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Posted: 11/15/2016 2:12:47 AM EDT
So I've been working on a couple loads with 75gr Hornady bthp. I worked up a fairly good load with BL-C(2) at 24.5gr. Shot multiple groups at .70 to .9 moa. Some of my groups were up to 1.5moa, but I'm blaming that on myself.

Got some Tac powder to try out. I worked up the load from 23 to 24.5gr (I know this is over max for .223) couple tenths of a grain at a time. Never really found anything my gun likes. The best group I shot was 1.1 moa with 23.5gr and the magneto speed attached.  The magneto speed typically scatters my groups everywhere. at 24.2 and 24.5 I'm getting 2 or three holes touching .3 to .4 moa, then the 4th and 5th open the group up to about 1.4 to 2 moa. 23.5 gave me the best group at 1.2 moa without the magneto speed.

Has anyone had success with Tac and Hornady 75gr?  I'm trying to figure out if my gun just hates this powder, or more likely, I just suck at shooting. I'm leaning towards it being my shooting. With the bl-c(2) (which seems to get trashed by everyone) I could at least get multiple sub moa groups. Not all the time, but more than 60% were moa or better (at the sweet spot 24.5gr load). What confuses me though is my 55gr sp load is consistently shooting .7 to .8 moa. 60gr factory v-max is at .5 to .7 moa. 75gr black hills blue box i have never shot better than 1 inch. I guess what I'm saying is, I know I'm not the best shooter, but with other powders and loads I've been able to get at least a few sub moa groups out of a range session. With the Tac I haven't gotten a sub moa group through the entire workup.

Barrel is 18" 1:8 WOA mid gas. Most groups fired from bench with bipod and rear bag. 1.2 moa group with tac was fired with front and rear bags.

Should I give up on the powder, strap the gun to the bench and try again, switch bullets, all of the above? What do you think?
Link Posted: 11/15/2016 8:22:25 AM EDT
[#1]
I'd be interested in some feed back here also. I have the same almost exact issue with my FN 15 Tactical Carbine. Can't find a bullet powder combination that suits my expectations.
Link Posted: 11/15/2016 8:44:33 AM EDT
[#2]
I seem to remember 24gr TAC under the 75gr BTHP with a slight crimp and Remington 7.5 being a common XTC load, at least back in '09.
Link Posted: 11/15/2016 9:44:12 AM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 11/15/2016 10:34:25 AM EDT
[#4]
Yes. 5 shots with magnetospeed. Then 2, 5 shot groups with magnetospeed removed. Did that for all charge weights.
Link Posted: 11/16/2016 12:43:05 AM EDT
[#5]
Thanks Brony

I have not crimped at all. How important is the crimp? Is that to give consistent neck tension?

Another general question about load development. When looking at my groups would it be better to continue to develop a load that produced several shots almost touching with a flier that brings it to say 2 moa, or develop the load that produced more of a shotgun pattern at say 1.2 moa? I can never tell if the load is accurate and I just pull shots, or if there is inherently fliers with said load.
Link Posted: 11/16/2016 4:05:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HighpowerRifleBrony] [#6]
I'm guessing the crimp helped make consistent pressure curves, but that may be chamber dependent. I personally don't crimp at all.





I'd probably go with the 1.2 MOA load. With that, I say focus on followthrough when dryfiring and livefiring, and watch the reticle's behavior after the trigger breaks. If your shot call consistently matches closely to the hit, then the cluster+pulled shot may be better.

 
Link Posted: 11/17/2016 8:53:05 PM EDT
[#7]
I never had any luck with Hornady 75gr no matter how hard I tried in my 1/8 Noveske barrel. Right around 24gr TAC with a 77 SMK or Nosler, mixed LC brass and #41 primers is a solid moa load and 2750fps or so. I could probably do better but I set the progressive up and just run with this one.
Link Posted: 11/24/2016 11:05:53 AM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 11/24/2016 11:43:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: borderpatrol] [#9]
Loads that work;

22.0 grains to 23.0 grains of IMR-8208-XBR or H4895.

23.0 grains to 24.0 grains of RE-15, N140, Varget, N540.

23.5 grains of N540 hammers in my bolt action. It produces 2720 fps from it's 26" barrel. around 2600 fps from a 20". 75 grain Hornady bullets are very good, but some rifles simply prefer Nosler or Sierra 77's. You have to try different bullets to discover what shoots best in your barrel.

I don't use ball powders any longer. I feel extruded powders shoot better over a wider range of powder charges i.e. more forgiving. They never spike on me in hot weather, something I can't say holds true for the ball variety.
Link Posted: 11/24/2016 1:43:40 PM EDT
[#10]
http://www.radomski.us/njhp/cart_tech.htm

Some Pet Loads, just in case you find them handy for perspective.
Link Posted: 11/24/2016 9:29:40 PM EDT
[#11]
Nosler and SMK 77s have always seemed much easier to tune and to get better accuracy from. Lower nodes/velocities seem to work better with Hornady 75 in my guns
Link Posted: 11/27/2016 4:00:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer] [#12]
Here's my data:

23.5 gr TAC
75 gr Hornady HPBT-M
WInchester case
Winchester SR primer
OAL  - magazine length loads, ~2.24" (bullet tip causes variation in OAL)

n = 26
Average = 2839 fps
SD = 21 fps

Group size ~ 3/4 MOA vertical at 200 yards

Horizontal groups are wider due to fishtailing winds but there's no reason to suspect groups are wider than they are tall, so let's call it ~1 MOA overall.

Link Posted: 11/27/2016 7:22:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: borderpatrol] [#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Trollslayer:
Here's my data:

23.5 gr TAC
75 gr Hornady HPBT-M
WInchester case
Winchester SR primer
OAL  - magazine length loads, ~2.24" (bullet tip causes variation in OAL)

n = 26
Average = 2839 fps
SD = 21 fps

Group size ~ 3/4 MOA vertical at 200 yards

Barrel length? Velocity seems really high to me.





Horizontal groups are wider due to fishtailing winds but there's no reason to suspect groups are wider than they are tall, so let's call it ~1 MOA overall.

View Quote


Barrel length? Velocity seems really high to me.
Link Posted: 11/28/2016 12:17:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GySgt_D] [#14]
Yeah, that's the velocity I get when I use 25.1gr of TAC in a 16" barrel.

BTW, I do not actually load to that level.  That is just what I got up to when developing a load with a wylde chamber, which just happened to be on a cool day.  Dropping down to 24.8 grains, in a wylde chamber on a hot day, gives me quite obvious pressure signs.  Makes me think that TAC isn't particularly temp stable.
Link Posted: 11/28/2016 1:52:16 AM EDT
[#15]
Thanks for all the input guys. I'll give it another shot, then maybe try some 77gr SMK, Also thinking about picking up some 8208xbr. My original goal was to get some loads developed with multiple powders. In the event things got hard to find later I would already have some loads developed.

I've loaded up another batch at 23.7, 24.0, and 24.5.  I put a light crimp on this new batch. I also purchased a flash hole uniforming tool. I fired the BL-C(2) loads with the same brass before I had the tool, so that wouldn't account for the accuracy difference, but I figure it couldn't hurt.

That velocity does seem high. I'm getting 2600fps with 23.5gr of TAC out of an 18" barrel.

Unfortunately I most likely will not get back to the range until after the new year. Maybe sometime in Dec if I'm lucky.



Link Posted: 11/30/2016 12:28:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer] [#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
Barrel length? Velocity seems really high to me.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
Barrel length? Velocity seems really high to me.


Originally Posted By mbtech:
That velocity does seem high. I'm getting 2600fps with 23.5gr of TAC out of an 18" barrel.



Yes, barrel length.*  IIRC, it's about 2550 fps out of a 16" barrel.

It's not the velocity that's important to the OP, it's the SD and accuracy (group size).  TAC is capable of better accuracy than he's getting but in my testing it gave larger groups (an average around 3/4 MOA vs 1/2 MOA for Varget).



*  Doh!  I did not record the barrel length in my spreadsheet, but the velocity tells me it is from a match barrel that's 28" long.  I could be wrong because I didn't record the length.
Link Posted: 12/3/2016 12:50:41 AM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By newguy2k3:
I never had any luck with Hornady 75gr no matter how hard I tried in my 1/8 Noveske barrel. Right around 24gr TAC with a 77 SMK or Nosler, mixed LC brass and #41 primers is a solid moa load and 2750fps or so. I could probably do better but I set the progressive up and just run with this one.
View Quote


I'm in same boat. No luck with hornady 75gr hpbt... lots of other people too.... try another bullet like 77gr smk or tmk
Link Posted: 12/3/2016 10:30:35 AM EDT
[#18]
I'm with the others, 75gr BTHP's have never shot exceptionally well in any of my AR's.  Now, a Savage 10FP over H4895?  That's a different story!  

I ended up sticking with 77gr SMK's over TAC or Varget.  Varget is consistently more accurate, but a much bigger pain in the ass to load with on a progressive...so I try stick with TAC and Wolf primers.  That being said, I still have around 700 or so 75's that I plan on trying in a couple of 18" SPR barrels I picked up, maybe they will like them better than the 16 & 20" barrels I've already tried them in.
Link Posted: 12/3/2016 11:02:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: leid] [#19]
OP,
    As mentioned above, the SMK or TMK may shoot better out of your barrel. SMKs are the more accurate mag-length bullet I have used so far, just a 0.1 MOA or two more than the TMK in my 18". But SMKs definitely lack the terminal performance of the TMK on flesh & bone targets. And speed does become important when you shoot at LR with an 18" to keep the bullet supersonic.  ES/SD with TAC come way down as you approach MAX 5.56MM NATO pressure levels. ES/SD of TAC at .223 pressure levels is usually on the high side for LR precision shooting. A 77GR. SMK over 5.56MM NATO pressure  IMR 8208 XBR load is a little slower but will out-shoot the TAC load in this rifle. And 77GR. SMK over 5.56MM IMR 8208 XBR load is a virtual clone on the excellent BHA mag-length 5.56MM 77GR. SMK AMU load. For accuracy out to 600yds. or so, I would go with an IMR 8208 XBR load over the TAC load because of the thermal stability & accuracy. IMO, TAC is best used for high MV but it can be accurate. And also as mentioned above, the 77GR. SMK over MAX 5.56MM NATO pressure H4895 is capable of 0.5 MOA or better in my rifle in trigger-pull conditions. But H4895 does not throw nearly as consistently as IMR 8208 XBR and I get just a bit better ES/SD with the IMR 8208 XBR load over H4895. Almost a decade ago,  I had a great 77GR. SMK over MAX 5.56MM NATO pressure Varget load (Aardvark's crunch Varget load) I used out of a 24" varmint AR but this 18" barrel did not shoot it well at all. .02

77GR. SMK over MAX 5.56MM NATO pressure TAC in #41 primer new LC brass at 2.255" COAL fired from 1x7.7 SS Krieger/ CLE 5.56MM MATCH chamber with M4 can attached: approx. MV: 2814 FPS with SD of approx. 13 FPS.




This 77GR. SMK over MAX 5.56MM NATO pressure IMR 8208 XBR load group was fired off a not-too-steady wooden bench with quite a bit of lateral play in it. It has a bit more accuracy in it than I could demonstrate given the shaky bench.
Link Posted: 1/9/2022 4:46:37 PM EDT
[#20]
Did anyone ever find a good load with TAC and the 75gr Hornady bullet?

I tried a load with my X95 and had pressure signs at 24gr so I stopped. Only ran through four different powder weights before that so not much data.
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