champion's Choice as my reference for those prices. As a supplier, they always have what I want at a decent price. |
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