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MS, USA
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Posted: 3/30/2021 11:09:20 PM EDT
I originally posted in ammunition but not getting any data from shooters. Anyone else here shoot bulk ammo in the bolt action rifles that prove unreliable, non detonation of primers, I am having issues with both of my Ruger American in .556 NATO.
Rifles were made two years apart and I really haven't shot bulk ball practice ammo in them. Shoots all of the match, hunting and self defense rounds perfectly. Tried many brands and get way too many misfires. I understand military ammunition have harder primers but I have the same issues with .223 Rem. ammo. I purchased Browning .223 Rem. at Academy and usually get 8 out of 20 go click. Anyone have primer issues with bulk ammo? Thank you for any information. |
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Posted: 3/30/2021 11:26:30 PM EDT
[#1]
I have a RPR and a American ranch in 5.56. They have both been 100% with everything I've put through them.
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Posted: 3/30/2021 11:51:21 PM EDT
[#2]
I know this was an issue with the Ruger American in 300BLK, could very well be a problem with those cambered in .223 as well.
Buddy of mine bought a Ruger American ranch in 300BLK and had all kinds of issues with misfires. Ruger said it was an ammo issue... but finally took it in under warranty. It came back functioning fine, but buddy never got an answer to the cause. This was about 2016-2017 |
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Posted: 3/31/2021 12:18:47 AM EDT
[#3]
buddy of mine has a ruger American in 223 and 7.62x39 as he has lots of that ammo. mostly steel case. no issues yet but I dont think hes shot them that much. reliability usually isn't a bolt gun topic. I will say I bought a nice tikka and tricked it out to shoot cheap ammo semi accurately at short range. that idea has worked out poorly. the gun shoots ok with good stuff but I shoots cheap ammo worse than my AR's do. like 4+ moa.
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Posted: 3/31/2021 7:46:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: forensicgun]
[#4]
I dont own the specific rifle you are talking about but I do run a couple of 223 bolt guns. When I teach classes, my students will often start with the 223 rifles and they use generic factory ammo. Both rifles have run 100% on Fed, Rem, Win, and PMC ammo. By any chance do you have an aftermarket FP spring or do you use any kind of lubricant or grease on the FP assembly?
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MS, USA
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Posted: 3/31/2021 8:54:37 AM EDT
[#5]
Both guns are factory. No changes. My gunsmith put a heavier spring on the firing pin, cleaned the channel also. Still going click on the bulk ammo. Cratering primer strikes on all rounds that go bang. Switched to PMC X-TAC never had a misfire. The gun is chambered in .556 NATO. I was hoping it would shoot all military grade ammunition reliably.
I would find it remote that I bought the guns almost two years apart and ended up with two with issues but the way things have been going..... Thank you guys for replies ... Browning .223 Winchester. 556 M193 Winchester. 556 M855 Tula brass max .223 Has gone click. The Browning 8 out of 20 on average. |
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Posted: 3/31/2021 9:38:57 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MJ11B4P: I know this was an issue with the Ruger American in 300BLK, could very well be a problem with those cambered in .223 as well. Buddy of mine bought a Ruger American ranch in 300BLK and had all kinds of issues with misfires. Ruger said it was an ammo issue... but finally took it in under warranty. It came back functioning fine, but buddy never got an answer to the cause. This was about 2016-2017 My banker had the same issue and we bought our rifles months apart both .300BO. He sent his back through the dealer and worked fine after that. They had a bolt shroud in the box. So I assumed it was the problem. |
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Posted: 3/31/2021 1:27:56 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HOGHUNTERS: Both guns are factory. No changes. My gunsmith put a heavier spring on the firing pin, cleaned the channel also. Still going click on the bulk ammo. Cratering primer strikes on all rounds that go bang. Switched to PMC X-TAC never had a misfire. The gun is chambered in .556 NATO. I was hoping it would shoot all military grade ammunition reliably. I would find it remote that I bought the guns almost two years apart and ended up with two with issues but the way things have been going..... Thank you guys for replies ... Browning .223 Winchester. 556 M193 Winchester. 556 M855 Tula brass max .223 Has gone click. The Browning 8 out of 20 on average. What does the primer strike look like? If it's a normal looking indentation I say it's an ammo issue, more specifically a primer issue. If the primer strike is light you either have excessive headspace (very bad) or there is crud in the firing pin channel that is blocking the firing pin from full protrusion. The firing pin itself may have been machined improperly or the interior channel inside the bolt not drilled deeply enough. Fixing the bolt or firing pin is a lot simpler than fixing headspace. |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 3/31/2021 7:54:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HOGHUNTERS]
[#8]
My gunsmith reshaped the firing pin today and I shot the Browning .223 ammo today. 20 rounds, 2 misfires....much better than eight out of 20.
The primer strikes are deep and uniform on all rounds that fired on all brands. Taking him my other bolt tomorrow and let him do the same for it and see what happens.... Also checked the headspacing, it was good to go. |
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Posted: 4/1/2021 11:47:06 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HOGHUNTERS: My gunsmith reshaped the firing pin today and I shot the Browning .223 ammo today. 20 rounds, 2 misfires....much better than eight out of 20. The primer strikes are deep and uniform on all rounds that fired on all brands. Taking him my other bolt tomorrow and let him do the same for it and see what happens.... Also checked the headspacing, it was good to go. You have two different bolts for one bolt action rifle? I think that may be your problem. Both bolts will have to be checked for headspace, manufacturing tolerances and final headspace are established using the original bolt that came with the rifle. Any other bolt is a roll of the dice. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/1/2021 12:11:34 PM EDT
[#10]
My T/C Compass in 223 fires all 5.56 I have tried, which is a lot of different types.
My T/C Compass in 308 does doe a goo job in lighting primers on surplus 7.62. |
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Posted: 4/1/2021 1:19:21 PM EDT
[#11]
My savage 110 eats everything it gets fed
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/1/2021 3:37:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Reliably goes bang, not very accurate (2 MOA is my experience with 55gr FMJBT bulk ammo in a rifle that is about half MOA with HPBT handloads).
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MS, USA
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Posted: 4/1/2021 10:19:16 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: You have two different bolts for one bolt action rifle? I think that may be your problem. Both bolts will have to be checked for headspace, manufacturing tolerances and final headspace are established using the original bolt that came with the rifle. Any other bolt is a roll of the dice. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: Originally Posted By HOGHUNTERS: My gunsmith reshaped the firing pin today and I shot the Browning .223 ammo today. 20 rounds, 2 misfires....much better than eight out of 20. The primer strikes are deep and uniform on all rounds that fired on all brands. Taking him my other bolt tomorrow and let him do the same for it and see what happens.... Also checked the headspacing, it was good to go. You have two different bolts for one bolt action rifle? I think that may be your problem. Both bolts will have to be checked for headspace, manufacturing tolerances and final headspace are established using the original bolt that came with the rifle. Any other bolt is a roll of the dice. Sorry, I meant to add, my other bolt from my first RAR in .556. It's going clink on the bulk ammo also. |
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Posted: 4/2/2021 12:08:58 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HOGHUNTERS: Sorry, I meant to add, my other bolt from my first RAR in .556. It's going clink on the bulk ammo also. Different rifle, or are you swapping bolts in one rifle? Bolt gun rifle bolts are receiver specific, they can't be swapped out between rifles without checking headspace on each bolt. |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 4/2/2021 8:23:07 PM EDT
[#15]
II have two identical rifles. I am not swapping bolts, I am taking them to my gunsmith to fix them and test firing them as we make corrections.
What's the correct firing pin protrusion that you guys have for the .556 bolt? |
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Posted: 4/3/2021 12:44:15 AM EDT
[#16]
I shot quite a bit out of my R700 Varmint 223 to get some brass to reload that was shot from that chamber. No issues at all, bulk ammo is trash for accuracy though.
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MS, USA
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Posted: 4/3/2021 7:51:03 AM EDT
[#17]
You just jogged my memory, I have a 700 .223 in the back of a safe I have forgotten about. I'll dig it out and try the Browning ammo in it. If that is 100% then I guess I'll get the Magpul magazine conversion kits for a couple.
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CA, USA
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Posted: 4/3/2021 10:06:36 AM EDT
[#18]
I wonder what it's like to buy ammo.
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Posted: 4/3/2021 11:43:02 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HOGHUNTERS: II have two identical rifles. I am not swapping bolts, I am taking them to my gunsmith to fix them and test firing them as we make corrections. What's the correct firing pin protrusion that you guys have for the .556 bolt? .032" +/- .004" |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 4/5/2021 5:58:24 PM EDT
[#20]
.032 ?
That sounds awfully shallow, that might work for Bench Rest primers but I'll bet it won't reliably pop bulk ammo. I'm up to .047, going to .050, going to put a heavier spring and a spring spacer for my final testing. I hope this makes it pop the bulk primers 100%. |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 7:44:21 PM EDT
[#21]
AR-15 firing protrusion gages are minimum .028" to maximum .036". I would be surprised if this different for any bolt action rifle.
The primers, rifle headspace, ammo headspace and firing pin protrusion are have a tolerance window that are dependent on each other. Rifle headspace when new has a .004" minimum (go-gage) to maximum (no-go) range. Ammo headspace should be no more than .005" clearance in your chamber (whatever that dimension actually is). The firing pin protrusion between .028" and .036" (nominal average of .032") is needed for reliable ignition. The primers need to be struck hard enough to pop without over penetrating. If everything else listed is in spec you should have 100% reliability. |
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