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Posted: 10/25/2022 10:16:58 AM EDT
[#1]
300blk subs
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Posted: 10/25/2022 10:40:21 AM EDT
[#2]
300 or 8.6 blk
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Posted: 10/25/2022 10:43:44 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: Assume have the AR, AK and .22 covered. For perimeter defense, hunting and SHTF in suburbs. Intentionally don’t give you too specific/much information. Thx. |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 10:46:55 AM EDT
[#4]
Are you doing only subsonic stuff? If I assume yes I’d go with something bigger like a 450 Bushmaster. 300 Blackout definitely has the most options for subsonic ammo. If you reload then the list is almost endless.
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Posted: 10/25/2022 10:50:34 AM EDT
[#5]
5.56
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Posted: 10/25/2022 10:57:28 AM EDT
[#6]
300 Blkout
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Posted: 10/25/2022 11:21:44 AM EDT
[#7]
9mm 147gr is just as quiet as 300blk 220gr
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Posted: 10/25/2022 12:59:33 PM EDT
[#8]
44 mag or 357 mag. At one time ruger made bolt action for these
Get a heavy enough bullet, they would be sub sonic Could shoot the specials in them. Paired with bolt action and suppressor it would be real quiet |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 1:12:05 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 44 mag or 357 mag. At one time ruger made bolt action for these Get a heavy enough bullet, they would be sub sonic Could shoot the specials in them. Paired with bolt action and suppressor it would be real quiet They still make both of them. If their website is current the 44’s are threaded but the 357 is not. https://ruger.com/products/77Series7744/models.html |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 1:38:36 PM EDT
[#10]
300 blk subs would be the best compromise between what's been mentioned. Hits harder than 9mm subs, better suppression than those larger bore diameters, and has tons of industry support at this point.
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Posted: 10/25/2022 5:34:04 PM EDT
[#11]
The price of 300 Blk ammo is ridiculous, post SHTF won’t be available, it’s very much like the much cheaper and more available 7.62x39, even in subsonic. Also, only a couple of companies make bolt actions for it and I’m not a fan of either.
I’m looking at the Bergara b14 HMR IN 308. What do you think? |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 6:40:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Sure. 300blk if you're making your own, 308 if you want off the shelf. 7.62x39 was only cheap and readily available because of the Russians. Now that Russia will be sanctioned pretty much permanently, that's far from a given. Nothing made in the US will ever be as cheap as the Russian stuff was.
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Posted: 10/25/2022 6:48:26 PM EDT
[#13]
I would go 308 with the ability to reload, subs just as quiet as 300 blackout, but the abilty to reach out and touch someone if needed. I already load 300 blk so 308 is not much of a stretch, just need dies and caliber conversion kit.
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Posted: 10/25/2022 7:13:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Any of the subsonic 30 cal options sound great.
Since this is a thought exercise, a bolt .223 that can accept standard AR mags would be my choice. Reduce types of ammo to stock. Can handle most problems out to 600yds easily. Mag well adds cross-compatability. .223 is everywhere and is probably the most common round to barter with in the apocalypse. The silencer wouldn't be as effective with standard ammo, but you probably have electronic hearing protection for everyone anyway |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 7:16:39 PM EDT
[#15]
.300 blk
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Posted: 10/25/2022 8:11:48 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The price of 300 Blk ammo is ridiculous, post SHTF won’t be available, it’s very much like the much cheaper and more available 7.62x39, even in subsonic. Also, only a couple of companies make bolt actions for it and I’m not a fan of either. I’m looking at the Bergara b14 HMR IN 308. What do you think? Which couple companies below that make 300BO bolt guns are you speaking of (Remington, Ruger, Christensen Arms, Savage, Howa, CZ? I think if you are not reloading, you are not serious. If you are serious (which means you are reloading), you should not be scared of 300BO’s price or availability. If some type of STHF does transpire requiring the use of anything mentioned in this thread, it doesn’t matter what caliber you have, there is no availability. |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 11:05:41 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 300 Blkout |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 11:40:15 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The price of 300 Blk ammo is ridiculous, post SHTF won’t be available, it’s very much like the much cheaper and more available 7.62x39, even in subsonic. Also, only a couple of companies make bolt actions for it and I’m not a fan of either. I’m looking at the Bergara b14 HMR IN 308. What do you think? If you have a case or two stashed that's probably enough to last until you die if we are talking SHTF. If you want a 308 get one but they aren't as good for dedicated subsonic use. The Bergara is a good gun. |
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Posted: 10/26/2022 12:19:28 AM EDT
[#19]
My 20" Rem 700 SPS .308 bolt with subs is quieter than my Ruger Ranch 300BO 16" with subs.
(Both using Thunderbeast 30P-1) I didn't expect that... |
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Posted: 10/26/2022 12:48:22 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My 20" Rem 700 SPS .308 bolt with subs is quieter than my Ruger Ranch 300BO 16" with subs. (Both using Thunderbeast 30P-1) I didn't expect that... Have you chrono’d them both? Which loads? |
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Posted: 10/26/2022 1:17:32 AM EDT
[#21]
A bolt action rimfire checks all the boxes but defense, and if you are set up to ambush it can do that as well. Nothing is quieter, and for the price of a case of good 556 you'll have a lifetime of ammo.
I wouldn't want it for deer or defense, but quiet work at night it'd be hard to beat. |
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Posted: 10/26/2022 1:30:40 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you chrono’d them both? Which loads? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My 20" Rem 700 SPS .308 bolt with subs is quieter than my Ruger Ranch 300BO 16" with subs. (Both using Thunderbeast 30P-1) I didn't expect that... Have you chrono’d them both? Which loads? All factory. And yes, I know some factory is borderline. No, no Chrono on any of them. So far: Winchester Super Suppressed in 308 and the 300BO. Peak Performance 300 BO 220gr subs. Atomic brand subs.. Both. 175 .308 and 220 300BO. Hornady Subsonic 300BO 190gr American Eagle 309BO 220 subs. Some off brand sub 308 they don't make any longer...can't remember the name. (Cardboard box graphic was designed like an ammo can). Got it from Buds about 5 years ago. Probably a few others. No decibel meter...this is just to my ear. |
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Posted: 10/26/2022 2:40:04 PM EDT
[#23]
Why not stick with x39 with a Ruger American Ranch chambered in that? You already have ammo so would only need to get subsonic ammo.
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Posted: 10/27/2022 5:59:36 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All factory. And yes, I know some factory is borderline. No, no Chrono on any of them. So far: Winchester Super Suppressed in 308 and the 300BO. Peak Performance 300 BO 220gr subs. Atomic brand subs.. Both. 175 .308 and 220 300BO. Hornady Subsonic 300BO 190gr American Eagle 309BO 220 subs. Some off brand sub 308 they don't make any longer...can't remember the name. (Cardboard box graphic was designed like an ammo can). Got it from Buds about 5 years ago. Probably a few others. No decibel meter...this is just to my ear. This is very interesting, anyone else has a similar experience? |
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Posted: 10/27/2022 6:06:39 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why not stick with x39 with a Ruger American Ranch chambered in that? You already have ammo so would only need to get subsonic ammo. Makes sense, but I’m torn about x39, I’m not sure if I need something with more oomph to reach out and touch something. If a suppressed 308 bolt gun can be as quiet as subsonic 300BLK, I might go with a 308 . |
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Posted: 10/27/2022 6:29:17 PM EDT
[#26]
Heavy 556.
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Posted: 10/27/2022 8:01:45 PM EDT
[#27]
For a dedicated suppressed rifle demanding the absolutely quietest operation, a single shot or bolt gun in 45 long Colt. Loaded with 300 grain wad cutters.
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Posted: 10/27/2022 8:03:37 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Makes sense, but I’m torn about x39, I’m not sure if I need something with more oomph to reach out and touch someone. If a suppressed 308 bolt gun can be as quiet as subsonic 300BLK, I might go with a 308 . It can’t unless it is drastically under loaded. The .300 is just made for it man. It is crazy quiet. |
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Posted: 10/27/2022 9:56:08 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Makes sense, but I’m torn about x39, I’m not sure if I need something with more oomph to reach out and touch someone. If a suppressed 308 bolt gun can be as quiet as subsonic 300BLK, I might go with a 308 . Do you reload? 308 Subsonic definitely exists now. One issue is stabilization but I think they've gotten better at picking bullets so maybe it's not as issue. 308's usually have twist rates that aren't ideal for subs which is why you often see them with lighter bullets. Most 300 Blackout guns have faster twists so they are better suited for it. Any subsonic through a good can is going to be quiet. The Blackout would probably meter a bit better because of the smaller case. |
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Posted: 10/29/2022 8:07:03 PM EDT
[#30]
I’m an avid trap/skeet shooter and reload for shotguns but not for rifles or pistols! I’m thinking it’s not a bad idea to have basic capability tho.
How much is the 300BLK defensive rounds per 1000? |
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Posted: 10/29/2022 9:23:35 PM EDT
[#31]
Just depends on what load. Something like the 110 Barnes black tip that everyone seems to think is one of the best supersonic loads is probably $1.50-$2.00 a round. For Subsonics I see Sportsmans has 190 SubX for $1.25 a round and some of the really fancy copper/brass expanding subs the sky is the limit I think I've seen them as high as $4-$5 a round.
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Posted: 10/29/2022 11:30:16 PM EDT
[#32]
Slight variation here. 10.5” barreled .300BLK AR with an SLR adjustable gas block that can be turned off = straight pull bolt action rifle.
I prefer Hornady 190gr sub-x and stocked it semi-deep before panics set in. Of course one could turn the gas back on and have a full powered semi auto with 110gr TAC-TX if necessary, of which I’m stocked deep with factory loads 
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Posted: 10/30/2022 5:53:22 PM EDT
[#33]
For a bolt action, you don't need a specialty case like 300 BO,452 Bushmaster, and others in the same class. unless you only buy ammunition, and don't/won't reload. If you do reload, you can have anything your heart desires, and I'd recommend traditional hunting calibers for this, excluding .223 and .308 which have large current military usage, and at some point you may not want to appear to have military type weapons. For up to medium range, even something like 35 Remington, or even 30-30 has some degree of merit, depending on your individual needs, which we know nothing about yet.
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Posted: 10/31/2022 7:32:37 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you reload? 308 Subsonic definitely exists now. One issue is stabilization but I think they've gotten better at picking bullets so maybe it's not as issue. 308's usually have twist rates that aren't ideal for subs which is why you often see them with lighter bullets. Most 300 Blackout guns have faster twists so they are better suited for it. Any subsonic through a good can is going to be quiet. The Blackout would probably meter a bit better because of the smaller case. Listen to him. If you plan on suppressing, its best to reload. You can load about any caliber you want subsonic. What that means is a muzzle velocity under 1,100 fps, below the speed of sound. What happens is if you fire a faster than sound bullet out of a suppressed gun, the gun all you will hear, assuming its a good suppressor, is the clack of the bolt which you don't even have that on a bolt action, but as the round goes down range it will break the sound barrier and you get a sonic boom. How loud depends on how large the caliber but at a minimum its going to sound like a .22lr. That's a minimum. For example, a .22 short with a short barrel and suppressor is surprisingly quiet. Note here as you choose your reloading gear, pay special attention to your scale. Typical rifle subsonic loads are a faster powder, often pistol powder, so at very low load weights. For example, my favorite .223 subsonic is 3 grains of Clays. Note 2, Once you get into loading be forewarned once you realize you can load ammunition better than anything you can buy in a box, its highly addictive and will become your ammo of choice, subsonic or not. Note 3, on a rifle, it will usually mean going subsonic you have a different zero. Note both so its not that hard to switch and once your realize slower is really the same depending at what distance, it won't matter much. Every bullet no matter what the caliber is going to start slowing down once fired at a given distance. You can calculate that which helps in caliber selection. Tj |
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Posted: 10/31/2022 1:29:11 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any of the subsonic 30 cal options sound great. Since this is a thought exercise, a bolt .223 that can accept standard AR mags would be my choice. Reduce types of ammo to stock. Can handle most problems out to 600yds easily. Mag well adds cross-compatability. .223 is everywhere and is probably the most common round to barter with in the apocalypse. The silencer wouldn't be as effective with standard ammo, but you probably have electronic hearing protection for everyone anyway All good points except, I'm looking at suppressed for night response and not give away my location. Any thoughts how to remedy the bark of the 556? |
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Posted: 10/31/2022 2:44:48 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All good points except, I'm looking at suppressed for night response and not give away my location. Any thoughts how to remedy the bark of the 556? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Any of the subsonic 30 cal options sound great. Since this is a thought exercise, a bolt .223 that can accept standard AR mags would be my choice. Reduce types of ammo to stock. Can handle most problems out to 600yds easily. Mag well adds cross-compatability. .223 is everywhere and is probably the most common round to barter with in the apocalypse. The silencer wouldn't be as effective with standard ammo, but you probably have electronic hearing protection for everyone anyway All good points except, I'm looking at suppressed for night response and not give away my location. Any thoughts how to remedy the bark of the 556? There’s nothing that hides a supersonic crack. The best cans do a good job of minimizing it but you can’t be quiet and break the sound barrier. |
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Posted: 11/1/2022 2:35:58 PM EDT
[#37]
I didn’t think so but thought to ask anyway. So it’s back to subsonic x39, 300BLK, and 308.
X39 - I have the host and the supersonic ammo, just need to buy the subsonic ammo. The twist rate may be an issue with accuracy with subsonic. Short to mid range capability. 300 Blk - Need to covert one of my guns or buy a new one, ammo is expensive and unavailable after SHTF. Short to mid range capability. 308 - Have bolt and semi hunting guns but not threaded, but may need to buy tactical for more effectiveness, need to buy supersonic and subsonic ammo, not cheap, extends the range considerably. Short to long range capability. |
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Posted: 11/1/2022 3:43:09 PM EDT
[#38]
7.62x39 will do what you want. It’s been a battle caliber for longer than most of us have been alive or close to it. There are several subsonic available including the new Hornady load which looks promising.
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Posted: 11/1/2022 5:04:13 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn’t think so but thought to ask anyway. So it’s back to subsonic x39, 300BLK, and 308. X39 - I have the host and the supersonic ammo, just need to buy the subsonic ammo. The twist rate may be an issue with accuracy with subsonic. Short to mid range capability. 300 Blk - Need to covert one of my guns or buy a new one, ammo is expensive and unavailable after SHTF. Short to mid range capability. 308 - Have bolt and semi hunting guns but not threaded, but may need to buy tactical for more effectiveness, need to buy supersonic and subsonic ammo, not cheap, extends the range considerably. Short to long range capability. .300BLK is purpose made for subs. Semi with gas shut off as I detailed above can be as close to "hollywood quiet" as you'll get in the real world. Perhaps a locked bolt gun would be 1db less? Not sure. You can cut down 5.56 to make brass and 220gr FMJ bullets have been plentiful as pulls. You won't get any significant ballistic advantage in any of the three calibers you're looking at when shooting subs. Ballistically, a .310 and two .308 projectiles traveling at ~1050FPS have almost identical trajectories and energy behind the bullet at the same bullet weight. .308 supersonic is the best of the three in that category, however. |
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Posted: 11/15/2022 4:22:41 AM EDT
[#40]
Thanks TJ! I'm looking into reloading subsonic.
Quote HistoryQuoted: Listen to him. If you plan on suppressing, its best to reload. You can load about any caliber you want subsonic. What that means is a muzzle velocity under 1,100 fps, below the speed of sound. What happens is if you fire a faster than sound bullet out of a suppressed gun, the gun all you will hear, assuming its a good suppressor, is the clack of the bolt which you don't even have that on a bolt action, but as the round goes down range it will break the sound barrier and you get a sonic boom. How loud depends on how large the caliber but at a minimum its going to sound like a .22lr. That's a minimum. For example, a .22 short with a short barrel and suppressor is surprisingly quiet. Note here as you choose your reloading gear, pay special attention to your scale. Typical rifle subsonic loads are a faster powder, often pistol powder, so at very low load weights. For example, my favorite .223 subsonic is 3 grains of Clays. Note 2, Once you get into loading be forewarned once you realize you can load ammunition better than anything you can buy in a box, its highly addictive and will become your ammo of choice, subsonic or not. Note 3, on a rifle, it will usually mean going subsonic you have a different zero. Note both so its not that hard to switch and once your realize slower is really the same depending at what distance, it won't matter much. Every bullet no matter what the caliber is going to start slowing down once fired at a given distance. You can calculate that which helps in caliber selection. Tj |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 9:44:39 PM EDT
[#41]
As a complete wildcard, how about .458 socom?
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Posted: 11/26/2022 12:32:50 PM EDT
[#42]
My vote is a semi auto .308 with standard loads. Will it be as quiet as subs? No. Will it be as quiet as 300BO subs? No.
But it's got the horse power to accomplish most jobs as it'll put down most any game on the NA continent. If your looking to be silent (or as quiet as possible) you going to limit yourself on yardage and power. That being said I did build a 7" suppressed 300 BO that is comparable to an airgun with sub loads. It's cool, but I have it zeroed at 15 yards because I intend it to be a close quarters defense weapon only. If you want to play around with sub 308's you still can. Is it the most efficient cartridge for subs? Prob not. I don't think your goal should primarily be noise reduction. 1. Is what you want the rifle for in the first place; range, capacity, KE, 2. Is reducing your muzzle signature, because at night that's what gives away your location, 3. Followed by 3, not blowing out your eardrums if you use it in a hasty situation. Just my .02 |
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Posted: 11/26/2022 2:12:52 PM EDT
[#43]
I have a suppressed ruger 10/22 with thermal that is now my MOST used gun
I even started buying the federal defense 22's incase I run into something two legged (I have a .380/9mm/45 pistol on at all time too) I can switch it th work with an AR if needed. I use this thing all the time. I took out a coyote that walked up on me in a rainy foggy night with a few rounds of the hyper velocity meat eater rounds.  thermal optics for the homestead bugout, & SHTF Preparedness. FLIR scout tk & Bering Optics HOGSTER |
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Posted: 11/28/2022 11:45:16 AM EDT
[#44]
Subsonic is anything under 1100 fps, whether is 40 gr or 405 plus grain. 22 bolt action with standard velocity may be the most versatile. But a 4570 loaded with 405 coated lead bullets loaded with trailboss will thump anything.
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