I currently do not have a chronograph, so bear with me.

I jumped on the arf-train and got a bergara b14-hmr and love it...

Shooting yesterday, trying to gather some good dope, I started playing with MV figured in strelok. Ended up working down to 2450fps MV to match my hits. This seems really slow, although my rifle does of course have a 20" barrel.

Some relevant info...
900' ASL
30.02inhg
54%RH
85*f ambient temperature
Wind coming from -135* averaging 8mph.
Shooting 175gr SMK FGMM lot #Q21E180
Ammo kept in shade, fired case left in chamber while data was written or calculator used. Then I'd chamber before my next shot.
Group size was approximately 1moa at 200 and 500

Rifle is wearing a NF base with leupold mk4 medium rings and a vortex viper pst gen 2 ffp 3-15x44 (30mm tube). Sight height appears to be 2".
200yd zero (elevation zero stop used).

Impacts were 6.5moa low at 400 and 10.5moa low at 500. I clicked 1.75moa at 400 for wind, and 2.25 at 500.

Am I over thinking it (as new [to precision] shooters do)? Is this abnormally slow for this load (again 2450 for strelok to match actual)?

Any which way, this rifle is great so far, and it's quite the pussy cat with the sico brake and really getting on the bipod (I went harris S type with pod-loc). In the bergara thread I mentioned a feed problem around the 8th round, but it seems I wasn't smacking the mags hard enough to get the rounds seated all the way back.

Somewhere around 2500 fps would be my guess from a 20" barrel.

FGMM loses around 21 fps per inch..... going from 26" to 20".  I got right at 2600fps with FGMM 175 out of my 26" PSS.  So 6 x 21 = 126 which puts an estimate at 2474 fps.

One thing I have learned - every barrel is different, and the same ammo will produce different velocities from different barrels.  I'd say you are "in range" but you need more data points.

I averaged 2508fps, SD 5.22, ES 14 from a 20" Savage

When I plug all your data in JM ballistics - I get 2510 fps.

https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi

Thanks guys. Next time I take her out I'm going to get some paper groups at 100 to test some verious loads and set up steel at probably 3, 5 and 700.

The hardest part of the land I get to shoot on is that it's grass, so it's either a hit or no impact, no idea. This really blows (hehe) when the wind decides to change downrange.

Once I plug in some data from 100, 300, and 700 I should be very well able to reverse engineer a MV, no?

Does it hurt (too much?) that strelok (yes I'm being cheap until I get a nice kestrel) is only using the G1 BC?

My reading says it's not too important to use G7 until after 800, what are your experiences?

With Federal GMM 175 I’m getting 2452 out of my KAC ACC 16” barrel. That is a 20 shot string, over my Magnetospeed, so I’m pretty comfortable with that number. It matches with my CDM from Applied Ballistics out to 1000yds.

Federal GMM 175 grain Chrono's around 2530 from my 20 inch R-25 gas gun.  Surprisingly Federal Premium Gold Metal 185's chrono at 2550 from the same rifle on the same day, slightly better accuracy for me.  BC is much better also.  Excluding PSA deals where the 175 is around $16 a box, normally they are near the same price.  If I was buying factory loads to feed that rifle and shoot long range, I'd go with the 185 Jug's.

Midway link just as an example

^^^^^^YES!!! I too prefer the 185 Juggernauts. I get 2468 from them, and the hits at 1000 are easier. This was proven a couple weeks ago. Buddy and I were shooting at a steel plate roughly 18”X 30 inches. So, approx 1.8moa wise at 1K. The Federal GMM 175gr were kind of getting pushed around more in the wind, so hits were a little sporadic. I LITERALLY changed nothing but the mag with ammo, and bang...... clang, bang.......clang. One after another. Went like 4-5 or 5-5 at 1000 with the Berger’s. I order them by the 200. When I let myself run out (dang it), I buy the GMM 175’s locally. The Berger’s really bring the 16” .308 to life!

Also, if you’re not chronoing your ammo, you’re just throwing money and bullets to waste. Honestly, without solid data, you’re guessing. I was ABSOLUTELY in your shoes. I didn’t get my own Magnetospeed until recently. It is a game changer. ALSO....and this is important, get a good ballistic app. I personally very highly recommend Applied Ballistics. They use the latest B.C.’s, and they reshoot often and check the info. It’s Lutz, who LITERALLY wrote the book on Ballistics. And, yes, the difference between G1 and G7 is HUGE. It gets more so as the distance increases. Also, I’m going to tell you what I learned from my shooting partner: G1 and G7 are still behind the CDM’s on Applied Ballistics. Those Custom Drag Models are only $1.99 each, less than the cost of 2  premium rounds. The difference is HUGE. Like first round hit at 1000 huge. The CDM are tested, and retested, and they are  better than any G1-G7.  The info that is available now to shooters in INSANE. No reason not to use it. By the time we buy a decent rifle at $600, glass at $1000, a bipod, rear bag, a Kestral, a ballistic app, etc. we’re in well over $2K, and that BARGAIN BASEMENT, many folks are into glass more than that. My point is, why go cheap on a piece of gear that will absolutely  guarantee to improve your hit percentages?  Get a chrono, or access to one, buy Applied Ballistics, and buy a couple CDM’s for the ammo you shoot. I promise it will be the best shooting $$ you’ll spend.

OP, how many rounds on the barrel? New barrels generally pick up some speed from new until they get quite a bit of rounds on them, then slowly slow down as they wear over thousands of rounds....

That is probably about right.  I am seeing 2325 fps out of my 16".  I am loading 185grn bergers moving 2375fps though.

Except the $16.99 a box Palmetto had the 185s for on black Friday.

I may have bought all but a few boxes.

Lol, well I missed that one.  My rifle really likes them, enjoy, and let us know how they work for you.

Haven't got out to really sit behind the rifle since the op. Been busy with other shooting activities and deer season. It will probably be another 2 months before I do another 308 day (e.g. 2 weeks ago was tactical shotgun, last week pistol, next week sporting shotgun...)

I've done some 100yd load tests, which consisted of just shooting some groups and noting the group size. I'd shoot a control group of 175gr fgmm to verify POI and that nothing was screwed up, then shoot the testers. Went through a bunch of various loads (databook is 2 time zones away). Generally they'd group as expected for their price/intent.

One outlier for me was the 165gr SGK fiocchi load. Good groups and priced very well for a hunter to get real world dope.

Have yet to get the 185gr Bergers downrange. I have high expectations for them.

Snowrider, this barrel has about 200rds through it and has never gotten hotter than a 10rd/5min string.

ETA: I did stock up on the 175s. Have a good bit of it, sadly 2 different lot numbers but I did check one box from the second lot and I couldnt discern a POI shift or group size that couldn't be attributed to the nut behind the trigger.

My Tikka shoots them very well! Its like a different caliber when comparing to the 168 or 175 SMKs. I'd like to try some of the Hornady Superformance 168g. I have never had luck with it before though, good velocity but mediocre accuracy.

IIRC I got less than stellar results from the Hornady loads. They weren't bad, but they just didn't do it. This bergra barrel just seems to love Sierra bullets.

The Black line did the best for me IIRC.

When I get home this weekend I'll pull out the databook.

2500 is in the ballpark.  MV and and good ballistics info is critical to long range shooting.

Yes, start around 2500-2525 and use G1.  You will be close.

Yes, I'm aware I need a chrono... it just so happens that I tend to spend my money on other fun stuff. It's on the long list. Daddy needs a really nice ar15 (in the ball park of $3k with optic and suppressor) and probably a g34.4 MOS because reasons before that.

I'm happy with my very informal shooting for now.

Is it really wasted bullets if you're logging the data well?

Without a chronograph, how accurate is the data you're logging?

Well, if I have weather data, and a good zero then I can back-wards compute it using real world drops, no?

It can also be field figured with some kentucky windage given enough DOPE.

If I know that my bullet arc is +2 moa at 100, 0 at 200, -2 at 300, -3.5 at 400, etc... how is that not good data?

Obviously not conducive to making first round headshots at extended range, but so long as I know where I held and the group size is on par with the distance, then I know I'm logging good data.

It does place a lot of trust in the ammo maker/loader, and your weather data.

Here's some group sizes. Like I said, ammo testing is fairly informal so I didn't log much besides group size.

PPU 155gr, 1.75moa, 100yds
Hornady black 168gr amax, 1.25moa, 100yds. +3min @100, +1min @200, -2min at 300. From rough 200yd zero with the PPU.
Hornady match 178gr, 1.75moa, 100yds. +2.5min at 100.
Fiocchi match 175gr SMK, <1moa, 100yds. +2.5min at 100.
FGMM 175gr SMK, 1moa, 100yds.
IMI 168gr (smk?), 1.25moa, 100yds, +2min at 100.
IMI 175gr, 1.5moa, 100yds. +2min at 100.

FGMM 175, 200yds. Zero elevation, 1.5min Left click for wind. 6mph from 7:30.
400yds, 6.5min Up, 1.75min left (total 3.25)
500yds 10.5min Up, 2.25min left (total 3.75)
Distance shots are all on steel.

Last time I was out, we had zero wind at the time (cigarette smoke straight up). Adjusted the zero stop on windage to read 0/0. Confirmed when wind picked up to about 5mph and hit center at 200 with 1.5min dialed.

I still have to test:
PPU 168gr
Rem 168 and 175gr SMK
Magtech 168gr
PMC xtac match 168gr SMK
And FGMM 185gr Berger

Next time I'll setup paper at 200 if the wind isn't crazy. Probably put the 1/3 silhouettes at 3 and 400, and the 80% silhouettes at 500 and 600.

The difficult part being reading the wind across a cleared field when the firing position is in kind of a wind block from trees and the barns. The nearest downrange vegetation is going to be bare trees at around 1kyds, and some other bare trees about 300yds left and right of the bullet path. So far they seem to only move with the strongest winds. So we drive down range and see what the wind is doing (talk on cell phone) to try and get the relation between the two different values. The ground should be frozen/mud enough to cause dirt splashes with a miss, now that the grass/weeds have died for the winter.

For long range shooting Eagle Eye 308 175gr has been the go to for me. Extremely accurate ammo with low sd's. It has a much higher velocity and thus a much flatter trajectory. In my 20" AR10 it runs about 2,625 fps and about 2,750 fps in my Savage 10BA (it's the old original metal BA not the new stealth). I have not shot FGM in awhile but recall it being 2600's in my 10BA a few years ago. The EE in my 10BA gets me to 1k in the low to mid 9 mil range depending on atmospherics of where I am shooting.

Neat, but $1.65/rd isn't really within my budget. At that rate I'll be reloading. The wife and I have moved some stuff around the house and I think in around 6 months I will start working on a reloading setup.

Which should coincide with a kestrel, chrono of some kind, and having a good bit of once fired 308 brass.

I'll have to get a progressive or something faster (in addition to the single stage for precision loads) as well to tackle the mountain of 5.56 and 9mm brass I have laying around as well.

I hear you. If you get into reloading check out a Forster press for making match ammo. It's a very solid press. I have a weatherflow meter that's worked well for atmospherics, syncs with abm in my phone and at like 80ish bucks its a good price. Magnetospeed works well but I love my labradar. Super quick setup as long as you remember to charge the battery pack every once in awhile :)

Eagle Eye Ammo isn't the cheapest chow out there. It is very high quality match ammo though. I pulled 5 apart one time and all the charges were exactly 45.2 grains on my charge master scale (no idea what powder it is). It's shot well for me and gives consistent single digits sd's with velocities similar to my varget hand loads. The brass is supposed to be good for reloading but I haven't reloaded enough to say one way or another. I figured I couldn't hand load much better than what the Eagle Eye measured/shot and there is a lot of prep work for good match reloads so I have stuck with their factory chow.

The slow speed and variable sd's from lot to lot with fgm were the deal breakers for me. Fgm generally grouped well at 100 yds for me (when I did my part). I'd get one fgm lot that would chrono in single digits and the next would be sd's in the high teens making it hard to hold elevation at distance.

I'll have to look more into the weather meter. I thought kestrel was the gold standard (it might be), but it's definitely gold priced. For $80 I could get that and pick up a labradar, oehler or magnetospeed on the same order.

Did some shooting yesterday. Got my drops dialed in fairly well out to 600. Wind was varying quite a bit so it made for quite a few misses.

Shot some other flavors of match. Magtech wasn't bad, good performance/price, about 1.5moa. Remington 175smk held 1.75moa and worst of all was the fgmm 185 berger. They shot a pitiful 2moa. Threw some PPU 180gr SP downrange for a 2.25moa group.

This barrel seems to like 175gr or bust.

When I start loading, I'll try copying FGMM at first using my own once fired brass. I think I should easily be able to beat it or at least match it for solid 1moa performance. It seems like I don't even have to try and it it throws a neat pattern.

My 21.5" Krieger barrel shoots FGMM at 2580 fps. Just another data point. YMMV

Long term update.

Got a kestrel and magnetospeed.

Got some good velocity numbers, and good info plugged into the kestrel (applied ballistics).

IIRC (data not on me), I got 2540 in the zeroing conditions. The other day I averaged 2529 as a control during load development.

After testing my loads I took some pot shots at a rock out in the field. Guessed 1000yds. 1st shot, about 12mins high, 6min left (bad wind). Dialed down a bit, held for some wind, miss. Only a couple minutes off each way. Made corrections, and HIT. Checked scope settings, dialed range back in kestrel until it matched. Kestrel says 843yds to match that drop (29.19moa). Drove out in the field to look at the rock. Smack dab center hit, about the size of a head. Used the LRF back to the other truck. Brother said 844yds (I may have got a little hard). I don't believe him, so he hands me the LRF and I get 843 (we are looking at a pickup truck quartering...)

It all finally came together.

Also my handloads (need to work up more) were grouping around .6-.75moa 5 shot groups. FGMM usually holds 1moa until about shot 7, and throws the last 3 into 1.25.

I'm a happy shooter.

What's your recipe?

I can't afford new, but can roll my own on the 185 berger.

I ran some 185 berger vld-h at 2.835 OAL up to 39gr ARCOMP. I'd have to test more, think I might be able to get up to 40gr. Velocity wasn't too bad. I don't have my notebook to check. 2.835 is about max I can fit in my aics pmags. I'd be worried about pressure trying to cram that bullet any further into the case.

They shot better than the FGMM juggernaut, but I think this barrel just doesn't like 185gr.