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Posted: 3/20/2021 11:05:19 PM EDT
Purchased a Larue Ultimate Upper configured with a 20” 5.56 Stealth barrel. This will be my first scoped rifle. I’m looking to spend around $700 but can go up to 1K on some glass. I always talk myself into spending more than I want to. If someone that knows scopes and is tracking sales can help me out that would be appreciated. I will also keep an eye out for sales if I can get a few recommendations. I will lurk around here and read. Let me know what other literature can help get me started. To this point most of my experience is with iron sights and red dots.
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"Individual liberty and freedom are not outmoded concepts," San Diego-based U.S. District Judge Roger Benitez
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[Last Edit: Anastasios]
[#1]
Just bought my first 'nice' scope, and mounted it on a DMR inspired rifle build. It's the Vortex Viper PST Gen ll 2-10x32 MRAD. Cost about $760 during a one day internet sale for Cabela's club members. You can find them for $849 every day from multiple outlets. I think MSRP is 1100.
I spent months researching scopes, and this has pretty much everything I want a scope for this style rifle, and nothing I dont. Mounted it earlier this week and spent this evening bore sighting it on a stop sign down the street. Then I ranged the sign. Do you know stop signs are 7.9 mils (.79 meters) measured across the flats? Using the reticle to range the sign put it at a distance of 202.5 meters from my location. This is already fun and I haven't even shot it yet. |
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"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth- and the amusing thing about it is that they are." ~ Father Kevin Keaney, 1stMarDiv Chaplain
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[Last Edit: GreenMushroom]
[#2]
First you need to decide if you're wanting a low power capable of fast close range shooting or if you're going to do long range off a bench or bipod. In your price range I'd look at Japanese scopes made by Low. They make the vortex razors, trijicon credo etc. There also seem to be some nice scopes coming from the Philippines like the vortex viper pst2s. Keep an eye out on europtic for sales. I got a vortex lht 3-15-50 for 800 and its an awesome scope for the money.
If you're looking more long range consider one of these. Seems like it would be a great starter scope. Thinking of picking one up. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020586712 Eta Midway links are wonky. Bushnell dmr2. The illuminated version is 800$ right now. |
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[#3]
What will the rifle be used for mostly?
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[#4]
For a 223 rifle I like a 2-10 or a 3-15. Look at reticles you like. I personally like locking turrets and a zero stop, now you do want a scope to track accurately.
LOW has made so really good scopes for quite a few companies so spend time doing your research. |
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[#5]
You have to make a list of reasonable and practical applications for the rifle you're putting the scope on. For example, 5.56 is limited by distance and is not in any way shape or form a long distance round. 800 meters is quite a stretch, 600 being much more reasonable.
Is weight a concern? It is for me as I spend hours carrying the rifle. for instance, The 2-10 PST gen2 is 26oz compared to the DMR2 34oz. Some reticle designs are too messy for me, or have only the very center of the crosshair or dot illuminated, or a crosshair that is too thick for my liking. The PST reticle is simple yet effective with just the right amount of crosshair illuminated to use in cqb as a big aiming reference when on low power. How much power? Low end, I find 2.5x my max for shooting comfortably with both eyes open. I haven't shot 10x at 600yds+ yet, but I think it will be enough. How close will the parallax adjust? 20yds on the PST2. That REALLY helps in cqb dry fire drills. I compared all the scopes in the class, and was ready to spend 1500. I found a Nightforce NX8 1-8x at a lgs for about that price and spent a little time looking through it. The parallax is non adjustable and set at 125meters. The eye box is horrible. There is image distortion. You don't always get what you pay for. The bottom line is figure out price range, then what you need, then what you like. If nothing fits in that price, go up if you can afford it, and start comparing. |
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"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth- and the amusing thing about it is that they are." ~ Father Kevin Keaney, 1stMarDiv Chaplain
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[Last Edit: JUDGED12carried6]
[#6]
Originally Posted By DonofKalifornia: For a 223 rifle I like a 2-10 or a 3-15. Look at reticles you like. I personally like locking turrets and a zero stop, now you do want a scope to track accurately. LOW has made so really good scopes for quite a few companies so spend time doing your research. View Quote I think this is the camp I’m in. I have Acogs and red dots. Want something for precision out to 600~. Ive been slow reporting back to my own thread. Works got me tired. Thanks for everyone’s input so far. So many reticle options ? Not sure what adjustment type is better than the other moa/mil ? Turret types ? Off to read some more. |
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"Individual liberty and freedom are not outmoded concepts," San Diego-based U.S. District Judge Roger Benitez
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[#7]
https://www.eurooptic.com/RZR-1558-Razor-HD-LH-2-10x40-Riflescope-with-HSR-4---RZR-155.aspx
https://www.eurooptic.com/RZR-6638-Razor-HD-LH-15-8x32-Riflescope-with-G4-BDC-RZR-6638.aspx These are examples of what I'm talking about. Quality Japanese glass at great prices. I have the 3-15 2nd gen and its very nice. Got mine when they were 800 but the price gone up. |
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[Last Edit: Anastasios]
[#8]
Originally Posted By JUDGED12carried6: I think this is the camp I’m in. I have Acogs and red dots. Want something for precision out to 600~. Ive been slow reporting back to my own thread. Works got me tired. Thanks for everyone’s input so far. So many reticle options ? Not sure what adjustment type is better than the other moa/mil ? Turret types ? Off to read some more. View Quote MRAD everything. You won't be sorry if you take a little time to learn it. ETA and FFP |
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"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth- and the amusing thing about it is that they are." ~ Father Kevin Keaney, 1stMarDiv Chaplain
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[#9]
Originally Posted By JUDGED12carried6: I think this is the camp I’m in. I have Acogs and red dots. Want something for precision out to 600~. Ive been slow reporting back to my own thread. Works got me tired. Thanks for everyone’s input so far. So many reticle options ? Not sure what adjustment type is better than the other moa/mil ? Turret types ? Off to read some more. View Quote For reticle, a Christmas tree style is very good for holds or dialing. The two I will link below have them and are in your price range. Mil vs moa is a wasted argument as both work and both are angular so not linked to any linear system. If you hear anyone say I uses moa because I like inches then you know that is a person who you need to take their opinion with a grain of salt. If you have buddies that use either and you shoot with them then get what they use. If you are used to one or the other then go with that. No wrong answer. All you do is run your ballistic program in moa or mils and dial or hold the data. Neither is easier than the other or more accurate. Easily hand adjustable turrets are nice for a lot of dialing. A zero stop is nice. Both below have zero stops. As to power range, the 3-15x will work but if you want to see the target better then obviously the 5-25 will give more power. You can dial it down if you don’t need 25x. I would say definitely get a FFP scope so you can use the reticle on any power for holds. https://www.eurooptic.com/Vortex-Viper-PST-5-25x50-EBR-2C-MRAD-PST-5258.aspx https://www.eurooptic.com/Vortex-Viper-PST-3-15x44-EBR-2D-MRAD-FFP-PST-3157.aspx |
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[#10]
Originally Posted By GreenMushroom: First you need to decide if you're wanting a low power capable of fast close range shooting or if you're going to do long range off a bench or bipod. In your price range I'd look at Japanese scopes made by Low. They make the vortex razors, trijicon credo etc. There also seem to be some nice scopes coming from the Philippines like the vortex viper pst2s. Keep an eye out on europtic for sales. I got a vortex lht 3-15-50 for 800 and its an awesome scope for the money. If you're looking more long range consider one of these. Seems like it would be a great starter scope. Thinking of picking one up. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020586712 Eta Midway links are wonky. Bushnell dmr2. The illuminated version is 800$ right now. View Quote |
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[#11]
Originally Posted By Rob01: For reticle, a Christmas tree style is very good for holds or dialing. The two I will link below have them and are in your price range. Mil vs moa is a wasted argument as both work and both are angular so not linked to any linear system. If you hear anyone say I uses moa because I like inches then you know that is a person who you need to take their opinion with a grain of salt. If you have buddies that use either and you shoot with them then get what they use. If you are used to one or the other then go with that. No wrong answer. All you do is run your ballistic program in moa or mils and dial or hold the data. Neither is easier than the other or more accurate. Easily hand adjustable turrets are nice for a lot of dialing. A zero stop is nice. Both below have zero stops. As to power range, the 3-15x will work but if you want to see the target better then obviously the 5-25 will give more power. You can dial it down if you don’t need 25x. I would say definitely get a FFP scope so you can use the reticle on any power for holds. https://www.eurooptic.com/Vortex-Viper-PST-5-25x50-EBR-2C-MRAD-PST-5258.aspx https://www.eurooptic.com/Vortex-Viper-PST-3-15x44-EBR-2D-MRAD-FFP-PST-3157.aspx View Quote That 3-15 looks really nice and if the specs on europtic are correct has a huge field of view. Can anyone comment on the eyebox and glass? I have an accupoint 1-6, bushy 1-6.5 smrs, and razor lht 3-15-50. Is it in that ballpark? |
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[#12]
Originally Posted By GreenMushroom: That 3-15 looks really nice and if the specs on europtic are correct has a huge field of view. Can anyone comment on the eyebox and glass? I have an accupoint 1-6, bushy 1-6.5 smrs, and razor lht 3-15-50. Is it in that ballpark? View Quote Don't have any of those scopes but I do have the PST Gen II 3-15x and it does have a good FOV. The eye box is good to get behind and the glass is good in that price range. It definitely won't hold you back from hitting targets to 1000. It's a real nice scope for it's price range and in the sale price above it's a great deal. |
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[#13]
Pst and bobro mount on the way. This is all your fault op
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[Last Edit: JUDGED12carried6]
[#14]
So I have been digging around and came back with a few questions.
I think I want a ffp reticle as I’m understanding that this is best for taking accurate shots at various distances. I read a drawback is a very small and illegible reticle at less magnification. Is this true for say a Vortex Viper PST Gen II 3-15x44? I’m looking (so far) at these below. One was recommended above and the other I found seems to have better glass (you tell me). This new upper (again 20” Larue UU in 5.56) will be shooting factory loads of imi 77gr. As that’s what I stacked deep. Reloading won’t happen till prices and availability come back. While I’m realistically just shooting paper and watermelon I don’t care for the max scope range to be more than what is effective to take out small game. Attached File |
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"Individual liberty and freedom are not outmoded concepts," San Diego-based U.S. District Judge Roger Benitez
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[#15]
Vortex doesn't list the PST-3157 on their website.
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"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth- and the amusing thing about it is that they are." ~ Father Kevin Keaney, 1stMarDiv Chaplain
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[#16]
I just got the 600$ one form europtic. Initial impressions are very good. Very nice eye box and fov. Its quite easy to get behind even on 15 holding in my hands. Reticle becomes useable at 8x in a pinch and 10x for sure. Turrets seem nice but thats not really my thing.
As far as glass compared to my razor lht I'd give a slight edge to the razor but the pst is very good. On 15x the eyebox on the pst is noticeably better. Oddly the pst seems to have 2 or 3x more magnification than the lht. Size and weight wise it's a beast compared the the lht. If it ever ceases to function it can be used as a blunt instrument. |
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[#17]
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[#18]
Originally Posted By JUDGED12carried6: So I have been digging around and came back with a few questions. I think I want a ffp reticle as I’m understanding that this is best for taking accurate shots at various distances. I read a drawback is a very small and illegible reticle at less magnification. Is this true for say a Vortex Viper PST Gen II 3-15x44? I’m looking (so far) at these below. One was recommended above and the other I found seems to have better glass (you tell me). This new upper (again 20” Larue UU in 5.56) will be shooting factory loads of imi 77gr. As that’s what I stacked deep. Reloading won’t happen till prices and availability come back. While I’m realistically just shooting paper and watermelon I don’t care for the max scope range to be more than what is effective to take out small game. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/402445/9C931E1A-AE72-4D7A-AC06-881B9D3D2048_jpe-1881285.JPG View Quote FFP is faster to range on object using the reticle. The reticle does get smaller as you zoom out, and subtensions are useless at 2X on my scope, but why would I need to use them at low power? If I use 2-3X, it's going to be for very close range. Here's what you're going to do. Get familiar with milliradians starting now. Search and read. Begin thinking in MRADs, centimeters, decimeters, and meters. Sounds like a pain, but it becomes simple once applied to shooting. (Size of object in meters X 1000) ÷ measurement of object in reticle subtensions = distance in meters. A stop sign is .79 meters from flat to flat. At an unknown distance It measures 3.9 mil using the reticle. .79 X 1000 = 790. 790 ÷ 3.9 = 202.56 meters. Learn the dimensions of the targets you'll be shooting. Hunters learn the physical dimensions of their prey. Snipers learn human dimensions plus dimensions of things humans are often near, particularly in urban environments where they can pre range objects at various distances. Learn how fast your prey runs, and how much lead they take at various distances. Learn how to read wind. Also, become intimate with the ballistics of your ammo. Use an online ballistic calculator to get a rough idea for the range you want to zero at for the maximum practical point blank range. Shoot at various distances to confirm. The vortex scope manual is good for info. As for the scopes you listed, it appears they're identical except for the reticle design. I prefer simpler because I can easily make out the subtensions quickly. I went with the 2-10 because it's lighter in weight, 2X is quite comfortable viewing both eyes open up close, and the eyebox is huge. It also has the simpler reticle. I might go for a Christmas tree type if shooting a long range gun. I'd probably get a Razor for LR. |
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"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth- and the amusing thing about it is that they are." ~ Father Kevin Keaney, 1stMarDiv Chaplain
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[Last Edit: MS556]
[#19]
Originally Posted By JUDGED12carried6: Purchased a Larue Ultimate Upper configured with a 20” 5.56 Stealth barrel. This will be my first scoped rifle. I’m looking to spend around $700 but can go up to 1K on some glass. I always talk myself into spending more than I want to. If someone that knows scopes and is tracking sales can help me out that would be appreciated. I will also keep an eye out for sales if I can get a few recommendations. I will lurk around here and read. Let me know what other literature can help get me started. To this point most of my experience is with iron sights and red dots. View Quote Here is an excellent blog on optics: https://opticsthoughts.com/ Ilya is a member here (Darklordofoptics). He is perhaps the most knowledgeable and objective source of information on the subject. |
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[#20]
Thanks. Briefly checked it out. Will dig in some more later.
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"Individual liberty and freedom are not outmoded concepts," San Diego-based U.S. District Judge Roger Benitez
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[#21]
Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: Here's what you're going to do. Get familiar with milliradians starting now. Search and read. Begin thinking in MRADs, centimeters, decimeters, and meters. Sounds like a pain, but it becomes simple once applied to shooting. (Size of object in meters X 1000) ÷ measurement of object in reticle subtensions = distance in meters. A stop sign is .79 meters from flat to flat. At an unknown distance It measures 3.9 mil using the reticle. .79 X 1000 = 790. 790 ÷ 3.9 = 202.56 meters. Learn the dimensions of the targets you'll be shooting. Hunters learn the physical dimensions of their prey. Snipers learn human dimensions plus dimensions of things humans are often near, particularly in urban environments where they can pre range objects at various distances. Learn how fast your prey runs, and how much lead they take at various distances. Learn how to read wind. View Quote You do not have to think in metric with mils. Big mistake people make thinking this. You can do the same thing with imperial. Target size in yards x 1000 / target reading in mils = target distance in yards Also using a tool like the mildot master makes ranging very easy but ranging with a reticle is a dying art anyways and a cheap LRF will get you closer especially if you are guesstimating the target size to begin with. I have used mils for almost 30 years and never once used the metric system. No one I know who shoots with mils use the metric system. |
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[#22]
Originally Posted By JUDGED12carried6: Thanks. Briefly checked it out. Will dig in some more later. View Quote Not to diminish anything anyone is saying here but keep in mind many on this subforum are experts in this subject matter with skills that took many years to acquire. While I'm sure they're explaining in what to them is very basic terms its way over my head. I have a range finder and I'll download a ballistic calculator and go punch some paper and ring some gongs and then decide how far down the rabbit hole i want to go. |
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[#23]
Originally Posted By Rob01: You do not have to think in metric with mils. Big mistake people make thinking this. You can do the same thing with imperial. Target size in yards x 1000 / target reading in mils = target distance in yards Also using a tool like the mildot master makes ranging very easy but ranging with a reticle is a dying art anyways and a cheap LRF will get you closer especially if you are guesstimating the target size to begin with. I have used mils for almost 30 years and never once used the metric system. No one I know who shoots with mils use the metric system. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Rob01: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: Here's what you're going to do. Get familiar with milliradians starting now. Search and read. Begin thinking in MRADs, centimeters, decimeters, and meters. Sounds like a pain, but it becomes simple once applied to shooting. (Size of object in meters X 1000) ÷ measurement of object in reticle subtensions = distance in meters. A stop sign is .79 meters from flat to flat. At an unknown distance It measures 3.9 mil using the reticle. .79 X 1000 = 790. 790 ÷ 3.9 = 202.56 meters. Learn the dimensions of the targets you'll be shooting. Hunters learn the physical dimensions of their prey. Snipers learn human dimensions plus dimensions of things humans are often near, particularly in urban environments where they can pre range objects at various distances. Learn how fast your prey runs, and how much lead they take at various distances. Learn how to read wind. You do not have to think in metric with mils. Big mistake people make thinking this. You can do the same thing with imperial. Target size in yards x 1000 / target reading in mils = target distance in yards Also using a tool like the mildot master makes ranging very easy but ranging with a reticle is a dying art anyways and a cheap LRF will get you closer especially if you are guesstimating the target size to begin with. I have used mils for almost 30 years and never once used the metric system. No one I know who shoots with mils use the metric system. I didn't make a mistake. |
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"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth- and the amusing thing about it is that they are." ~ Father Kevin Keaney, 1stMarDiv Chaplain
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[#24]
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[#25]
Originally Posted By Rob01: You made a choice but one that is not needed. It’s a mistake to tell people they have to use meters with mils. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Rob01: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: I didn't make a mistake. You made a choice but one that is not needed. It’s a mistake to tell people they have to use meters with mils. I didn't tell anyone they have to use the metric system, I'm only doing OP a favor. The metric system is superior. |
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"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth- and the amusing thing about it is that they are." ~ Father Kevin Keaney, 1stMarDiv Chaplain
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[#26]
Can either of you comment on my previous post?
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"Individual liberty and freedom are not outmoded concepts," San Diego-based U.S. District Judge Roger Benitez
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[Last Edit: GreenMushroom]
[#27]
The 7 is the newer reticle but in reviews a lot of people like the 2 better. The first focal makes the drops accurate no matter what magnification. Second focal are only accurate at max power. The drops become really usable on 10x. You could use them in a pinch at 8x or even lower. I can see using it on 10x a lot because the eyebox is much more forgiving and the fov is better. It also has the tactical turrets so you can dial if you want. The illumination is quite bright for a scope of this type. Not quite aimpoint bright but impressive.
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/viper-pst2-3-15-as-a-starter-scope.7069101/ On 3x the center reticle is very fine but it has thick posts that come in from the sides and bottom that act as a kind of bracket for fast up close shooting. With the big eyebox and wide fov it should work well but I haven't tried it yet. My smrs has a similar reticle and its awesome. As you increase power the side posts draw away and the fine center becomes the long range reticle. U can see the tree by 6x, its small but probably doable on 8x, and I'd consider fully functional on 10x. |
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[#28]
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[#29]
Originally Posted By GreenMushroom: The 7 is the newer reticle but in reviews a lot of people like the 2 better. The first focal makes the drops accurate no matter what magnification. Second focal are only accurate at max power. The drops become really usable on 10x. You could use them in a pinch at 8x or even lower. I can see using it on 10x a lot because the eyebox is much more forgiving and the fov is better. It also has the tactical turrets so you can dial if you want. The illumination is quite bright for a scope of this type. Not quite aimpoint bright but impressive. https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/viper-pst2-3-15-as-a-starter-scope.7069101/ On 3x the center reticle is very fine but it has thick posts that come in from the sides and bottom that act as a kind of bracket for fast up close shooting. With the big eyebox and wide fov it should work well but I haven't tried it yet. My smrs has a similar reticle and its awesome. As you increase power the side posts draw away and the fine center becomes the long range reticle. U can see the tree by 6x, its small but probably doable on 8x, and I'd consider fully functional on 10x. View Quote The 2 you see people speaking of is the 2C and not the 2D, which is a small batch reticle. The 2C is the reticle that the 7C replaced. I have used both extensively and like both. In some situations I like the small open center of the 2C and some I like the dot of the 7C. The other small differences are the placement of the numbers on the tree and the .2 mil marks on the horizontal line. Now the 2D is a good option for someone who wants to save a little money and also likes a closed center reticle. Another thing is the illumination is only on the main crosshairs of the 2D. Just little things to look at. Other than that the scopes are the same. No difference in glass. If you will be using the reticle of the scope for more than just a center crosshair then FFP makes the scope more usable. SFP is only correct in it's subtensions on one power, not always max power but a majority. As mentioned at the lower powers do not plan to use the reticle for holds but usually when using the lower powers you are closer and don't need them or you are scanning for a target and then dial up to take the shot. Green's description of when the reticle is good are about right on. 8x is about where I can fully use the reticle. Will be this way with most every FFP scope reticle and not just the PST. I have used many FFP scope over the years and most all you can start to use them at around 8x. Under not so much. The thing people get tunnel vision on is that low power but they don't realize that they won't be there as much as the higher powers. People buy 5-25x scopes and worry about the reticle at 5x when most of their shooting will be 10x and above. If you need to use the scope at 5x a majority of the time then you bought the wrong scope. Think the majority of your shooting and don't get fixated on the lowest power. You can still see the reticle as an aiming point but not the holdmarks as clearly for holds. And turning on the illumination helps even more. |
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[Last Edit: GreenMushroom]
[#30]
Thanks. Do you know if that's a europtic only? I had read somewhere that my lht was. Something like they made a couple changes like parralex having different marks and make a big batch that europtic or Midway sell well below msrp of the regular model.
So do the reticles usually become usable at a % of total power or generally at a given power. Say 8x on my 3-15 is roughly 50%. Would the 5-25 be usable at 8x or more like 12x (50%). Where would the higher mag ffp lpvo fit into this like the credo/nx8/razor/March 1-8/1-10? Op didn't really specify his needs but im looking for some basic competency at 500-800 yds with minimal practice. I've recently picked up a couple carbines and NV in addition to the heavier rifles and it all requires training time. My plan is to learn my reticle holds and use a lrf (leica 2700). After some initial practice I'm hoping I can maintain a rudimentary skill level by getting out once a month or so. |
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[#31]
Originally Posted By GreenMushroom: Thanks. Do you know if that's a europtic only? I had read somewhere that my lht was. Something like they made a couple changes like parralex having different marks and make a big batch that europtic or Midway sell well below msrp of the regular model. So do the reticles usually become usable at a % of total power or generally at a given power. Say 8x on my 3-15 is roughly 50%. Would the 5-25 be usable at 8x or more like 12x (50%). Where would the higher mag ffp lpvo fit into this like the credo/nx8/razor/March 1-8/1-10? Op didn't really specify his needs but im looking for some basic competency at 500-800 yds with minimal practice. I've recently picked up a couple carbines and NV in addition to the heavier rifles and it all requires training time. My plan is to learn my reticle holds and use a lrf (leica 2700). After some initial practice I'm hoping I can maintain a rudimentary skill level by getting out once a month or so. View Quote I don't know if it is a dedicated Euro Optic scope but it's the only place I have seen them with the 2D. That depends on the reticle specs in other scope but even in higher powered like my Razor II 4.5-27 at about 8x it works fine. My NF and S&Bs were around 8x also. I have the 7C in a 3-15 and 5-25 and both are good around 8x. The LPVO is a different beast. The reticle is usable down lower for holds. My Razor III is good around 4-5x if I remember correctly. Haven't had it out recently. Practice always helps so shoot when you can but tough to do in the way ammo/components are right now. |
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[#32]
Is the 7C worth 300 over the 2D?
Or at that price point should I be looking at an entirely different scope? |
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"Individual liberty and freedom are not outmoded concepts," San Diego-based U.S. District Judge Roger Benitez
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[#33]
I don't think so. Imo you'd gain a lot more with 300$ worth of IMI 77grain to practice with. The main difference i can tell is the c has an open center and the d the cross hairs are continuous. Me or you probably wouldn't notice unless one of these guys pointed it out.
https://blog.scopelist.com/ebr-2c-vs-ebr-7c-reticles-everything-you-wanted-to-know/#EBR-7C_vs_EBR-2C_Comparison |
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[#34]
Originally Posted By JUDGED12carried6: Is the 7C worth 300 over the 2D? Or at that price point should I be looking at an entirely different scope? View Quote That would be up to the end user to determine. Both are plenty usable for holds. Do you like a closed center reticle or a dot? Do you need the whole reticle to illuminate? And no for the price point. Even with the 7C it's in the price range for similar optics. |
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[#35]
Originally Posted By GreenMushroom: I don't think so. Imo you'd gain a lot more with 300$ worth of IMI 77grain to practice with. The main difference i can tell is the c has an open center and the d the cross hairs are continuous. Me or you probably wouldn't notice unless one of these guys pointed it out. https://blog.scopelist.com/ebr-2c-vs-ebr-7c-reticles-everything-you-wanted-to-know/#EBR-7C_vs_EBR-2C_Comparison View Quote That is not a 2C he is looking at. It is a 2D. Different reticle. |
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[#36]
I'm aware. I'm assuming he knows what the 2d looks like.
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[#37]
Just trying to see that he does and has all the info he needs and not assuming the 2C is the 2D.
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[#38]
Originally Posted By Rob01: That would be up to the end user to determine. Both are plenty usable for holds. Do you like a closed center reticle or a dot? Do you need the whole reticle to illuminate? And no for the price point. Even with the 7C it's in the price range for similar optics. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Rob01: Originally Posted By JUDGED12carried6: Is the 7C worth 300 over the 2D? Or at that price point should I be looking at an entirely different scope? That would be up to the end user to determine. Both are plenty usable for holds. Do you like a closed center reticle or a dot? Do you need the whole reticle to illuminate? And no for the price point. Even with the 7C it's in the price range for similar optics. I think I would prefer an open center or cross hair over a dot. Can I cross hair blur blur a target under a certain circumstance? If so maybe I want open and visualize the axis? I understand the difference between the three models we have been talking about. I assume I would want the whole reticle to light up of trying to pinpoint a shot under low light conditions. With just the cross hair illuminated I would be applying a little Kentucky windage maybe? So far the 7C is the most detailed reticle for aid in calculating a shot is that right? |
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"Individual liberty and freedom are not outmoded concepts," San Diego-based U.S. District Judge Roger Benitez
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[#40]
Is the open center so you can see the poi? If so I think I can appreciate that. I have good eye site and think this would work for me. Blinding the target with either other reticle doesn’t look to be an issue as the dot and crosshairs appear to be quite small. Possibly illumination level or fatigue come into play with that. If I’m being honest with myself I could be happy with either three. Times I plan on using in low light honestly not often. I think it is legit to be prepared for such cases. When I’m new to something I ask a lot of questions. My concerns may be unfounded but I look forward too everyone’s responses either way to help make an informed purchase.
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"Individual liberty and freedom are not outmoded concepts," San Diego-based U.S. District Judge Roger Benitez
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[#41]
Originally Posted By JUDGED12carried6: Is the open center so you can see the poi? If so I think I can appreciate that. I have good eye site and think this would work for me. Blinding the target with either other reticle doesn’t look to be an issue as the dot and crosshairs appear to be quite small. Possibly illumination level or fatigue come into play with that. If I’m being honest with myself I could be happy with either three. Times I plan on using in low light honestly not often. I think it is legit to be prepared for such cases. When I’m new to something I ask a lot of questions. My concerns may be unfounded but I look forward too everyone’s responses either way to help make an informed purchase. View Quote No, more so you can see your POA better for small targets. The opening is very small but just big enough to see through. That is the 2C and you will have to look for someone selling one or a vendor who has them left over as they have been replaced by the 7C. I understand asking the questions and wanting to make the right choice but it's only you that can make that determination. Have to weigh the chances of using the full tree illumination with dot versus crosshair versus the cost savings and what you are comfortable spending. As you said you really would most likely be happy with any of the three. I used to have the older 1C reticle which is like the 2D but without the christmas tree portion and there were no problems hitting smaller targets as the crosshair is not overly heavy. |
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[#42]
How does this compare to the Vortex scopes I’ve been kicking tires on? Deep discounted scope that is being sold for much more on optics planet. Pros and cons?
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020619511?pid=961295 |
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"Individual liberty and freedom are not outmoded concepts," San Diego-based U.S. District Judge Roger Benitez
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