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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/12/2020 12:54:56 PM EDT
I had my mind set on acquiring a Tier 1 308 for a while now. I had narrowed it down to:
1) DD5V3 2) Larue (PredatOBR or UU) 3) SR-25 Preference was the DD as I have several and I could have made do with just the upper, which was for sale at about $1400. All of a sudden those uppers have disappeared. Even the rifles which were at $2k street value are scarce and selling at $2.4k if you can find them. Next budget conscious choice would be the Larue UU kit, however I want this setup to be refined, and designed as a system, which is why I am leaning towards PredatOBR or SR-25. Question: For any of you folks who have shot both the DD5V3 vs. a PredatOBR or SR-25, could you perhaps speak to what the additional $2k buys you in a relative sense? Thanks in advance. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 5:16:21 PM EDT
[#1]
Haven't shot the DD or LT. But have an SR25 ACC and LMT MWS.
I've shot M110's, and have had a couple custom 308 AR's Here is what I would say. The SR25 ACC/APCis the most refined, reliable, combat proven 308 gas gun on the planet. Is it 2000 dollars better than my MWS, I don't think so, it handles nicer, shoots a little smoother. You may be able to find something smoother or something that handles better but getting both the traits in an incredibly reliable package is what makes the SR25 special. If you have the funds for an SR25, it's an awesome rifle. But honestly I would have no issues running a LMT, DD or Barrett with a quality optic vs the SR25 with no optic |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/12/2020 5:33:07 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m4hk33: Haven't shot the DD or LT. But have an SR25 ACC and LMT MWS. I've shot M110's, and have had a couple custom 308 AR's Here is what I would say. The SR25 ACC/APCis the most refined, reliable, combat proven 308 gas gun on the planet. Is it 2000 dollars better than my MWS, I don't think so, it handles nicer, shoots a little smoother. You may be able to find something smoother or something that handles better but getting both the traits in an incredibly reliable package is what makes the SR25 special. If you have the funds for an SR25, it's an awesome rifle. But honestly I would have no issues running a LMT, DD or Barrett with a quality optic vs the SR25 with no optic Thanks. I don't really have KAC kind of money. I was going to go the credit card route, under the excuse of buy once cry once. Those DD uppers are impossible to find right now, otherwise I would have already gotten. But what I was really looking for is opinion on the difference in performance normalized by cost, which you are seemed to saying is perhaps debatable. LMT is also an option that comes up quite a bit. However I am trying to stay on the 8-9 lbs side with a 16''. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 5:45:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: m4hk33]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Browny00: Thanks. I don't really have KAC kind of money. I was going to go the credit card route, under the excuse of buy once cry once. Those DD uppers are impossible to find right now, otherwise I would have already gotten. But what I was really looking for is opinion on the difference in performance normalized by cost, which you are seemed to saying is perhaps debatable. LMT is also an option that comes up quite a bit. However I am trying to stay on the 8-9 lbs side with a 16''. FWIW Mloc MWS with LW barrel is around 8.7lbs The barrett rec 10 is listed at 8.3lbs. They are also in stock over at eurooptic.  |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/12/2020 6:19:22 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m4hk33: FWIW Mloc MWS with LW barrel is around 8.7lbs The barrett rec 10 is listed at 8.3lbs. They are also in stock over at eurooptic. https://i.ibb.co/kVLbK34/20191102-145439.jpg I tried a Defender not too long ago, and it felt significantly heavier than my 6.5 20'' DD which has heavier optic. That's why I wrote it off. If it is 8-9 lbs I would definitely consider as I have heard that it's the best balance between price and quality. Impressive set-up, the Barret looks serious. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 6:43:19 PM EDT
[#5]
This thread interests me, since I have a stack of gun money burning a hole in the safe's shelf, and I still have a few more to sell.
However, I did buy a Bergara last Friday. It would be difficult for any gas gun to out shoot it, yet, I would like to have one that does. Smooth and refined isn't what I seek, I want a gas gun that is equally easy to make sub MOA groups as a bolt gun. Is that possible? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/12/2020 8:00:10 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wildearp: This thread interests me, since I have a stack of gun money burning a hole in the safe's shelf, and I still have a few more to sell. However, I did buy a Bergara last Friday. It would be difficult for any gas gun to out shoot it, yet, I would like to have one that does. Smooth and refined isn't what I seek, I want a gas gun that is equally easy to make sub MOA groups as a bolt gun. Is that possible? The 6.5 DD 20'' I have will do that all day, albeit not in my hands. Recoil is on par with a 5.56, which is why it is my preferred long range. I was looking for 308 that was close to docile, but that may be too much to dream for in my budget. By all accounts for people in your situation (cash burning a hole) KAC is the way to go. |
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Posted: 6/13/2020 8:03:36 AM EDT
[#7]
Right now there's a pretty good run on guns so that's probably why it appears the uppers have disappeared.
I personally don't think DD is on the same level ask LT or KAC but I've only fondled them and never shot a heavy. For the money I don't think you can go wrong with the LT ultimate upper kit, that's a steal of a deal. I'm considering getting one just to get a 6.5 upper...but then I'd probably just buy the lower too  |
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Posted: 6/13/2020 8:04:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: sea2summit]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wildearp: This thread interests me, since I have a stack of gun money burning a hole in the safe's shelf, and I still have a few more to sell. However, I did buy a Bergara last Friday. It would be difficult for any gas gun to out shoot it, yet, I would like to have one that does. Smooth and refined isn't what I seek, I want a gas gun that is equally easy to make sub MOA groups as a bolt gun. Is that possible? Yes. LaRue will, KAC, Wilson, GAP. Gas guns are a lot harder to shoot and I think that is a lot of folks problems when trying to get them to group well. However the best gas gun will probably not outshoot the best bolt gun with the best reloads. On the other hand the 1.04 mile prairie dog longest shot record is currently held by a gas gun.  Attached File Attached File |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 6/13/2020 11:19:14 AM EDT
[#9]
you mispelled 6.5 cm.... you wrote 308
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Posted: 6/13/2020 12:43:56 PM EDT
[#10]
I have two of the UU’s, one in 7.62 and the other in 6.5. Both will shoot sub MOA with the right ammo and shooter. Quality and function is excellent.
I can’t compare them to the KAC or LMT, as I don’t have those in large frame formats. FWIW |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/13/2020 5:57:01 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sea2summit: Right now there's a pretty good run on guns so that's probably why it appears the uppers have disappeared. I personally don't think DD is on the same level ask LT or KAC but I've only fondled them and never shot a heavy. For the money I don't think you can go wrong with the LT ultimate upper kit, that's a steal of a deal. I'm considering getting one just to get a 6.5 upper...but then I'd probably just buy the lower too Initially the gun run was all sub $1k. All the Glocks disappeared, as well as decent sub 1k AR15 and shotguns. Now it seems as if though mid to upper level stuff is flying off the shelf. With November looming, I am worried I made a mistake by not buying when they were $1300. I can perhaps agree with DD, not being in the same tier as KAC or LT. It's less than half the price of KAC, and 40% cheaper than LT. However they make a good rifle. I have never had an issue with my 6.5 and I had an experienced shooter hit 0.9-1.04 consistently. I myself am a 1-2 MOA shooter at best, however the gentle recoil really took me by surprise. I know that I am getting more for my money with LT or KAC, but given my skill is it worth the extra $2k? The DD fit and finish is great. Customer service, is also great. If you do ever get to shoot one, I would love to hear your relative thoughts. Yet to meet anyone who owns KAC/LT as well as DD. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/13/2020 6:04:37 PM EDT
[#12]
Looks like Larue UU it is. DD uppers in 308 are nowhere to be found. Anybody have any idea when FDE or UDE will be back? Should I wait or just get the black kit. Recommendations on lowers? The billet they are offering seems like a fine choice but is an additional $300. I have no reference as to whether that is a good or bad deal. Any idea how they perform suppressed? I heard good things about the DD5V3 adjustable gas block when suppressed.
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Posted: 6/13/2020 6:42:35 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Browny00: Initially the gun run was all sub $1k. All the Glocks disappeared, as well as decent sub 1k AR15 and shotguns. Now it seems as if though mid to upper level stuff is flying off the shelf. With November looming, I am worried I made a mistake by not buying when they were $1300. I can perhaps agree with DD, not being in the same tier as KAC or LT. It's less than half the price of KAC, and 40% cheaper than LT. However they make a good rifle. I have never had an issue with my 6.5 and I had an experienced shooter hit 0.9-1.04 consistently. I myself am a 1-2 MOA shooter at best, however the gentle recoil really took me by surprise. I know that I am getting more for my money with LT or KAC, but given my skill is it worth the extra $2k? The DD fit and finish is great. Customer service, is also great. If you do ever get to shoot one, I would love to hear your relative thoughts. Yet to meet anyone who owns KAC/LT as well as DD. I’d gladly shoot one if someone wants to sponsor me for my opinion |
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Posted: 6/13/2020 6:45:55 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Browny00: Looks like Larue UU it is. DD uppers in 308 are nowhere to be found. Anybody have any idea when FDE or UDE will be back? Should I wait or just get the black kit. Recommendations on lowers? The billet they are offering seems like a fine choice but is an additional $300. I have no reference as to whether that is a good or bad deal. Any idea how they perform suppressed? I heard good things about the DD5V3 adjustable gas block when suppressed. I think that’s the best value right now. AR-10 lowers aren’t cheap like 15s, there’s a lot more aluminum tied up in them. I’d look at an aero lower if not LT or other quality lower not going to be $300 but probably not less than $200 unless you get a sale. What suppressor? With the UU you have the option of the $400 add on for the tranquilo. It’s heavy but very repeatable and very accurate (groups above were shot with one) for $400 you won’t beat it. Otherwise yeah, adjustable gas block is a good idea IMHO. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/13/2020 7:16:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sea2summit: I think that’s the best value right now. AR-10 lowers aren’t cheap like 15s, there’s a lot more aluminum tied up in them. I’d look at an aero lower if not LT or other quality lower not going to be $300 but probably not less than $200 unless you get a sale. What suppressor? With the UU you have the option of the $400 add on for the tranquilo. It’s heavy but very repeatable and very accurate (groups above were shot with one) for $400 you won’t beat it. Otherwise yeah, adjustable gas block is a good idea IMHO. I don't have a particular suppressor in mind. In fact that would have been contingent upon the 308 I buy. If I were to get the DD upper, I would have gotten the Wave to go with it. It's expensive, but it's designed around their rifles. I have a DD5V5 and DDM4V11-pro that could have benefited from it. I'm sure they will pair with other brands just fine as well. With a Larue UU, I would most likely get the one that comes with it. It is substantially cheaper, though I have zero information about the reliability. I have heard that Wave performs near flawlessly with adjustable gas block DD as far as cycling goes, though no first hand experience. |
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Posted: 6/14/2020 11:17:03 AM EDT
[#16]
The LaRue suppressor is good to go. Gas blow back is not an issue and It is very accurate with no to minimal POI shift. This is a really good value.
The LaRue lowers are very nice; however, there is nothing special about them. I purchased them simply to have a complete rifle; however, I don’t notice anything better about them vs the MEGA’s that I have. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2020 11:40:36 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By simplefolk: The LaRue suppressor is good to go. Gas blow back is not an issue and It is very accurate with no to minimal POI shift. This is a really good value. The LaRue lowers are very nice; however, there is nothing special about them. I purchased them simply to have a complete rifle; however, I don’t notice anything better about them vs the MEGA’s that I have. Good to hear. UU it is then. I really want the FDE or UDE though, otherwise I'd have already ordered. May be I'll give it a couple of weeks, see if they come back in stock. I am new here, but I've heard a representative of Larue Tactical frequents this forum quite a bit. Hopefully they can weigh-in if it catches their attention? |
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Posted: 6/14/2020 12:01:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: sea2summit]
[#18]
There was a 6.5 FDE on EE last night in 6.5. Probably gone as the price was stellar.
ETA no one has said they’ll take it. Maybe there’s a chance Clicky thing
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2020 12:05:35 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sea2summit: There was a 6.5 FDE on EE last night in 6.5. Probably gone as the price was stellar. Looking for a 308. I already have a 6.5 rifle. That ammo is expensive :/ 7.62 rounds are relatively cheaper. And my plan is to plink quite a bit. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2020 12:08:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Browny00]
[#20]
Actually I probably could buy this and replace the barrel. Though I am not sure if the handguard will work with a 16'' barrel. Time to do some more research.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/18/2020 10:20:55 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sea2summit: Yes. LaRue will, KAC, Wilson, GAP. Gas guns are a lot harder to shoot and I think that is a lot of folks problems when trying to get them to group well. However the best gas gun will probably not outshoot the best bolt gun with the best reloads. On the other hand the 1.04 mile prairie dog longest shot record is currently held by a gas gun. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/326526/161FE39B-756F-42CA-BB1B-87425FBEA25A_jpe-1459708.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/326526/B4333C6B-2644-4AB2-AD0D-3222350B8945_jpe-1459711.JPG I think I found something that I am ready to move on. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/871333301 It is a PredatOBR, from 2014. Currently running at $2.6k. Looks clean, and guy says only has 50 rounds through it. Only thing is, that it is a 14.5'' barrel with the brake pinned and welded. Any issues with the shorter barrel as far as accuracy or repeatability is concerned that you would know of? I was originally planning on going with a 16'', but to me weight is a concern so the shorter the better. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/18/2020 10:21:57 AM EDT
[#22]
Thoughts on: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/871333301
?? |
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Posted: 6/18/2020 1:28:16 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By browny000: I think I found something that I am ready to move on. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/871333301 It is a PredatOBR, from 2014. Currently running at $2.6k. Looks clean, and guy says only has 50 rounds through it. Only thing is, that it is a 14.5'' barrel with the brake pinned and welded. Any issues with the shorter barrel as far as accuracy or repeatability is concerned that you would know of? I was originally planning on going with a 16'', but to me weight is a concern so the shorter the better. I have a 16" I might be willing to trade for a 14.5 if it's truly only got 50 rounds through it. How's the test target look? It's going to shoot just as well, velocity will be slightly less. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/18/2020 1:40:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sea2summit: I have a 16" I might be willing to trade for a 14.5 if it's truly only got 50 rounds through it. How's the test target look? It's going to shoot just as well, velocity will be slightly less. I will ask him for a pic. Though given the age I am not sure he would have retained it. Once I have acquired it, I'll reach back out. That is of course if the auction doesn't reach crazy levels. |
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Posted: 6/18/2020 2:14:41 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Browny00: I will ask him for a pic. Though given the age I am not sure he would have retained it. Once I have acquired it, I'll reach back out. That is of course if the auction doesn't reach crazy levels. The price of second hand LTs fell through the floor when UUs came out. It used to be you could expect to pay over retail, now if you're less than 200 below retail on the heavies you're probably over paying. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/18/2020 2:23:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sea2summit: The price of second hand LTs fell through the floor when UUs came out. It used to be you could expect to pay over retail, now if you're less than 200 below retail on the heavies you're probably over paying. I am glad you mentioned, I am hoping to get it for around $2700-$2800, all said and done. Retail seems to be around $3300 on a brand new one. Even with the UU kit, these rifles are hard to find used, these days. Most of the stuff I run into is 6.5 Creedmoor. |
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Posted: 6/18/2020 2:34:10 PM EDT
[#27]
FWIW, I have a friend who owned a piece of property with a 2500 yard range just out his front door. He bought an SR25 and a Swarovski range finder. After about a year and a half he sold them. When I asked why, he said it got boring. He said with the laser range finder, he could hit just about anything he shot at within reasonable distance, and it just wasn't as challenging as with other rifles. I though that was very high praise for the system.
Eventually, he went to shooting a Sharps single shot black powder cartridge rifle with iron sights. He put a buffalo gong out at about 1200 yards and said that was challenging to hit. He said he even had to put a nick on each case rim with a file so it would always be oriented the same way in the chamber. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/18/2020 2:50:41 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Genin: FWIW, I have a friend who owned a piece of property with a 2500 yard range just out his front door. He bought an SR25 and a Swarovski range finder. After about a year and a half he sold them. When I asked why, he said it got boring. He said with the laser range finder, he could hit just about anything he shot at within reasonable distance, and it just wasn't as challenging as with other rifles. I though that was very high praise for the system. Eventually, he went to shooting a Sharps single shot black powder cartridge rifle with iron sights. He put a buffalo gong out at about 1200 yards and said that was challenging to hit. He said he even had to put a nick on each case rim with a file so it would always be oriented the same way in the chamber. No denying the SR25. By all means the best that's out there. But unlike most folk here I am not a man of resources, and this is a guilty pleasure. I can convince myself to $2-$2.5k but at $4.5k I'd be struggling. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/20/2020 4:04:16 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sea2summit: The price of second hand LTs fell through the floor when UUs came out. It used to be you could expect to pay over retail, now if you're less than 200 below retail on the heavies you're probably over paying. That got away from me pretty fast. It sold for $3k, which after factoring the credit card fee (no other form of payment) and shipping was a little under retail for brand new. I guess they do hold their value pretty well. My search continues. I am now seriously considering the UU kit, and going with cerakote since their FDE is on indefinite hold. |
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Posted: 6/25/2020 4:05:19 PM EDT
[#30]
UU kit is a good deal for sure
I would also be looking at the Seekins SP10. They are very accurate s well |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/31/2020 1:47:50 PM EDT
[#31]
Finally settled on Larue. Not an UU kit. Thanks for all your feedback.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/Equipment-Exchange/WTS-A-few-nice-AR10-factory-Rifles-MandP-10-added/120-1977955/ |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 7/31/2020 10:17:36 PM EDT
[#32]
Congratulations on finding a LT. I picked up a LT OBR earlier this year. I was pleased with mine.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/31/2020 10:41:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Browny00]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Grumpy5: Congratulations on finding a LT. I picked up a LT OBR earlier this year. I was pleased with mine. Thanks. Now the *shorter* wait begins. |
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