I’ve been set up and listening to my local repeaters with a Kenwood TM-V71A and I’m happy with it for now. I’ll be able to set up Echolink once licensed but I have a feeling that I’m going to want to get in on the digital modes and would like some opinions on DSTAR vs Fusion vs DMR from the crew here.

ETA: my AO has options in all of the modes for me to choose from...

For Fusion, I would suggest a FT70.  Fairly inexpensive, easy to program from the keypad.

D-Star is my preferred digital mode, tho I have yet to try YSF.   I'll put my use case at the end of this post in order to give context to the rest of my comments.

Update:  It seems my information about DMR was obsolete.  Given that there's about zero DMR repeaters in my AO I haven't bothered to look into them since my initial purchase.  

I have an intense dislike for DMR.  If anyone uses it for simplex comms I've never heard them admit it.  And it's not hard to see why.  The DMR radios are all inexpensive and have very limited memories (i.e. channels) for remembering frequencies you use.  And they are used almost exclusively for repeater comms.  When I say repeater comms I mean joining a talk group and talking with people over the internet.  They're difficult to program from a computer and nearly impossible to program from the front panel.  The two virtues these business radios that have been bastardized for ham use have is that they are cheap, and they are usually very water resistant.  It's only in the past few years they've recognized the desires of the ham market and started manufacturing dual band models.  If the internet ever goes down these toy radios will be useless.

YSF and D-Star have a number of features in common, so I'll put them in one paragraph.  They can both be used to communicate over the internet to chat rooms, like DMR, though each protocol calls them by a different name.  After the voice is digitized the transmission bandwidth is used 3/4 for voice and 1/4 for other information - usually callsign, GPS location, and (on D-Star, don't know about YSF) a brief text message.  Side note:  DMR can also send GPS location with the voice, but no one I know has figured out (or even tried that I know of) how to get that info to show up for the receiving station.  YSF and D-Star HTs both have a "radar" screen.  On D-Star it shows the range and bearing the last transmission was received from, on YSF Group Mode shows range and bearing to everyone who's transmitted on your current frequency.  I suspect there is a time-out on Group Mode to eliminate stale data, but I can't say for certain.  Both protocols can send images over the air to a remote station, but D-Star requires a tablet/smartphone on each station to do this.  YSF requires a special mic with a camera in it and the image resolution is low, however it does show up directly on the radio screen.  Both have modes where the bandwidth is all voice, 1/4 data and 3/4 voice, and all data.

One YSF (Yaesu System Fusion) selling point, at least for the repeaters, was that the radios would automatically switch between digital and analog comms based on the last signal received.  Frankly, that's a con for me, rather than a pro. If I'm talking on a digital mode I'm wanting the features of the digital mode, and I'm not talking about digitized voice.  See the previous paragraph for examples.  Another reason I find this "feature" useless is because most state band plans have blocks of frequencies set aside for digital modes, as well as FM-Narrow and FM-Wide.  Fortunately, you can lock the radios into the preferred mode so they don't flip to analog on a whim.  Hopefully someone with more experience in YSF will come along and add details and corrections to this commentary as needed.

D-Star (Digital Smart Technologies for Amateur Radio) is the oldest and most mature (read feature rich) amateur digital protocol.  It's a bit of a pain to set up as you must register your callsign before it can be routed over the Internet.  D-Star uses the Internet for 3 different types of contact.  In addition to the chatrooms discussed above (called Reflectors on D-Star) you can do callsign routing.  This simply means that you put someone's callsign into the radio and your voice goes over the internet to the last repeater or hotspot they keyed up on.  I recommend against using this unless you know the recipient is on a hotspot because you are unable to listen to the repeater first to see if someone else is currently transmitting.  You can also use a remote repeater as if you were on it.  I've heard the local repeater linked to Scotland, among other places, which was entertaining though I would consider it common courtesy to return your local repeater to normal operations when you're done with it.  There's also a computer program you can use to create forms and the form data can be transferred over D-Star to a remote computer.

I'd also like to make honorable mention of M17.  This is a digital protocol that's under development and is entirely open source.  I'm eager to see how this progresses.

In closing, my use case for digital radio is primarily simplex.  The XYL and I cycle, and this lets us keep in contact while doing so.  If we get separated I can still see where they are, and vice versa.  Same for taking the g'kids to a large state park.  I'm trying to get them licensed as well and for the same reasons.

FT-70 has no GPS, if that matters to you.

I use Dstar and DMR. Dstar is easier to set up. DMR seems to have more variety. But I'll admit I haven't explored Dstar beyond just a few reflectors.

The radios are considerably cheaper, and right now available, for DMR. But usually they're Chinese and thus convoluted as fuck to program.

I guess I should just say they both have their ups and downs. Dstar is more popular locally. But we also have DMR too.

I don't know where you've come from here but this is almost entirely incorrect.  Perhaps it was when the only DMR radios you could buy were from the LMR section of Motorola?

I'm going to use the Anytone 878 as an example but any of the "top tier" chinese radios will be roughly the same.

One thing they definitely DO NOT have is a limited memory.  The 878 can store up to FOUR THOUSAND memory channels.  My yaesu radios can store perhaps a quarter of that.  Additionally, 200,000 contacts (which doesn't have an analogous feature in analog or YSF) and 250 zones.  Think of a Zone as a bank.  The premier YSF radio the FT3Dr has 99.

DMR is a learning curve, but once you understand it it makes sense.  If you want to compare programming analog channels to analog channels FFP, it's as easy (maybe easier - subjective) than any Yaesu radio.  Though once you get the hang of it you can likely get it done quicker on a yaesu radio.  Yes, programming DMR from scratch requires the use of a computer and the programming software.

If the internet ever goes down these radios will continue to function as FM analog radios, DMR simplex, and possibly local-only DMR repeater.  They do not become useless.

FPNI

Get the FT-70

My advice, as always, don't spend too much on an HT.  they are about as useful as this....



most new hams run out and buy an HT, and later, it ends up the least used rig in the shack.

sounds like you're already on the right track with the excellent TMV71A

for most hams, HF is the most interesting and fun.

Beat me to it, and I'll also happily admit I use DMR simplex. It outperforms analog simplex by a fair margin.

Anytone 878 is my primary HT and I use it on on a hotspot for about 15 minutes a week for one specific net. Other than that, it never sees the DMR online network.

Good to know.  I hadn't touched a DMR radio in a couple of years, I should have known they'd be updated by now.  Let me go update my post.

Good luck on your testing.  Mine is scheduled for the 13th.  Got my FNR today (the testing center wanted that done before the test).  I like digital in theory - but without a hotspot it will not live up to much hype for me.  Likewise, needing a hotspot seems to make it about as useful as a cell phone with Zello.

That said, pretty much all the most modern nicer HT have some sort of digital built in.  As such it seems like a nice bonus rather than a mandatory feature for me.

I think DMR is the wave of the future, as it's exploding in popularity and use everywhere.  At least in my area, there are alot more DMR repeaters than anything else.

The radios are great.  I've been very happy with a TYT MD-UV380.  It does everything I want it to do in analog, and of course digital and DMR.

DMR is great for simplex.  Works just fine.  Very good range.

Even this radio, being cheap, is durable and versatile.  Plenty of memory.  I find it user friendly, and mostly easily programmable from the front, once mastered.

I say mostly, because there are a few parameters you cannot change outside of the CPS.  But most of it actually can be done, and edited, from the front.

DMR is more complicated to program, but once you dedicate yourself to studying it and learning the ins and outs, and just write your own code plug like I did, it works very easily.  Lot of traffic from all over.

It takes a while to learn every subtlety and nuance to DMR, and probably none of us are really there 100% yet, but we're all getting there.

So far in my use/experience, chinese LMR radios kick ass.  They're doing everything I need them to do.

Once DMR is programmed and everything set it's easy. It's just the initial set up. Lots to do. Adding to a code plug and even building one is easy.

I think FUSION is the future.

YAESU practically giving repeaters away

It's idiot proof.

much more logical, especially for travelers, it automatically selects FM or fusion, no code plugs, no programming BS

DMR is for business band


. . . .at any rate, FM is king on VHF/ UHF

.

I am an Icom fanboy.  I don't say this lightly;  DSTAR is a solution looking for a problem.  I set my ID51a and 7100 up for Dstar.  I have a DV access point.  

I get it all set up, and say to myself, "ALL RIGHT! This will be awesome."

1st day,... listening to the 1A reflector (IIRC).  Hear 12 CQ CQ calls.  Most folks are on a 51a.  One person would be in Youngstown, Ohio in their basement.  Other person was in their basement in Charlotte, NC. Conversation would go like this:

"Wow!  It sounds like you are in the next room!" was what everyone was saying.  

NO $#!+ fellas!  You are talking over the internet!

"Well, my neighbor stopped over, and I wanted to show him ham radio..." was another common conversation starter ender.

Same thing heard days 2-8.    I unplugged it after that.


D* reflectors are worthless.  D* repeaters are marginally useful if you point one to a reflector.  D* with a digital access point is worthless if you cannot connect to a specific repeater.  I like echolink, because I can pop in to my old haunt repeater in Warrenton, VA,... from my PC or cell phone,... without a raspberry pi or $300 HT.

I see your points and all of you who aren't digital fans are 100% correct in that it isn't the same as analog. But it is fun.  You get to talk to folks round the world without worrying about band conditions. Does it replace HF or even VHF/UHF for me, no way. It's just another mode. I don't count the contacts either. Don't even keep a log of them. That's how much it isn't the same to me. It's more like what we are doing now.  Just a little more convenient in that I can watch tv and carry on a fluid convo without waiting for updates. With a dude in Russia.

But you can do all that, with echolink, for free.

D* missed its window.  They SHOULD have given it the ability to connect directly to any D* repeater, and made the reflectors an afterthought.  The SHOULD have made the reflectors based off of discussion topic, and NOT region.

Indeed, it IS just another mode.  A while back, I debated on whether DMR was worth the trouble, because it's mostly "talking on the internet".......

It's fun though, and useful.  Not terribly different from a linked repeater system.

Absolutely NOT the same as HF, not as....."technically meaningful"....no damn way would I ever log contacts from far off.  Most I'll do is load contact info from folks I talk to regularly, into my radio......that's right, I don't have the entire planet's ID database in my radio, nor do I want it.

Yeah, if someone in FL wants a QSL card from me, I'm gonna laugh at them.  I don't think anybody on DMR sees it that way either though.

It is alot of fun though, and way more traffic than analog, in my area.   One cheap 85 dollar radio and you're talking to everyone.  Can't beat that.

Yeah, Yaesu practically gave away YSF repeaters.  And they turned out to be cheaply made and prone to overheating.  Many folks bought them and then only used them in FM mode.

I'm hoping to see M17 take off.  The hardware and software are all open source from what I understand.  Now if the entire protocol can have the variety of applications that are available on D-Star developed (e.g. D-RATS, among others), and the cost of the hardware kept well below $300 for HTs I think we'll see that take off like a rocket.  Since it's all open source multiple manufacturers can make it, which means there'll be competition.

Edit in italics

@Drake

How did the test go?  Still looking for an HT?

Passed the tech test, studying for General!

I just picked up an IC-7100 tonight, so I have DSTAR covered, I may want to snag a DMR radio but I think I’m going to focus on general studying before I immerse myself too far in the digital modes.

Congrats, and good call.  General's not harder than Tech, just different.  DMR is weirdly complex, compared to analog, at the very first beginnings of understanding it.

One brain load at a time.  DMR's not hard once you do wrap your brain around it eventually though.

P25 master race

Repeaterbook

RepeaterBook.com can help you find out what type of digital repeaters are active in your area.

SharkRF openSPOT3

The openSPOT3 is a battery powered, portable, standalone digital radio internet gateway (hotspot) designed mainly for amateur radio. You can talk with others on digital radio networks by using an openSPOT3, Wi-Fi internet access, and your digital transceiver.

So for me, the only way of accessing any ham digital radio network is by using a hotspot. I find that C4FM is by far the simplest digital radio to use, but right now all I own are DMR radios.  YMMV

BTT.  Hope the General studying is going well.  Have you hooked an HF antenna up to the IC-7100 to hear what you can hear?