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MI, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2019 9:23:58 AM EDT
Hello all. I have an 18 inch 1:7 twist AR 15 chambered in 223 Rem. I am curious what is the highest ballistic coefficient bullet currently offered for .224 to load to magazine length?
I understand that the highest weight / highest BC bullets available in .224 are really only for bolt actions, like the 90 grainers. Some ogives are designed better to work with a 223 case when loaded in an AR 15 magazine. Are the Sierra MatchKing 77 grain bullets the best option? Or do the Hornady ELD Match 80 grain bullets work good when loaded at magazine length? Any other options? Thank you! |
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Posted: 3/11/2019 10:09:51 AM EDT
[#1]
You can’t load the 75+gr ELD’s without using a modified magazine.
Not sure of the highest BC. Probably something like the 77 TMK, but I’ve had good luck with the 73 eld-m’s. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2019 12:55:59 PM EDT
[#2]
Awesome. Thanks for the suggestion!
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USA
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Posted: 3/11/2019 1:16:25 PM EDT
[#3]
77 TMK
Arguably more accurate with corresponding reduction in BC, but still awesome: 77 SMK |
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Posted: 3/11/2019 2:04:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HighpowerRifleBrony]
[#4]
By BC, it's probably
75gr BTHP 77gr SMK 85gr MB 73gr ELD 77gr TMK 80.5/82gr Berger |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2019 2:19:52 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
By BC, it's probably 75gr BTHP 77gr SMK 85gr MB 73gr ELD 77gr TMK 80.5/82gr Berger Can all those be effectively loaded to magazine length? (The 85MB?) The Bergers can? |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2019 5:09:44 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TGH456E: OP wanted magazine fed length...…. Can all those be effectively loaded to magazine length? (The 85MB?) The Bergers can? |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2019 10:54:38 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
By BC, it's probably 75gr BTHP 77gr SMK 85gr MB 73gr ELD 77gr TMK 80.5/82gr Berger Right now it looks like the 77gr TMK might be what I try next. People for sure say they load these to mag length. Thanks. |
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Posted: 3/12/2019 7:09:13 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By engineer40:
I was going to ask the same thing. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By engineer40:
Originally Posted By TGH456E:
OP wanted magazine fed length.... Can all those be effectively loaded to magazine length? (The 85MB?) The Bergers can? The 80.5/82gr Berger ogive is close to being below the mouth like the 77gr TMK. The 73gr ELD is long for it's weight, so same. With more bullet occupying the case volume, a drop tube or denser powder might be preferred for ease of seating. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/12/2019 10:55:09 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
The 85gr MB is like a .308" 190gr SMK - a blunt, precise lump that accomplishes BC primarily by mAss. Molon did a review of the Barnes factory load. The 80.5/82gr Berger ogive is close to being below the mouth like the 77gr TMK. The 73gr ELD is long for it's weight, so same. With more bullet occupying the case volume, a drop tube or denser powder might be preferred for ease of seating. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
Originally Posted By engineer40:
Originally Posted By TGH456E:
OP wanted magazine fed length.... Can all those be effectively loaded to magazine length? (The 85MB?) The Bergers can? The 80.5/82gr Berger ogive is close to being below the mouth like the 77gr TMK. The 73gr ELD is long for it's weight, so same. With more bullet occupying the case volume, a drop tube or denser powder might be preferred for ease of seating. And the 85's as well? Or not? |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 2:07:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: borderpatrol]
[#10]
The highest b.c. bullets are going to be the slowest. Inside 300 yards they don't give an advantage. A 68/69 going 2800 fps (20" barrel) is great option out to 300.
Hornady's 75 grain hpbt match has a b.c. of .395 which is excellent and can be pushed to 2650 fps from a 20". I think their new ELD 73 grain is in the low .420's, but don't know if it can be loaded in a magazine. I know the 75 A-MAX can not. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/13/2019 10:02:42 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol:
The highest b.c. bullets are going to be the slowest. Inside 300 yards they don't give an advantage. A 68/69 going 2800 fps (20" barrel) is great option out to 300. Hornady's 75 grain hpbt match has a b.c. of .395 which is excellent and can be pushed to 2650 fps from a 20". I think their new ELD 73 grain is in the low .420's, but don't know if it can be loaded in a magazine. I know the 75 A-MAX can not. |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 10:40:46 AM EDT
[#12]
I have used the 77 TMK out to 820 very effectively. Great bullet.
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Posted: 3/13/2019 3:35:28 PM EDT
[#13]
I won’t try to guess at some experimental loadings I have witnessed for magazine feed.
I have seen various designs that are above the SMK 77 get loaded to magazine length by some legitimate service rifle competitors, but it seems to fade away after a trial or two. The Across the Course matches for Service Rifle include a slow prone 600 yard string. This is the place where many folks looked for a ballistic advantage to help buck wind. The point here, is that the stage is 2 sighters and 20 rounds for record, but you can load an SMK 80 longer than mag length and single feed it. There are many very good high BC bullets that have been used in addition to the Sierra 80, but they are seated too far out for your magazine request. Nosler and Hornady offer competative versions for both the slow fire and rapid stages. The commonality of the SMK77 and TMK77 seems to be the best advice for a starting point. They are both very practical choices since they are offered in good quality match ammo loadings from outfits like Black Hills. This would make it a very easy proposition to grab a 50 round box of each to run your tests without having to reload. If you like their potential, then you can run your development knowing your hand loads have a performance baseline that you should be able to beat. |
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Posted: 3/14/2019 2:13:07 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TGH456E:
Ok..... so the Bergers can be seated to mag length? And the 85's as well? Or not? |
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Posted: 3/16/2019 10:55:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol:
The highest b.c. bullets are going to be the slowest. Inside 300 yards they don't give an advantage. A 68/69 going 2800 fps (20" barrel) is great option out to 300. Hornady's 75 grain hpbt match has a b.c. of .395 which is excellent and can be pushed to 2650 fps from a 20". I think their new ELD 73 grain is in the low .420's, but don't know if it can be loaded in a magazine. I know the 75 A-MAX can not. Gotta be wary of the advertising. |
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Posted: 3/17/2019 8:44:16 PM EDT
[#16]
I don't think the g1 BC holds up on the 77TMK either, but it is better than the SMK and can do good work out to 600 if the wind is feeling kind. if the 80.5 fullbore will load to mag length, go for it. Get you some stainless steel mags that allow 2.31 and you might pull it off.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/23/2019 11:13:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TGH456E]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By billyhill:
I don't think the g1 BC holds up on the 77TMK either, but it is better than the SMK and can do good work out to 600 if the wind is feeling kind. if the 80.5 fullbore will load to mag length, go for it. Get you some stainless steel mags that allow 2.31 and you might pull it off. I've shot the 77SMK, TMK and 80SMK alot out to 600yds and they work great! Even in the wind. So for sure, I'd go 600+ easy with the TMK and 80's...…. depending on your conditions. |
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Posted: 4/12/2019 11:28:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Laupua 77 have the highest (non-inflated) BC I can recall seeing.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/23/2019 3:43:24 PM EDT
[#19]
I’m loading 77TMK to 2.24 because 2.25 didn’t feed consistently.
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Posted: 5/29/2019 1:11:31 PM EDT
[#20]
I've had good results with the 73gr ELDM from my 20" Compass Lake barrel. I have had them out to 1,000yd several times and lots at 500, 600 and 850.
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Posted: 5/29/2019 4:59:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By poortrader:
I'm loading 77TMK to 2.24 because 2.25 didn't feed consistently. |
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Posted: 5/30/2019 9:17:12 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
Not the bullet's fault. Something needs to be fixed or replaced. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
Originally Posted By poortrader:
I'm loading 77TMK to 2.24 because 2.25 didn't feed consistently. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/30/2019 9:54:38 AM EDT
[#23]
BC isn’t everything. If you load anything longer than a 77 SMK/TMK to mag length the reduction in case capacity results in needing a lower powder charge and the reduced velocity cancels out any benefit gained by the higher BC. A fast 77SMK has better ballistics than a slow Berger 80.
The best mag-length performer is the 77SMK/TMK. |
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Posted: 5/30/2019 6:45:28 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By airsix:
BC isn't everything. If you load anything longer than a 77 SMK/TMK to mag length the reduction in case capacity results in needing a lower powder charge and the reduced velocity cancels out any benefit gained by the higher BC. A fast 77SMK has better ballistics than a slow Berger 80. The best mag-length performer is the 77SMK/TMK. |
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Posted: 5/30/2019 8:56:59 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
77gr SMK at 2650fps vs 80gr BFB at 2500fps - at 600yds with 10mph full value, JBM is calculating 0.5 MOA flatter for the SMK, but 1 MOA drift advantage to the BFB. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/31/2019 1:28:31 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
77gr SMK at 2650fps vs 80gr BFB at 2500fps - at 600yds with 10mph full value, JBM is calculating 0.5 MOA flatter for the SMK, but 1 MOA drift advantage to the BFB. |
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Posted: 6/1/2019 4:04:38 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By airsix:
But can you seriously get 2500fps out of a mag-length loaded 80gr BFB? I doubt you could at safe pressures. |
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Posted: 6/6/2019 5:36:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: billyhill]
[#28]
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Posted: 6/10/2019 10:02:11 AM EDT
[#29]
Go with Lapua Scenar / Scenar L 77gr. Lapua claims .386 / .193 (G1/G7, respectively), but some ballistic calculator have it at a higher BC based on real-life testing.
I was using the Scenar (Scenar L hadn't been released at the time) in the last couple years I was shooting High Power Service Rifle. In terms of meplat and base to tip length consistency, the QC was better than all the other 75/77gr BTHP at the time (Berger, Hornady, Nosler, Sierra). I was using primarily Nosler since I got so much of it on the cheap in the early 2000's. But when Lapua came out with the 77gr Scenar, I was quite impressed and switched to that for matches. I didn't even bother working up a load. I just swapped bullets and kept my 200/300 recipe of 24.0gr RL15 and it was shooting great. |
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