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Posted: 4/25/2023 5:26:35 PM EDT
[#1]
I advise against it. The 3000s are showing their age with EEPROM and display failures, and require Windows XP to program. You'd be better served by a 5000.
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Posted: 4/25/2023 5:55:39 PM EDT
[#2]
For a first HT? My vote is not unless you are familiar with the ASTRO CPS. Its a lousy way to 'learn'. However, once you have the basics playing with commercial stuff is very fun. the 3000 was one of the most hackable radios out there.
If you are dead set on commercial Motorola and only care about 70cm I think I would be looking at a XTS2500 with the full keypad and FPP. Those can be had on ebay for realistic money these days now that APX is the new hotness. |
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Posted: 4/25/2023 6:30:49 PM EDT
[#3]
The 3k doesn't have federal government fpp as an option?
I wouldn't invest too heavily in a 3k. Like they say up thread, those things are old. Buy a 5k if that's what you want. |
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Posted: 4/25/2023 6:55:22 PM EDT
[#4]
^From what I've been able to find researching there is no FPP XTS 3000. Anyone feel free to correct me if that info is wrong.
My gut feeling right now is to just wait to get a XTS 5000 for the time being. There seems to be a lot more information available for the 5k, I suspect because of the issues stated above regarding the 3K series there are not as many in use. Thanks for the replies guys, I think I may grab an HD1 for the time being but keeping an eye out for a XTS 5000. It kind of seemed that I'd be limiting my self with the xt3k and your comments pretty much confirmed that notion. |
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Posted: 4/25/2023 7:01:18 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ^From what I've been able to find researching there is no FPP XTS 3000. Anyone feel free to correct me if that info is wrong. My gut feeling right now is to just wait to get a XTS 5000 for the time being. There seems to be a lot more information available for the 5k, I suspect because of the issues stated above regarding the 3K series there are not as many in use. Thanks for the replies guys, I think I may grab an HD1 for the time being but keeping an eye out for a XTS 5000. It kind of seemed that I'd be limiting my self with the xt3k and your comments pretty much confirmed that notion. I'm curious about the 5000. Is it nostalgia? By the end of the XTS line there were few differences the R versions were about it and most on the used market have their seals were "user serviced" and not true Rs. The 2500 is a phenomenal value if you aren't looking for a nostalgia piece and if so that's perfectly fine. |
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Posted: 4/25/2023 7:56:47 PM EDT
[#6]
For a ham/gmrs radio? I wouldn't. Especially so if you don't plan on using the digital side of it. Just too much complication with that as an analog-only radio.
Stick with FRS/GMRS for those services. Stick with a ham radio for amateur use. Commercial radios have great hardware, but they're designed (software and front-panel/UI) to be programmed by technicians with training and used by people who aren't radio-smart. The 3000's are kind of weird critters. They had some unique quirks the other models didn't. Astro CPS isn't exactly user-friendly either. One of the more difficult ones i've ever used. I have a few of them in just about every band split... paid for XTS and XTL CPS years ago... got a pile of shells at the radio shop in every color. Still don't recommend them for ham, and especially not GMRS use. 
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Posted: 4/25/2023 8:09:40 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm curious about the 5000. Is it nostalgia? By the end of the XTS line there were few differences the R versions were about it and most on the used market have their seals were "user serviced" and not true Rs. The 2500 is a phenomenal value if you aren't looking for a nostalgia piece and if so that's perfectly fine. I guess it could be nostalgia now that I think about it, and the thought of having a type of real deal tactical style comms setup. For the most part though, 3000 are pretty affordable and cost the least out of the three. I think the 5k just it just the natural transition to the next better model. I have no reservations about the 2500 though. This thread could've easily been about the XTS 2500 if they were in my price range (70m). I had also looked into a couple of the XPR series and EF Johnson 5100s. |
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Posted: 4/25/2023 8:29:16 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess it could be nostalgia now that I think about it, and the thought of having a type of real deal tactical style comms setup. For the most part though, 3000 are pretty affordable and cost the least out of the three. I think the 5k just it just the natural transition to the next better model. I have no reservations about the 2500 though. This thread could've easily been about the XTS 2500 if they were in my price range (70m). I had also looked into a couple of the XPR series and EF Johnson 5100s. I'm an unrepentant EFJ 5100ES fan and have several. Unfortunately they're not available in UHF at this time; that seems to be contingent on large lots of DoD surplus showing up periodically. It's a shame because they're just outright better (especially for ham use) than Astro25 portables. Non-ES 5100s, on the other hand - run away! |
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Posted: 4/25/2023 9:22:33 PM EDT
[#9]
I've not read all the posts yet...
I don't really talk much about where I work, but... I work in a radio shop for a county 911 system. We support all of our user agencies. I have play'd w/ everything from HT1000's to the current APX 8000/8500's.. DON'T DO IT.  They are decent little radios, but the support is just no longer there, and you will end up spending more money on trying to find batteries, RIB's/ cables, software, and a laptop to program it. If you are dead set on Mother /\/\... Find a XTS5000 with FPP. or a 2500. Honestly... I'm a Yaesu guy 
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Posted: 4/26/2023 9:33:06 AM EDT
[#10]
Thanks for the input guys, I'm pretty convinced. In fact y'all have saved me a nice chunk of change.
I'll be using an Ailunce HD1 for the time being as a dedicated field radio. Found a good deal on one and it seems relatively stout and rugged without all the limiting factors and software complexities. Really good point made in the earlier comments about not hindering the learning experience. Thanks again, all. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 10:39:32 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for the input guys, I'm pretty convinced. In fact y'all have saved me a nice chunk of change. I'll be using an Ailunce HD1 for the time being as a dedicated field radio. Found a good deal on one and it seems relatively stout and rugged without all the limiting factors and software complexities. Really good point made in the earlier comments about not hindering the learning experience. Thanks again, all. It's still worth playing with AFTER you get a traditional radio to learn with. Commercial gear is fun if not expensive and frustrating. It's a fun little rabbit hold but just not for a first radio. |
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Posted: 5/5/2023 10:48:34 AM EDT
[#12]
swore I'd never buy a b-feng, but that HD1 is tempting.
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Posted: 5/5/2023 11:19:16 AM EDT
[#13]
If you do get a XTS3000 I have some NIB crypto boards if your interested.
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Posted: 5/6/2023 10:27:29 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you do get a XTS3000 I have some NIB crypto boards if your interested. Message me the model numbers please. |
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Posted: 5/6/2023 10:20:42 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Really good point made in the earlier comments about not hindering the learning experience. Thanks again, all. Quote HistoryQuoted: Really good point made in the earlier comments about not hindering the learning experience. Thanks again, all. Commercial radios are a great learning experience, in learning how to get software to recognize com ports to recognize a programming cable to recognize a radio et al, and finally in how to set up the programming on a commercial radio. Eventually you'll get to actually use the radio. I almost exclusively use LMR type radios for VHF/UHF FM stuff, but agree that they are not the right choice for a first radio. You want something easier to fiddle with to start with. Quoted: It's still worth playing with AFTER you get a traditional radio to learn with. Commercial gear is fun if not expensive and frustrating. Exactly. I get almost all of my amateur-repurposed LMR radios on the used market, and while I've spent way too much on them in total, I generally get radios that I get a good deal on. My last radio I got at Goodwill 
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Posted: 5/7/2023 12:43:23 AM EDT
[#16]
I wish someone would post a guide with more than “gotta just look for it” when talking about Commercial gear software.
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Posted: 5/7/2023 12:52:14 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wish someone would post a guide with more than “gotta just look for it” when talking about Commercial gear software. Because all of the software is IP/copyrighted/etc. and most manufacturers are touchy about people getting their hands on it. Would I like if Moto/Harris/Etc. threw their software into the amateur world without a fuss? Absolutely, but they get touchy with people telling the world how to pirate their licensed software. More than one legal threat has been directed towards site owners for dabbling in it. |
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Posted: 5/7/2023 1:11:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because all of the software is IP/copyrighted/etc. and most manufacturers are touchy about people getting their hands on it. Would I like if Moto/Harris/Etc. threw their software into the amateur world without a fuss? Absolutely, but they get touchy with people telling the world how to pirate their licensed software. More than one legal threat has been directed towards site owners for dabbling in it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I wish someone would post a guide with more than “gotta just look for it” when talking about Commercial gear software. Because all of the software is IP/copyrighted/etc. and most manufacturers are touchy about people getting their hands on it. Would I like if Moto/Harris/Etc. threw their software into the amateur world without a fuss? Absolutely, but they get touchy with people telling the world how to pirate their licensed software. More than one legal threat has been directed towards site owners for dabbling in it. Yeah most of the big companies must subscribe to some kind of internet search service to watch for their stuff being pirated. It gets stomped quickly. |
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Posted: 5/7/2023 1:39:26 PM EDT
[#19]
Moto gave up. If you make a free MOL account APX and DMR is now free. Also, their customer reps have actually told people to go look online for software for older non supported models. It seems they finally realized it's not worth their time and money to worry about it.
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Posted: 5/7/2023 9:34:17 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because all of the software is IP/copyrighted/etc. and most manufacturers are touchy about people getting their hands on it. Would I like if Moto/Harris/Etc. threw their software into the amateur world without a fuss? Absolutely, but they get touchy with people telling the world how to pirate their licensed software. More than one legal threat has been directed towards site owners for dabbling in it. This is kinda the point. Folks talk about commercial gear like “oh it’s great just sus it out” skipping over the sheer opaqueness of getting started in it. Or… can buy / subscribe to software (if they even allow individuals to do so?). Which ads to cost. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 11:59:38 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: I advise against it. The 3000s are showing their age with EEPROM and display failures, and require Windows XP to program. You'd be better served by a 5000. Actually Windows XP isn't a requirement. A 32 bit version of NT based Windows is (i.e. Windows XP, Windows 7 32 bit or even Windows 10 32 bit). I actually run my "service" bench on a Core 2 machine that dual boots DOS 7.11 (stripped out of Windows 98) and Windows 7 Ultimate 32 bit...allows me to play with just about everything except for more recent versions of APX CPS, CPS 2.0 and Armada. Getting a 32 bit version of Windows is still quite difficult for those not in the know though. Quoted: Commercial radios are a great learning experience, in learning how to get software to recognize com ports to recognize a programming cable to recognize a radio et al, and finally in how to set up the programming on a commercial radio. Eventually you'll get to actually use the radio. I almost exclusively use LMR type radios for VHF/UHF FM stuff, but agree that they are not the right choice for a first radio. You want something easier to fiddle with to start with. Exactly. I get almost all of my amateur-repurposed LMR radios on the used market, and while I've spent way too much on them in total, I generally get radios that I get a good deal on. My last radio I got at Goodwill And you can spend hours and hours programming LMR radios. My current VM900 codeplug (which is still a work in progress) has 5 trunking systems, and several hundred conventional channels (due to what I do I have some fairly complex codeplugs). The last APX codeplug I built from scratch for a customer took 8 hours...about two dozen conventional channels and maybe two dozen trunking talkgroups (across two systems) took a solid 8 hours to build and that was working from templates of existing radios. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 4:01:52 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually Windows XP isn't a requirement. A 32 bit version of NT based Windows is (i.e. Windows XP, Windows 7 32 bit or even Windows 10 32 bit). I actually run my "service" bench on a Core 2 machine that dual boots DOS 7.11 (stripped out of Windows 98) and Windows 7 Ultimate 32 bit...allows me to play with just about everything except for more recent versions of APX CPS, CPS 2.0 and Armada. Getting a 32 bit version of Windows is still quite difficult for those not in the know though. And you can spend hours and hours programming LMR radios. My current VM900 codeplug (which is still a work in progress) has 5 trunking systems, and several hundred conventional channels (due to what I do I have some fairly complex codeplugs). The last APX codeplug I built from scratch for a customer took 8 hours...about two dozen conventional channels and maybe two dozen trunking talkgroups (across two systems) took a solid 8 hours to build and that was working from templates of existing radios. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I advise against it. The 3000s are showing their age with EEPROM and display failures, and require Windows XP to program. You'd be better served by a 5000. Actually Windows XP isn't a requirement. A 32 bit version of NT based Windows is (i.e. Windows XP, Windows 7 32 bit or even Windows 10 32 bit). I actually run my "service" bench on a Core 2 machine that dual boots DOS 7.11 (stripped out of Windows 98) and Windows 7 Ultimate 32 bit...allows me to play with just about everything except for more recent versions of APX CPS, CPS 2.0 and Armada. Getting a 32 bit version of Windows is still quite difficult for those not in the know though. Quoted: Commercial radios are a great learning experience, in learning how to get software to recognize com ports to recognize a programming cable to recognize a radio et al, and finally in how to set up the programming on a commercial radio. Eventually you'll get to actually use the radio. I almost exclusively use LMR type radios for VHF/UHF FM stuff, but agree that they are not the right choice for a first radio. You want something easier to fiddle with to start with. Exactly. I get almost all of my amateur-repurposed LMR radios on the used market, and while I've spent way too much on them in total, I generally get radios that I get a good deal on. My last radio I got at Goodwill And you can spend hours and hours programming LMR radios. My current VM900 codeplug (which is still a work in progress) has 5 trunking systems, and several hundred conventional channels (due to what I do I have some fairly complex codeplugs). The last APX codeplug I built from scratch for a customer took 8 hours...about two dozen conventional channels and maybe two dozen trunking talkgroups (across two systems) took a solid 8 hours to build and that was working from templates of existing radios. What's really wonderful is doing something like that to get a mobile set up, then starting over again for a handheld (or different brand radio) because you can't copy and paste between the different software 
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Posted: 5/8/2023 6:12:54 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's really wonderful is doing something like that to get a mobile set up, then starting over again for a handheld (or different brand radio) because you can't copy and paste between the different software Have you heard of the Gospel according to Edgar Johnson? It's called Armada and it is glorious for that. Only thing that really drives me crazy about EFJ software is the insistence on listing TX frequency ahead of RX frequency. That being said, you could drag and drop in some software's (Astro 25 CPS) between the portable and mobile but I don't believe Astro Saber/XTS3000 CPS (let's call it Astro Portable) had that functionality with Astro Spectra CPS (we could call it Astro Mobile but as the Astro Spectra was literally the only radio supported by that CPS I don't know if there's a point in it). Insert confusion for an Astro Spectra Plus... |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 8:00:54 PM EDT
[#24]
I programmed a Kenwood recently and you couldn't even copy and paste channels within the software. So a channel that needed to be in multiple groups/zones had to be entered repetitively. Also had to bring up a separate screen to change CTCSS tones on each individual channel, they couldn't be entered in the normal spreadsheet type channel screen.
There are brands I have no experience with, like the previously mentioned Johnson, but I've always wondered why they couldn't enter a list of channels, and then for a zone you just pick from the channels. That way there's no need to have channels entered multiple times. |
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Posted: 5/9/2023 2:13:52 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you heard of the Gospel according to Edgar Johnson? It's called Armada and it is glorious for that. Only thing that really drives me crazy about EFJ software is the insistence on listing TX frequency ahead of RX frequency. That being said, you could drag and drop in some software's (Astro 25 CPS) between the portable and mobile but I don't believe Astro Saber/XTS3000 CPS (let's call it Astro Portable) had that functionality with Astro Spectra CPS (we could call it Astro Mobile but as the Astro Spectra was literally the only radio supported by that CPS I don't know if there's a point in it). Insert confusion for an Astro Spectra Plus... Hell, even PCConfigure allows fairly seamless transition between mobile/portable for a given codeplug. I still have a few 5100ESs but we're moving to Viking hardware as used availability allows. I just scored a UHF R1 VP6000 and love the thing. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 1:53:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wish someone would post a guide with more than "gotta just look for it" when talking about Commercial gear software. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 5:58:42 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wish someone would post a guide with more than "gotta just look for it" when talking about Commercial gear software. It's either buy it from the manufacturer, or pirate it, like any other pirated software. And "how to pirate software" and "what russian hacker websites have pirated software" are topics that website owners aren't very enthusiastic about hosting on their websites, especially when /\/\ and others have sued over it. Posting /\/\ is kind of a running joke as long ago some website got sued just for using the name of the company. |
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Posted: 6/7/2023 2:55:33 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's either buy it from the manufacturer, or pirate it, like any other pirated software. And "how to pirate software" and "what russian hacker websites have pirated software" are topics that website owners aren't very enthusiastic about hosting on their websites, especially when /\/\ and others have sued over it. Posting /\/\ is kind of a running joke as long ago some website got sued just for using the name of the company. You forgot about that Australian tech site...or the limey ham filing cabinet. |
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Posted: 6/7/2023 6:46:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You forgot about that Australian tech site...or the limey ham filing cabinet. |
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