Anyone running this with the 6.5 CM?

I have been using the Hornady ELD with RL16 and am curious if the hybrid is sensative about jump to rifling?

the ELD appears to be a hybrid secant/tangent ogive and is not sensative to jump in my Tikka T3X CTR.  While the Nosler RDF is.

I wanted to rty some Bergers and wondered about this and if the .317 G7 BC has held up in your experience?

the ELD in my rifle is safe and accurate w 43.4-43.6 grains RL 16, hornady brass, F210M primer and 2815-2830 fps from 24 inch staiinless Tikka barrel. Long throat in the tikka and I am 2.895 to 2.900 OCL.

thanks!

The 140's are so yesterday

https://bergerbullets.com/product/6-5-mm-144-grain-long-range-hybrid-target/

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To answer your question about "jump", I believe that is the primary reason for hybrids, to get as close to VLD BC's as possible without being jump sensitive.

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Thanks for head up Ironmaker!

Will deffinately try some.

That 144 gr Berger is shorter than the 140 grain Nosler RDF (1.420) that likes 65/1000 jump and no more or less in my rifle.  Very finicky.

It looks like it is shorter than even the 140 hybrid (1.426) in Litz's library.  Does not show up in the on line JBM pull down menu when calculatiing trajectory.

I will try it w my 140 and 147 grain RL16 data and let you all know.

46-50 cents apeice from several sources plus shipping.

Anyone using RL 16 with this bullet yet???

If you are getting good accuracy results with the ELD, why even try the more expensive Berger?  I started reloading 8 years ago, with good results from Berger bullets, but it took a lot normally to work up a load.  I've started switching to the less expensive ELD-M and ELD-X bullets with good success.  In general, they don't seem to be as jump sensitive as the Berger's, and obviously cost a little less.  Performance on game seems to be on par, and with the ELD-X better for close range shots.

@QCB

The 140 Hybrid is the best bullet I've ever shot out of my 6.5CM. As far as seating depth, everyone parrots that it's not depth sensitive, and it does give you some cushion, however depth definitely matters (see below).

I shoot it with H4350 primarily, but I've also shot it with RL16. RL16 gave me great groups at short range, but at 1k acted a little funny on me the last time I shot it in match; it's also a double based powder and seemed to erode the throat more than H4350 did.

I've seen a lot of guys shoot it at mid-range matches and it's done exceedingly well. At LR the 6.5CM in general gets stomped by the 7mms and 30 cals.

I think guys that report 'problems' getting the hybrids to shoot are generally trying to push them too fast. Mid-high 2800s is what I find best in mine.

I dont' shoot my 6.5CM near as much as I used to. I was playing around with it while I had a couple of Pandas built up for 'serious' FTR work. Those are done now, so my 6.5 has gone unshot for the past couple of months.

Here's a snippet of my load data; not sure if it's of much help:


As far as seating depth sensitivity, here's 3 different 300 yard groups. The only difference was seating the the bullet .005" deeper in the case between the three groups. These were all 'one holing' at 100 yards, at 300 you can see the differences in much greater resolution.



For reference, my barrel is a 30" Bartlein 1:8 twist with a SAAMI 6.5 reamer, on a Kelbly Atlas Tactical action. My charge weights will probably be lighter than yours given the Alpha brass. I also think you're probably pushing those ELDMs pretty freaking hard for as short a barrel as you're running. Do a standard OCW followed by a depth test, from .005" off, working back in .005" increments. You'll probably find a sweet spot by the time you hit .030" off.

Edit: Yes, the G7 BC holds up exactly. I get the most accurate data using Hornady's 4D0F program; I think they even have a ballistic profile for the 140 Hybrid by default. I was shooting FTR a few matches ago, but pulled my 6.5CM out to test E-Targets at 1,000. The Hornady data had me shoot 3 Xs cold bore at 1,000.

Edit 2: I like the Bergers way better than the Hornadys, and I really really wanted to like the Hornady 147s with their .347 G7. I've seen a few of them blow up during 20rd string fire, and the last straw for me was blowing one up myself during a match, which cost me my high master rating. I created a thread about it here. I could get the Hornadys to shoot, and shoot well, but I can't trust them after what I've seen first hand and personally experienced. That said, for informal shooting at steel plates, I'd shoot them...and I will. I've got like ~1,700 of the 147s left over.

Mike,

Thanks for taking time to reply in depth.  That is world class record keeping.

Did you find there was much difference in powder charge w the 140 ELD and Berger?

I know my 43 + grain RL16 load sounds hot but the Tikka appears to have a non standard throat w a lot of free bore.

Even with their long 2.910 magazine it is not possible to seat most bullets 5/1000 or 10/1000 off jam.

The moderator on the Nosler forum ran several Quickload scenarios for me at different OCL and 2825 fps is probably around 57,000 psi. Almost certainly under 60,000.  2,750 fps about same w 147 ELD. The 147 was not quite as accurate in my rifle as the 140 which was just stupid eaasy to get 1/2 inch ES with.  The velocity increased very gradually w the higher charges of RL16, no sudden spike like you get at near maximum pressure.  This was true w both ELD and the RDF.  The RDF took about 0.2 grains more powder to equal velocity of ELD.  It may have a slight advantage in maximum velocity also.  Just very finiky about jump I could not control accurately.

I saw your thread on the 147 ELD.  Bummer.  And no love from Hornady?

I see you are using large primer Alpha brass.  I have been meaning to try some.

RL 16 has a flame temperature only a few degrees higher than H4350 and a lot lower than RL17 or 26 which have the reputation around here as a barrel burner.

thanks Very Much for feedback.

I never ran the 140 ELDMs. I've only ever shot the 130s and the 147s, and only 147s in this barrel. That said, the 147s only required about .5gr lower charge than the 140 Hybrids to tune in. In my gun, RL16 and H4350 tuned in within .1gr of each other over multiple different bullets. RL16 gave me about 15-30 FPS more than H4350, but like I said it gave me strange vertical at 1k. Besides, H4350 shoots so well for me, and I've got like 80lbs of it, so why not?

That's strange about your chamber; I guess Tikka is playing it extra safe? I have a SAAMI PTG reamer and it's a .199FB; hard to imagine you'd want/need more than that. You may get lucky though, my gun tuned in at .028" off the lands with the 140 Hybrid. I think most guns tune in closer, but sometimes it just works out that way.

Regarding RL16 and throat erosion, it's difficult for me to say. I burned out a 30" Kreiger chambered off the same reamer, and it looked like it had 300 rounds on it when I borescoped it, but I was upwards of 2,700 when I pulled it off. It lived on a steady diet of H4350. It could just as easily be a product of the steel used to make the barrel, but my Bartlein was looking a little rougher out of the gate, and the only thing I'd really changed was playing around with RL16.

I agree on the RL17; I don't touch that stuff anymore. RL26, I never messed with it, but a buddy of mine also has a 30" creedmoor for dicking around in F-Open occasionally. He was getting an honest 2930 with 147s out of it. Didn't shoot very consistently at 1k though. Still, that's 6.5x284 territory.

Mike,

Do you have any data you can share on the 144 grain yet?

I just ordered 200 of them and 100 Lapua cases though I will probably start w the Hornady cases as I already have tuned loads for the 140 and 147 ELD.

Depending on lot of powder, the 140 takes 0.7 to 0.9 grains more powder than the 147.  (RL16).

I wonder if the 144 Berger will be more like a 140 or 147?

Originally Posted By Ironmaker:
The 140's are so yesterday

https://bergerbullets.com/product/6-5-mm-144-grain-long-range-hybrid-target/

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/57471/Capture_JPG-1204804.JPG

Damn .879 form factor? I have a nerd boner.

I tried some Berger 135gr Classic Hunter in my 6.5CM.
I found them much more consistent, tighter groups than 140gr ELD-M.
I did not find them too jump sensitive, and better fit the magazine in my Bergara HMR than some of the longer designs.
Berger is pricey, but appears worth it.

A couple Fudds at the range were bragging about their expensive custom rifles; and how I should get one from their gunsmith.  When they saw my groups with the Berger's out of the Bergara, they promptly shut up. ...

YMMV....

I just measured the 144's in my Tikka T3X which has a long throat.  3.022 to jam.  Sikmilar to 140 Nosler RDF which did not shoot well in my rifle until 65/1000 off lands.  Mag length 2.9 max so I hope the Bergers can tolerate a whole lot of jump!