If you were to get a new bullet for a rifle and wanted to most quickly get to an accurate loads, would you shoot different powders 1st or try to same powder with different seating depths?

Example. 150 grn Nosler BT for a 308.
If I had say N140, IMR4064, H414 and Varget.

Let’s assume we have worked up to the max loaded grn listed in book and they are all safe for arguments sake.

I also don’t not have neck sizing dies specifically for neck tension so all reloads are FL resized casings on RCBS dies.

Would you work more on 1 powder with different seating depths or 1 seating depth with different powders?

This is a specific example but also a question in general, how do you usually start working in a caliber.

Sub MOA at 100 yards is goal.

The possibilities are endless....
New brass?  Once fired brass?  Twice fired brass?  Full re-size? What's your brass processing procedure for previously fired brass?  
Cartridge length, Cartridge weight?  Which primer?  Which Powder?  Which bullet?  Which seating depth - COAL?  CBTO?  Are there magazine size limitations on your OAL that you have to account for?  

I settled on a few specific variables, and work the loads to the best possible outcome, using those variables.  I chose one brand of brass, primer, powder, and bullets.  I developed a consistent process for reviving my previously fired brass.  And using trial and error, I made the most accurate load I could possibly get using those specific components - without driving myself crazy in the process.  

Of course, YMMV.

If I am trying to be reasonably efficient, I think I can get a load developed from start to finish in about 60 rounds...

First I select the components and determine the initial seating depth.

I then shoot a 9 or 10-shot ladder spanning 4 to 4.5 grain charge range in 0.5 grain increments and shoot it over a chrono to get an idea about MVs and safety (pressure signs or the lack thereof) in the chosen range of charges.  Assuming no problems...

Next I use intuition, experience, and a look at optimal barrel times for my barrel length and some QuickLoad predictions to come up with a smaller range of charges to look at more closely where I think I will find my optimal charge weight..  I take my best guess at what that charge weight will be and then load up 2 11-shot ladder spanning 2 full grains in 0.2 grain increments starting 1 grain below my guess and going up to 1 grain over that guess.  I then shoot 1 ladder over a chrono and 1 ladder at targets at 200 or 300 yards (depending on what is available at the time).  Next I look at the targets and the chrono data and choose my "optimal" charge weight.

Last but not least, I use about 27 rounds to do seating depth testing - I shoot 3 shot groups using the "optimal" charge seating bullets @ 9 different seating depths (micrometer seating die is essential for this step).  With a little luck, I find at least 2 adjacent "tight" groups...  If I get 3 adjacent tight groups - all the better...  

Below is a composite image of my last range trip where I shot an 11-shot ladder (11 shots spanning 2 grains of charge weights) at targets.  The range was 200 yards - the orange dot is 1.5 inches and the blue circle is 2 inches (1 MOA) in diameter. If you get lucky, you might get your desired accuracy without having to do seating depth testing!    The charge I chose as my "optimal" charge was the charge corresponding to hole #9 - 43.3 grains of Varget.  Seating depth testing is coming up this weekend (weather permitting)...

I start all load development by researching what others used with that bullet/ bullet makers listed loads/ different powder makers listed loads and last but least, my gut instinct from other loads I have made..I compare them all and decide which one gives me the best chance to get a working load...once selected, I do a 3 rd charge test normally 7% below my expected peak charge to a bit over it..I want to know exactly where it hits pressure, I always start about 0.010" off the lands or mag length, which ever is longer..once I hit pressure I decide which shows best promise and load a second batch with that charge weight but with varied seating depth and then compare the results..If I did everything right, I should have a workable load, and I repeat the charge test with the best seating depth results to verify I am getting the most out of the load...

.308 brass has the widest case capacity variations on the market. Pick one brand and stick with it for load development. Weigh the unprimed cases to understand where you sit on the continuum. Winchester commercial .308 has been as light as 155 grains in some lots, Lake City and foreign 7.62x51mm brass will weigh 180 grains or more empty. Huge difference in what can safely be loaded in military brass, usually 2.0 full grains less than Winchester.

Forget about H414 in .308.

Varget is considered one of the very best powders for this caliber, as is IMR-4064.

I use a chronograph and load in .5 grain increments. .5 grains in .308 reflects approximately 30 fps increments. I don't hot rod my loads. 2700 to 2750 fps is more than enough from a 24" barrel shooting 150 grain bullets. Nosler has load data available online.

I load up the hottest load (velocity goal something less than maximum) with five rounds. I make five round batches dropping .5 grains each batch. For example I might load 44.5 grains of IMR-4064 in your example as (my) max. then 44.0, 43.5, 43,0, and 42.5 grains. This would be for a total of 25 rounds. I shoot the lowest charge first in five shot groups to check for accuracy. I watch for pressure signs as I go up in powder charges.

Each target gets marked with the load data for future reference. I inspect the groups and decide to refine from there. For arguments sake, lets say the 43.5 and 43.0 grain loads shot the best. I might load up 43.3 or 43.2 grains in my next outing hoping to split the difference and establish a load that is directly in the middle of my accuracy window.

This is more than satisfactory for quickly establishing a useable load in one rifle, using one bullet and identical brass.  

Yea, I’ve never messed with or even considered using military brass for relo.

I guess my question was more pointed at do you work the bullet seating or powder and powder charges first.  

I have always worked the powder route 1st but the more I’m reading,  it seems like some folks will pick a powder and attack the seating depth for accuracy.

I realize it’s endless combinations but always wondered about going with 1 powder right below or at max and then different seating depths to start the process.

Eric Cortina had a great video that really demystified reloading for me. It was a true epiphany moment.
He categorizes reloading into three things: Combustion, Harmonics, and Long Range. To summarize:

He says find the most consistent velocity performance from your brass, primer and powder.  He went so far to say when he's doing this he doesn't even shoot at paper.

Next, group it - harmonics. If it's consistent velocity but won't group, change seating depth.

Once it groups, shoot long range. if there's problems there it's a problem with your BC/bullets.
Video here:


I'm starting a round of load development once some new equipment arrives, and personally I'm going to be trying The Satterlee Method in a departure from the traditional load 5 depending on grain and shoot:




Disclaimer, not an expert. just someone with too much time.

I do the Satterlee method as well. Extremely efficient and haven't had a gun or bullet/powder combo not work with this method.

I even tried it with my first subsonic 308 load development and it worked with that too, which was kind of surprising.

First thing I do is load steps to get a powder weight.

It rarely takes more than about 12 cases and six steps (1-2 gr depending on load weight)
Start low, move up.
AS soon as you see pressure signs stop and unload the remaining shells.
It goes faster if you can weigh powder and seat bullets at the range.

A few more rounds to test out bullet jump to rifling.

That serious accuracy testing.

I often use 5 or 6 shot groups initially, then when one starts looking good, 10 shot groups.

It takes some time because I do not want to heat up the barrel.

I do have a CO2 barrel cooling system.
It uses a nylon action protecting insert for cleaning that has a taped hole in the end for the CO2 hose.

Just some 3/8 in nylon tubing.
You need to be careful to not over cool the barrel though.
CO2 is very cold at this point (around -110 F).
Tried using just ambient air initially but it took longer than I wanted to spend.

I use a thermocouple on the breech end of the barrel to monitor temperature.
About 2 inches from the action.

I note what the temperature is initially.
Fire shots, watch for any rise.

If I need to cool it down I can either wait, or use the CO2 system to return it to
around the same temperature if it has warmed.
It usually just takes seconds of gas to cool it back down.
I do not use a regulator, but simply crack the tank valve a little.

If I chill it more than desired I might load up a few shells to warm it back up.

I get some strange looks, but then when the see me packing up after only an hour or so and how few rounds I fire they understand.

I start at 100 yards.
With a good load I can get C2C groups that are on ragged hole for the most part.
I do have a BR measuring setup on a caliper.

I have plenty of calipers in the ship, so no cost there.

Target Measuring Tool

If things are going well, and the wind is not blowing bullets all over the place, I might switch to 200 yards, and then 500 yards.

This is my current procedure. It evolves a little every time I get a new barrel but has remained essentially the same in the major parts for a very long time and it's provided me with a solid load in <50 shots every time. Characterizing my scopes takes more shots.

Find the powders that give closest to 98% case fill at max charge. This is a critical step and usually takes a decent amount of research. If not done correctly then the rest of my procedure can become rapidly dangerous because charge weight identification is done AFTER the starting charge weight is selected. I select from the powders that give ~98% case fill at or near mach charge weight, from that set I select the ones with the highest expected velocity and then select the ones with the lowest pressure from that group, then select the ones that takes the smallest charge weight from that group. When I land at just 1 or 2 powders in the list I either have no choice to make or pick the more temperature stable one. I do this before I even order a barrel or brass or bullets. Then I order enough of my selected powder to last the lifetime of the barrel (usually 8lbs is enough). Then I select the bullet I will use and order enough to last the lifetime of the barrel. Then I order 1/10 the number of cases as the barrel life is expected to be + 10% extra (to cover culling), so I will end up reloading each case ~10x.

To get "the load" sorted: Load the case to the shoulder/body junction, weigh that charge and note it as my starting load and load up 25 of those starting at .040" off the lands. On the barrels I use they are typically fully broken in between round 12 and round 20. Usually by shot #15 they're good to go. I will not clean the barrel at all until load development is done other than for the first 5 shots, I run a carbon patch through between each shot. Then I run up loads in .5gr increments loading 5 of each for 4-5 sets or until I hit max or start crunching granules. I'll shoot the lowest charge weight load that I made 25 of to break in the barrel until velocities stop climbing and stabilize. Then I'll shoot a velocity record set from each charge weight set. Graph the data to find the charge weight zone that's most stable (likely to be near the top). Then play with seating depth at .010/.040/.080/.120 jumps with 3-shots each starting at .010 off. There's usually a progression that appears in the seating depth bit and usually it's on the close side. Find the closest I can be to the lands and the farthest I can be and still get decent group size. Start at the closest and about every 500 rounds measure jam length and adjust the seating die as necessary. Done.

Draw your biggest parameters and hard lines first.  Work out from there staying within parameters.


One of my biggies that may not be the same for everyone.  Mag length rounds.  I have no desire to make a single shot rifle out of my bolt guns.

Bullet choice for the purpose.
Minimum performance required, ie minimum velocity required for an expansion at required distance.

Then I go into powder, suitable primer for it and the best brass I am willing to pay for.  

Hopefully I can find relevant relatable anecdotal data that points me in the right direction, where are people commonly finding good nodes?  


Then l load up in o.3 grain increments across those lower or middle node ensuring I get a good above and below range.  Then I keep going toward the upper node maybe a touch over max.  I might stop early if I see case head expansion.  If I do, those cases are marked as compromised.   If I have no expected node info then I just work up from under a middle charge.

Sometimes it works and I play with seating depths next.  By this time you should have at least once fired your brass so you’re not comparing first fire of virgin brass to 2nd or third firing etc.  


More than once I had to just give up on a bullet and try something else after trying multiple powder types and switching primers,  Accubonds for one,  the 6.5 142 SMK for another.  Lapuas and 140 smks were trouble free.