I have the basic what you need to prep for food water ammo and so on. Right now I'm looking at my next high dollar buy.

I'm at the crossroad do I put away money for NVG'S or a suppressor? Wish I would have bought one of these 6 years ago but used the money on reloading tools and items.

So I have the chance to get one of the two items. Also, save for the other.

I’d probably go with NVG’s. I have a suppressor on an 5.56 and it’s so-so. I’m assuming you’ve got body armor?

chances are you'd be better prepared spending that money elsewhere than guns, ammo, and accessories. If your set on those two choices, NVG would give you additional capability and a more of a tactical advantage being able to ID targets where as a suppressor would only come into play after you're already weapons hot. That being said a suppressor would probably get used more. I've found  suppressed .22lr with subsonic ammo to be a worth every penny. Debt reduction, increasing savings, and buying land are still far better ideas than buying NVG or suppressors. I'd take a tractor and a 40 acre parcel over all the guns, ammo, and gear a guy could have

I own both and say night vision
1) it’s more useful when you aren’t shooting. So camping, hiking, stargazing, etc
2) if SHTF I can make a suppressor but can’t make night vision
3) rifle rounds suppressed still suck for volume. You need 300bo subs or 9mm to really enjoy the benefits of a can.

In your shoes I would but a form 1 can kit now. Don’t build it. Save for and buy NV. Then once that’s done file your stamp and finish the can.

Was just going to say this

There are more than a few cheap thermal options out there that provide a significant advantage on the cheap.  Otherwise like others said, NV over suppressor. Not even really a discussion in my mind...wish I would have been smarter on that about six years ago

NV is going to be more beneficial than a suppressor in most cases. Highly recommend getting both.

With that said, I recommend using a suppressor with NVG's. Kills the flash and thus flaring on the NV. They are mutually beneficial.

Honestly, I think both are kinda silly.  I think you could do better with that money.

Some quick ideas......

Cash stash

Pantry overstock

First Aid/Med stash

Deep Cycle/Inverter setup

2 generators, installation, and fuel

None are as fun to talk about on the internet, or with your buddies, but all are far more likely to be useful.




We just witnessed first hand (and still are) a global pandemic........something to be prepared for.

In the past year......I've had enough cash money, pantry items, and meds on hand that I hardly noticed shortages of anything, and rarely made a public appearance.

Neither a gun muffler or headlight glasses would have been useful to me.

Oh.....and the next step I'm taking Is buying 2 older "bulletproof" type snowmobiles for emergency winter transportation in Northern Michigan.

That might sound silly too......but I already have most everything else I need or would want.

But what about once somebody has procured all this? Or sees the likelihood of local violence as a more probable than historically imaginable possibility?

Seeing at night is cool as hell and has serious tactical uses. Once you have a month of food, a good carry gun, decent rifle, ammo and training for both, it makes sense to move in that tactical direction

I agree, somewhat.  If someone has other things covered, I do see them both as having their localized, specialized and rare uses.  

Being silent has it's reasons and rewards.

It is kinda cool being able to see in the dark.  I have a gen1 monocular thing I got years ago for cheap.  I've used it to look at animals and loook at the neighbors.  I can see where it would be useful for security reasons. But generally, I can see in the dark just fine.  

Not trying to be snarky, but I think getting some training might need to be higher on your list if you believe your ability to see in the dark can come anywhere close to an opponent’s ability to kill you with NV.

Can you see my IR spectrum laser dot on your nuggets?

generally, I can see in the dark just fine.

Most things are doable with electricity and it makes life easier.  

Hurricane Sandy was not too bad because I was showering whenever I needed it.  

And we were as warm as we wanted to be.

Bill

The kit is a good idea I was looking at them sometime ago and posted a question on the build your own that was never answered. Have you built one or have knowledge on it?

So why would you not want to be able to hunt and see at night to not give your position away?

I understand the snowmobile if I lived again where it snowed a lot I would get one also.

I would make fun of you, but I suspect this comment was made out of ignorance vs stupidity.  Gen3 night vision devices amplify light by tens of thousands of times.  
You think you can see well, then you flip down the goggles and see hundreds of things you could not see unaided...

Now how useful is that vs. the price?  Depends.  In most civilian situations, throwing a 1000+ lumen light on something is very effective.  You can do that for 1/30th the price of high-end NV.  NV's big advantage is in being discreet while seeing things.

My priority for defense would be guns/optics, white lights, armor, then NVGs.  Once you add  white light and armor, you can fight on at-least even terms with 99% of potential threats.  That's probably enough.
For the $3-5k you'd spend on NV, you can get weapon lights, handheld lights, a generator, flood lights, and alarms.  For defense, a ton of perimeter lighting, an authoritative voice/loudspeaker, and a person willing to back it up with aimed fire will get you pretty far...and power and light is a multi-purpose thing.

That said, NV is really cool, so I won't say "don't get it.  Just realize there is a big opportunity cost for a niche system.

Suppressors are really good in conjunction with NVGs, and I like my hearing.  So, definitely nice to have.  In a civilian defensive scenario, they are optional, IMO.  Good for recoil, sound, and flash reduction, but may also get you bad PR or more scrutiny by the DA/lawyers/public.

I'm not worried about a lawyer when SHTF. Are you? In an everyday home invasion here in free Texas, I'd not be worried about it unless you live in the city that voted for Joe!

Also white light shows your position! Nothing says human-like a big white light out in the darkness even more than the orange or red of fire.

Understand what your saying but most likely in my situation if your shot in my home you got past 4 dogs that HATE outsiders! One of them being 80+ lbs and being only 8 months old! By that time if you're not chewed apart I feel a pistol will serve me well!

Yet what you do say does hold merit! If you live in or near one of the pro-Joe cites then yes having these items like a can or NVG's will make you the bad guy! Why did you shoot this poor man/woman entering your home in the cover of darkness when you had NVG and can see that they were just looking for help! I know the whole $hit!

It’s only money OP....spend it all.

Alternatively....have you thought about how your retirement looks? The S may never HTF but you WILL get old one day. Are you ready for that?

OP,

FWIW, I have numerous tax stamps and NV currently on order.  I wish I'd gotten NV when it was easier to find.  Since the average POS probably won't have NV, if things get spicy I'd like to own the night to a certain extent.

If you already have the stuff in his post (like most of us do), then I'd say NV and then suppressors in this order.

1. 22LR (way quieter than 5.56 and cheaper to feed a .22)
2a. Pistol Suppressor (Personally it's more useful with subsonics, especially with a PCC)
2b. .30cal Suppressor with mounts to put on your 5.56 rifles (this is #2 if you don't own a useful pistol caliber host)
3. 5.56 Suppressor.

I have good night vision, but just bought a cheap sight mark day/ night scope
$380 for a demo and it works pretty good. It comes with ir external light too for pitch black.
It’s more like the old star light scopes. Way way better Than  no nv scope

Yea guys with good stuff could see the ir but I’m not worried about them

Cheap nv, form one, and cheap rifle
Probably in your budget

One eyed guy is king of the blind and all that...

Attached File

Neither actually.  That comment was made after a lifetime of living and playing in the woods of northern Michigan, and only owning one flashlight.

Scotopic Vision .....we can all see in the dark.

Will some cool hardware do better?.....sure will.  I never said it wouldn't.

I have NV, suppressors, and a generator.  During our last SHTF event only the generator was of any use, and it more than paid for itself by saving a huge chest freezer full of meat during a four day power outage in July.

In my area Mother Nature is a much bigger threat than BLM/ANTIFA/goblins/meth heads/etc.

It's arguable too, that if those threat levels were reversed.......that silencer/night vision money would be better spent on a body armor and a moving truck going to a better place.

Whoa there horsie....

1. Why NVG or Suppressor?  What is the mission?

2. Do you have debt you could pay off?

If you're positively focused on 1. then I would go NVG, here's why:
- NVG will help you move at night and AVOID conflict when possible.
- NVG will help you move at night and WIN conflict when required.
- NVG has real world and WROL uses, such as game spotting, intruder detecting, etc..
- Suppressors have one use - shooting.  And in defensive combat, they are not always applicable.

How is your emergency comms situation? Hf radio antenna coax etc, knowledge is power.

Next high dollar prep?
Doesnt get much higher dollar than BOV or BOL.

@tayous1 sorry just saw I was tagged in this. I haven't done my own form 1 can but I am familiar with the kits, ideas behind them, and legal process involved. I've done form 4 cans, SBRs, SBSs, etc so I would say I'm reasonably solid on NFA.

Basically you can have a big can that crews onto a gun barrel. You can own a bunch of "freeze plugs" or the machined equivalent of them. You can't dril the final holes or put them on your gun until you have the permission slip. But by going the DIY route the turn around time is lower. Like 2-4 weeks for some. Instead of the almost year it took to get my latest form 4.

You won't always save money but you can get something well set up. What's advantageous is that you can always buy those parts before you need them. if SHTF, like for real, I'm not worried about stamps and I bet we hear a lot more auto gun fire than there are stamps for....

Anyway I would go with a decent can that's user configurable and in probably 45. I have the Griffin Revolution 45. I can run it really short for convenience, or I can run it long for the best suppression. It's used mostly on pistol ranges and works for every caliber pistol I shoot. It's rated for limited rifle use, too. So I can enjoy it at the range but actually use it hunting or for home defence. Many pistol cans aren't rated for that so this was a nice bonus for this make and model.

Night vision is life changing. Anyone that says they can see just fine without it is literally full of shit. Whether or not that ability is financially worth it to you is another story. There are less expensive options. I have time behind a lot of sets and bought a Sionyx camera and set it up with a helmet mount. It's less expensive than a PVS 14 and has less resolution, but it excels with added IR light or in the suburbs (where I am and I'm willing to add IR). It allows you to see well enough to move through a dark house or yard without any external lights. It allows you to scan an area with showing other people that you are scanning that area. My first day with it I helped a neighbor find a dog hiding in their bushes. they walked by a few times and I was able to see it where they couldn't.

Good thermal is also crazy awesome, and I will get more into it as the price goes down, which is likely with thermal (it's digital) but unlikely with NV (it's mostly analog). I will also buy a great version of both when we move to the rural family farm in PA, but right now we're in the suburbs so it's not that dark and I don't have ability to see more than 200 yards in any one direction.

if shit really hit the fan I would rather have 2 guys with night vision/thermal and a suppressed bolt action 22 than a whole party of fat armed guys with lights and armor. Those fat guys gotta sleep sometime and in the dark with a silent 22 you can get a few and leave before anyone knows what the hell is going on.

Anybody that doesn't think NVG is a movement enhancer, do this.....

go in a dark basement, cover any windows and turn out the lights after one person puts on NVG
let a few people mill around in the dark
have the person with NVG run around and tap them and knock them or hit them with a stick
In sufficient darkness, the person with NVG will totally surprise the others and can move by them with impunity

Did it to my kids, multiple times.

Now granted, that advantage is somewhat mitigated as more light is introduced, such as in a city. YMMV

Still, it's a powerful tool, especially the farther out you are from the evil cities

How’s your training?

I'm aware of human vision and it's limitations.  I teach short classes on it a couple times a year.  
You might get 20/200 vision at night (using mostly your rods).  You'll get 20/25 or 20/30 with properly adjusted gen 3 NVGs, and you'll be able to see more things...it's an orders of magnitude difference.
How useful that is depends on the situation, but if the situation is fighting people or avoiding them when it's dark, it's REALLY useful.

I had a gen1 monocle...I ran into a garbage can while trying to walk with it.  If you have good eyes, gen 1 isn't a whole lot better, tbh.  (Although extra IR lighting can help a lot)
You can fly through mountains on a moonless night with gen 3s.

I'm a little late to the thread.  What's the rundown on the that NV scope?

IMHO, BEFORE you jump to the expensive stuff, like night vision, you need to have the other more useful stuff first. a suppressor is not a huge expense, so thats doable if your on any kind of budget, but unless your tolling in cash is wait on night vision.

1. food. / storage  / tp etc
2. water purification / storage
3. generator / kerosene heater / lanterns / camp stoves
4. medical gear.
5. fuel storage.
6. basic guns and ammo. / and related vests / pouches / holsters, etc
7. tools for fixing your vehicles, home, problems, etc.
8. communications... like baufeng radios / ham radio.

you will likely need all of that long before you ever need a gun, much less night vision. i think we will be seeing widespread power outages in the near future. the nashville bombing, and the recent fbi arrests of people plotting to shoot transformer and power stations etc.  between mad people on both sides and democrat incompetence i think power loss and such on a  regular basis is likely. along with higher prices, shortages, etc. possibly even to shut down areas to help gov in various ways perform operations, limit communications for civilians, etc.

its a powerful tool... but in general your going to be inside your home, trying to eat, drink, stay warm, and keep your vehicles running, and family safe, armed and armored, with tp and medical gear, vs running around doing search and destroy patrols in the dark.

if you have all the basics well covered though, hell yes, go for it !

Other then land... night vision is what id like to get.

With the big drops in price for thermal, why not consider thermal over NV?

Thermal is great to spot living things. NV let’s you navigate and drive on top of shooting stuff. Remember thermal won’t see through glass windshields.

How's your overall health and fitness?  This whole misadventure of 2020 sparked a great opportunity to hit the weights, go for a run, change your diet, improve yourself.

I like to say thermal is great if you are stationary. If you are moving or you and your target are moving NV is the preference.

Good points.  

I don't ever see much discussion about the flip-side to NV/Thermal - as in how to avoid detection if someone else has the technology.  I presume that's because it's not really 'politically correct' or palatable as the stereotypical bad guy would not be likely to have either of these devices.

https://www.amazon.com/Sightmark-Wraith-4-32x50-Digital-Riflescope/dp/B07MW21G53/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3GYKVHSXBGS6W&dchild=1&keywords=sightmark+wraith+hd+4-32x50+digital+riflescope&qid=1610767829&s=sporting-goods&sprefix=Sightmark+w%2Csporting%2C270&sr=1-2

I also got some cheap nightowel brand goggles for $180 on eBay that work pretty good
These rely on IR light but actually work good, I’m rural too
https://www.amazon.com/CREATIVE-XP-Digital-Binoculars-Darkness/dp/B086PP5K8G/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1HG6YBTMP1I9M&dchild=1&keywords=night+owl+night+vision+binoculars&qid=1610768162&sprefix=nightowl+ni%2Caps%2C334&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFHTU1JOFJCWFE4SCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRJZD1BMDEwNjYwNko1RUJLTEowWkY1QyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwODE4MTcwMVhQMVo5U0NGUTIwTiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Cheap NV is way better than no NV

Cheap NV can be better than none... although some gen1 can't handle varied lighting as well as the mk1 mod0 eyeball.  I learned that at a game at an urban training site.  Flood lights blinded the optic and very dark shadows were black holes.  Even good gear still struggles if you have random bright lights and dark areas.

Gen3 stuff is very capable.  Gen1 can be ok, but you probably need supplemental lighting.

With night vision you need light discipline. A tiny flashlight will look like a lighthouse. Same with IR. Anything you’d hide from someone seeing you in the light is what you’d use to hide. NV is light, just a spectrum you can’t see with the naked eye, so camo, low motion, etc will work.

Thermal is heat. There was a big and interesting thread in here but basically you need a ton of material between you and it. Thick and lots of foliage, walls/glass (they can’t see through walls like that one 90s movie) etc. also distance. Far enough away and I could tell there’s something there but not enough to ID.

Good thermal and you’re outside you’re pretty much screwed. Best bet is not to be hiding from someone with good thermal