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Posted: 11/3/2019 12:14:30 PM EDT
I'm sure a lot of folks have a old cut-back single-shot shotgun. I did a "distressed" H&R 158 but I got to thinking.....It's pretty much a one-trick pony given it's cylinder bore.
 Attached FileWhat if you put a old-school Poly Choke on the end of it? You could then "make some hay" with regular shot as well as with buck-shot/slugs. You could even cut it back farther and still keep a around 18.50" total barrel/choke length by weld/pinning the inner collar on the barrel as long as the end of the peddles gets you your length if you use a non-vented Poly-Choke because the choke peddles go almost to the end of the outer collar. 
I was talking to my gunsmith about it and he did not think that it would be hard to do at all. At worse he might have to turn the barrel down to fit the choke's inner collar. I ordered one like in the pic and will report back if it's doable or not. |
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Posted: 11/3/2019 12:48:05 PM EDT
[#1]
In for more info
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Posted: 11/3/2019 2:16:55 PM EDT
[#2]
https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Is-there-any-tactical-SHTF-value-to-a-single-shot-12ga/1-378160/?page=18
While a polychoke makes sense on paper I think a better option is to just have it threaded for tubes. The only time I change the tube on my shotguns is late season when the doves tend to be flying higher and even then I'm more likely to just grab a box of high brass or the 12ga than I am to change the tube. My 20ga H&R from the above thread has a modified tube in it and it's done everything I've needed it to do; I've never used the full tube I bought for it. Side note, if you decide to buy a cartridge converter, buy the rifled style even though they cost more. The unrifled .38spl version I've got is heavy and not accurate enough to be worth the weight. |
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Posted: 11/4/2019 9:20:39 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Is-there-any-tactical-SHTF-value-to-a-single-shot-12ga/1-378160/?page=18 While a polychoke makes sense on paper I think a better option is to just have it threaded for tubes. The only time I change the tube on my shotguns is late season when the doves tend to be flying higher and even then I'm more likely to just grab a box of high brass or the 12ga than I am to change the tube. My 20ga H&R from the above thread has a modified tube in it and it's done everything I've needed it to do; I've never used the full tube I bought for it. Side note, if you decide to buy a cartridge converter, buy the rifled style even though they cost more. The unrifled .38spl version I've got is heavy and not accurate enough to be worth the weight. 
LOL....I traded a friend for a cut-back GP last week. 
 Attached File |
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Posted: 11/4/2019 10:16:56 AM EDT
[#4]
Very cool- I'd love to have one of those old Greeners. I've shot a couple of Martini Rifles, but never one of the police shotguns. Years ago I got offered one of the funky overseas versions for next to nothing. At the time they were near worthless as ammo, even back then, was all but impossible to come by. I haven't seen one in a long time but I seem to recall the gun being quite heavy.
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Posted: 11/4/2019 6:55:08 PM EDT
[#5]
I lîke those single shots, they're simple and clean and carry easy.
But if I have to default to a 'low-capacity' shotgun, one which is neither a pump nor a semi, it would be my old Stevens 311R, which I've had since the late '80s and have beaten the shit out of. It's never missed a beat. The 311R was an American-made, factory 'Riot' shotgun (what the 'R' stands for) with 18.5" double barrels. Add a classic butt-stock pack that holds at least 6 shells, and you're good to go ... whether in Mad-Max Landia or at the O.K. Corral. It was offered in 12ga mostly (what I have), with a more limited number in 20ga. Something of a collectors item now, you'll see 311Rs pop up on GunJoker infrequently. |
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Posted: 11/4/2019 8:10:55 PM EDT
[#6]
OK, I got the Poly-Choke in and it's very do-able......I mocked it up on the end of the barrel.
 Attached FileMy Smith can actually cut another 1.75" off the barrel and after the inner collar is permanently installed it will bring it out to 18.35" then 18.50" once the outer collar is screwed on. That will also provide more "meat" for him to turn-down and thread/pin the inner collar onto the barrel.....Heck, I won't even have to get a different bead. 
 Attached File |
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Posted: 11/6/2019 6:01:39 PM EDT
[#7]
Choke is over rated for most shooters.
Improved and call it a day. |
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Posted: 11/6/2019 6:25:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Choke is over rated for most shooters. Improved and call it a day. I took the barrel/choke to my gunsmith today, he did the measurements, and everything is GTG so the project is on. It could be next week, next month, or better before I get it back (he's always backed-up) but the way it looks it will be a pretty slick finished product. I'll end up with about $210.00 total in the project counting the cost of the donor shotgun. |
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Posted: 11/9/2019 2:26:30 PM EDT
[#9]
The Polychoke is a neat idea. I took out the spacer between the foreend and the receiver on mine, which allows it to break down easily, though it may come apart too easily if you aren't careful when you go to reload it.
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Posted: 11/9/2019 3:05:29 PM EDT
[#10]
Savage had an over under with 12ga under a .308 barrel.
It was made by Valmet for Savage, model 2400 I believe. I always thought it would be a perfect woodland deer rifle. |
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Posted: 11/10/2019 12:52:23 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Polychoke is a neat idea. I took out the spacer between the foreend and the receiver on mine, which allows it to break down easily, though it may come apart too easily if you aren't careful when you go to reload it. They used to be metal but they changed them to plastic in the 70s. They will get loose as the screws that hold them on hog out the holes over time. Easy fix though. |
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Posted: 11/12/2019 12:08:26 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Savage had an over under with 12ga under a .308 barrel. It was made by Valmet for Savage, model 2400 I believe. I always thought it would be a perfect woodland deer rifle. Just too useful of a firearm for a mere $5 tax. (Unless you do the chop yourself.) |
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Posted: 11/12/2019 10:09:25 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Savage had an over under with 12ga under a .308 barrel. It was made by Valmet for Savage, model 2400 I believe. I always thought it would be a perfect woodland deer rifle. Some of the much older, smaller caliber, and so much lighter, Savage combo guns might not suffer from being overweight, but they, being older, bring a premium price on account of scarcity. There was a bewildering number of combinations of such Savage firearms over the years, and I suggest some caution in buying any of the very old models, lest essential spare parts no longer be available. Having experimented with such double-barrel rifle/shotgun firearms ( I also own a SA .22 RF/.410 combo unit) I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that they just don't point as well/quickly as the usual hunter requires. The SA unit is underpowered for what it needs to be. In both cases (SA and Savage) augmenting the primitive iron sights of both firearms with optics is problematic, and expensive. One will need to [I[instantly[/I] discard any sort of optics to use the shotgun barrel, and old-fashioned tilt-away scope mounts just aren't easily available. Perhaps another sort of modern optic might be useful, but unless one was fortunate enough to obtain the OEM Picatiney/Weaver accessory rails for such rifles, it becomes a gunsmithing "experience" in adapting a rail to the available fitments on both firearms. There may be a small niche for dual-barreled firearms. I don't propose what it might be, but I certainly think that the firearm's being lightweight, and pointable/handy, as well as being configured to accept modern optics might be of some use. |
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Posted: 11/13/2019 11:00:29 AM EDT
[#14]
About the only useful Savage combo rifle I ever saw was a old plastic stocked .22lr over .410 with the button barrel selector on the side of the receiver. A old trapper had one and it would shoot POA with both barrels.
He was smart and soldered the elevator to the sight so it would not move because the .22 barrel on the older ones was so narrow that the elevator would tilt to one side or the other and often just fall out. Like this one. 
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Posted: 11/13/2019 5:38:15 PM EDT
[#15]
I got the barrel back this morning. Here is the finished product.
 Attached FileI decided to keep the barrel a tad over 18" so with the Poly-Choke installed total barrel length was 19.50". I took down to my range and test fired it with #5 shot and buck shot......It was eating a turkey head/neck target up at 30 yards on full, I opened it up to cyl and used some Federal flight control 00 buck and it turned in a respectable performance using the same target/distance. I put another target up and used a 3" 2X6 duplex turkey load on full and at 40 yards Mr. Turkey would still have a rough time of it. I think I have a winner.
As it sits the whole project including the donor shotgun/smith work cost me $210.00. |
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Posted: 11/13/2019 5:49:27 PM EDT
[#16]
Cool!
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Posted: 11/13/2019 6:39:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Where did you get the polychoke at?
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Posted: 11/13/2019 6:46:00 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where did you get the polychoke at? |
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Posted: 11/13/2019 6:52:31 PM EDT
[#19]
The ole Gumby chokes have merit. Which a 2 second twist and you are rechoked. Very flexible.
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Posted: 11/13/2019 7:29:50 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a Savage Model 24, with 12 Ga over .223. I honestly can't recommend it, or anything much like it. It's fairly heavy, and does not point well. It is not "lively" in the user's hands. A .308 barrel instead of the lighter .223 bbl would only make things worse, IMHO. Some of the much older, smaller caliber, and so much lighter, Savage combo guns might not suffer from being overweight, but they, being older, bring a premium price on account of scarcity. There was a bewildering number of combinations of such Savage firearms over the years, and I suggest some caution in buying any of the very old models, lest essential spare parts no longer be available. Having experimented with such double-barrel rifle/shotgun firearms ( I also own a SA .22 RF/.410 combo unit) I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that they just don't point as well/quickly as the usual hunter requires. The SA unit is underpowered for what it needs to be. In both cases (SA and Savage) augmenting the primitive iron sights of both firearms with optics is problematic, and expensive. One will need to [I[instantly[/I] discard any sort of optics to use the shotgun barrel, and old-fashioned tilt-away scope mounts just aren't easily available. Perhaps another sort of modern optic might be useful, but unless one was fortunate enough to obtain the OEM Picatiney/Weaver accessory rails for such rifles, it becomes a gunsmithing "experience" in adapting a rail to the available fitments on both firearms. There may be a small niche for dual-barreled firearms. I don't propose what it might be, but I certainly think that the firearm's being lightweight, and pointable/handy, as well as being configured to accept modern optics might be of some use. |
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Posted: 11/13/2019 8:52:27 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The ole Gumby chokes have merit. Which a 2 second twist and you are rechoked. Very flexible. |
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Posted: 11/13/2019 10:57:11 PM EDT
[#22]
I agree if you are "in a survival situation" you would not need three or four seperate pieces of crap like tubes and a wrench to keep track of would you ?
I like the concept ! It is inexpensive and versital, it could harvest food or defend you equally. It is not The Best in either role , but it is simple and reliable . For game I'd rather have a .22 unless I was shooting ducks . I think it would really shine if it was bobbed to about 12 inches , then it could be slug over the shoulder and mostly out of the way . It only holds one round , but there is something to be said for one shot . Because now there IS NO SECOND SHOT , duhh , you need to make it count ! Also with one shot nobody will be able to locate where the noise came from . 
I'd put a ghost ring sight on it ...... and cut down length of pull to 13 inches . It looks like a concept that would appeal to a lot of folks who know nothing about firearms . As in " what's safer than a single shot ".  I like your thinking outside the box . |
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Posted: 11/13/2019 11:33:53 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ha!....Ever try to knock a squirrel out of the top of a 80'+ Hickory with #5 shot? I took the barrel/choke to my gunsmith today, he did the measurements, and everything is GTG so the project is on. It could be next week, next month, or better before I get it back (he's always backed-up) but the way it looks it will be a pretty slick finished product. I'll end up with about $210.00 total in the project counting the cost of the donor shotgun. I meant to say modified, not cylinder. But I still stand by my statement, choke is overrated for most folks. |
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Posted: 11/15/2019 12:31:54 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I miss typed. I meant to say modified, not cylinder. But I still stand by my statement, choke is overrated for most folks. |
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Posted: 11/15/2019 10:03:57 PM EDT
[#25]
I think OP has possibly made a very useful mod to his inexpensive shotgun, provided that OP sees some definite differentiation in patterns. Such differentiation in patterns will tell the tale whether or not the conversion was entirely successful. OP needs to do some pattern tests to ascertain the limits and effectiveness of this conversion.
I did similar on almost the identical SG, but I had a gunsmith who was capable of counter-boring the original SG barrel, so as to allow commonly available screw-in Remington choke tubes. This procedure is more exacting, and more expensive, initially. It has worked well. With this conversion, changing patterns is not so quick/easy, but, in my case, entirely predictable and repeatable; What matters most in such conversions is whether or not the External choke device, as used by the OP, or an counterbored screw-in choke, as was my choice, is a suitable choice. By suitable choice, I mean that any choke device in any SG barrel have a very smooth gradient between the choke tube (or device's) initial (leading edge) and the barrel's bore. IOW, the choke/device's leading edge should have, ideally, zero difference with the bore of the SG barrel. A significant difference between the INITIAL ID of the device/choke tube and the IDof the SG barrel will always be ruinous as to patterns. I wish the OP well! |
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Posted: 11/16/2019 9:05:53 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think OP has possibly made a very useful mod to his inexpensive shotgun, provided that OP sees some definite differentiation in patterns. Such differentiation in patterns will tell the tale whether or not the conversion was entirely successful. OP needs to do some pattern tests to ascertain the limits and effectiveness of this conversion. I did similar on almost the identical SG, but I had a gunsmith who was capable of counter-boring the original SG barrel, so as to allow commonly available screw-in Remington choke tubes. This procedure is more exacting, and more expensive, initially. It has worked well. With this conversion, changing patterns is not so quick/easy, but, in my case, entirely predictable and repeatable; What matters most in such conversions is whether or not the External choke device, as used by the OP, or an counterbored screw-in choke, as was my choice, is a suitable choice. By suitable choice, I mean that any choke device in any SG barrel have a very smooth gradient between the choke tube (or device's) initial (leading edge) and the barrel's bore. IOW, the choke/device's leading edge should have, ideally, zero difference with the bore of the SG barrel. A significant difference between the INITIAL ID of the device/choke tube and the IDof the SG barrel will always be ruinous as to patterns. I wish the OP well! I did not mess with the Modified setting as it does not really come into play for my intended use. And yes, when my gunsmith did the initial measurements to see if it would work, he accounted for the proper transition from barrel to choke body and commented on same.....It was not his first rodeo.
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Posted: 11/16/2019 9:47:49 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well yeah, I did pattern it as I related in a previous post in this thread......GTG. I did not mess with the Modified setting as it does not really come into play for my intended use. And yes, when my gunsmith did the initial measurements to see if it would work, he accounted for the proper transition from barrel to choke body and commented on same.....It was not his first rodeo. |
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Posted: 11/16/2019 10:32:18 AM EDT
[#28]
What’s a fair price for an old rough H&R Topper 88?
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Posted: 11/16/2019 11:06:00 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What’s a fair price for an old rough H&R Topper 88? If you are thinking about buying a .357 or .44 barrel for it good luck, they've gotten stupid expensive now that they're no longer made. Only fit a .357 or .44 barrels on the later SB1 shotgun receivers. Do not put any other rifled barrel on a shotgun receiver, they are softer and won't handle it; the SB2 receivers are the harder steel rifle receivers. |
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Posted: 11/16/2019 1:30:47 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Honestly, it's hard to say as prices seem to be all over the place since they quit making them but they've gotten ridiculous (gunbroker is showing them from $125 to over $200- 20ga always seems to be higher). In unmolested good shape I wouldn't pay more than $150 FTF, old and rough maybe $50 if I really wanted it and thought I could do something with it. They are supposedly a PITA to reassemble so I've never opened either of mine up. Look for the off brands as well, even the relabeled New England Firearms seem to go for less than one stamped H&R. They are a really, handy little gun but it has to be something you really want to make them worthwhile these days with cheap new pumps going for under $150 and Turkish single shots around $100. If you are thinking about buying a .357 or .44 barrel for it good luck, they've gotten stupid expensive now that they're no longer made. Only fit a .357 or .44 barrels on the later SB1 shotgun receivers. Do not put any other rifled barrel on a shotgun receiver, they are softer and won't handle it; the SB2 receivers are the harder steel rifle receivers. ETA and then promptly lost the fore arm screw somewhere in my black hole of a garage. Add $8 for a screw from Numrich |
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Posted: 11/16/2019 4:14:09 PM EDT
[#31]
Cartridge conversions for most firearms: http://mcaceak.com/products.html
I have some of their cartridge adaptors, and they function as claimed. No experience with the Inserts. Disclaimer: no financial interest. |
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Posted: 11/17/2019 1:32:58 PM EDT
[#32]
I actually had a Topper 158 with a poly choke on it. I may have happened upon a to short barrel and I had a polynchoke laying around, so it worked out.
The fore end stud broke off the barrel on a shooting trip, so I left it in the trunk of my car over night to take to a smith then next day. Crazy enough, my car got broke into that night. I am sure the forend got duct taped back on the barrel and it’s in some meth house somewhere. Previous owner had carved “bladder spladder” into the stock... |
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Posted: 2/1/2020 7:29:25 PM EDT
[#33]
Nice project!
These are my two singles, a 12 on top is mine and the 20 gauge on bottom I modded for my step daughter into her zombie gun.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/1/2020 8:51:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Something very important to consider. Hunting SGs are mostly intended for shooting birds, and that being the case, the longer the barrel, the better.
It's all well and good to shorten SG barrels, but doing so limits their effectiveness on flying birds. BTW, some of these older shotguns, in decent, unmolested conditions, might be worth more to a collector than one might first think. Maybe looking-around at current prices of such SGs might be worthwhile, before modifying them. YMMV. |
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Posted: 2/1/2020 10:31:34 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Something very important to consider. Hunting SGs are mostly intended for shooting birds, and that being the case, the longer the barrel, the better. It's all well and good to shorten SG barrels, but doing so without replacing the choke limits their effectiveness on flying birds. BTW, some of these older shotguns, in decent, unmolested conditions, might be worth more to a collector than one might first think. Maybe looking-around at current prices of such SGs might be worthwhile, before modifying them. YMMV.
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Posted: 2/2/2020 5:45:52 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Is-there-any-tactical-SHTF-value-to-a-single-shot-12ga/1-378160/?page=18 While a polychoke makes sense on paper I think a better option is to just have it threaded for tubes. The only time I change the tube on my shotguns is late season when the doves tend to be flying higher and even then I'm more likely to just grab a box of high brass or the 12ga than I am to change the tube. My 20ga H&R from the above thread has a modified tube in it and it's done everything I've needed it to do; I've never used the full tube I bought for it. Side note, if you decide to buy a cartridge converter, buy the rifled style even though they cost more. The unrifled .38spl version I've got is heavy and not accurate enough to be worth the weight. I tried out the unrifled Short Lane and they suck. |
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Posted: 2/2/2020 10:06:46 AM EDT
[#37]
I picked up a NEF single shot 12 gauge a few years ago after watching the below video.
The gun kicks like a mule. The ergonomics of the stock are horrible. With a thick Carhartt Jacket the recoil is tolerable with a T-Shirt it's awful! That being said - there's a seller on Gunbroker that threads shotgun barrels for removable chokes. Price seems fair @ $135. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/853652391  Using the H&R 12GA for a Muzzeloader |
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Posted: 2/2/2020 11:09:21 AM EDT
[#38]
20GA is my go to every day & SHTF gun around the homestead.
Single shot for normal times, but if things were to ever get bad I will step up to the pump with my 1911 as backup. |
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Posted: 2/3/2020 7:36:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I got the barrel back this morning. Here is the finished product. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/88145/DSCN9430__2__JPG-1159731.JPG I decided to keep the barrel a tad over 18" so with the Poly-Choke installed total barrel length was 19.50". I took down to my range and test fired it with #5 shot and buck shot......It was eating a turkey head/neck target up at 30 yards on full, I opened it up to cyl and used some Federal flight control 00 buck and it turned in a respectable performance using the same target/distance. I put another target up and used a 3" 2X6 duplex turkey load on full and at 40 yards Mr. Turkey would still have a rough time of it. I think I have a winner.
As it sits the whole project including the donor shotgun/smith work cost me $210.00. |
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