User Panel
Why would you build a vegetable garden in the back of your head?????
|
|
Quoted:
I've had the idea of building a vegetable garden in the back of my head for a few months now, and when the opportunity presented itself yesterday, I jumped on it. Plus- it was something my boys have been excited about for a couple weeks now, so I wanted to do it with them. The box is a very basic 4'x8' that is roughly 10" in soil depth. Soil is roughly 24 cu.ft. of composted mulch and 6 cu.ft of Happy Frog Soil Conditioner. First, a few pictures. Then I've got some questions. https://preview.ibb.co/cb6Qq0/20181104-130801.jpg https://preview.ibb.co/jk2WV0/20181104-164428.jpg https://preview.ibb.co/cNKZiL/20181104-170624.jpg The box gets full sun from ~10AM through 5PM. I ran 1/2" flexible pipe to the box (seen as a T coming up into the lower right corner of the box in the above picture) and it is on a small electronically timed controller. My intention was to follow our local planting advisory from the University or Arizona and plant only crops that are called out for in that document. My plans for the current crop was carrots, onions, broccoli, and lettuce. If I can squeeze more in the 4x8 space, I'd like to add in Peas. Questions: The 1/2" tubing has a natural curl to it as a result of its original coiling. Is there a way to get this stuff to lay flat? Will the sun naturally warm it and drag it down? Should I use a heat gun? The drip irrigation nozzles I bought at 1 gph. Is that appropriate for the entire bed, or should they be different depending on the vegetable? Should the nozzles be equally spaced throughout the bed in order to uniformly saturate the entire bed, or should they be placed over where the seeds/crop are coming out of the soil? When I sow seeds, should I make a small gully the length of the bed and scatter the seeds equally throughout it, or place them in small piles in increments called out on the seed packet? Should I irrigate daily, or less frequently but for more time? The guy at the nursery assured me that composted mulch should make up the majority of my bed. Most of what I've read on the internet calls for composted manure, not mulch. Did I go wrong here? Should I add something other than the composted mulch and happy frog amendment? I'm sure I have many more questions, but these should get me at least started. View Quote I use 1/4 tubing to run water to each dripper. Much more flexibility and precision. You can run that 1/2 tubing down the length, and then tap into it with the smaller lines. The merit of drip irrigation is that it places the water exactly into the rootball, minimizing water usage, so I would recommend not irrigating the entire bed. That will also keep weeds down. The only time I "saturate" is with my carrot bed, which I broadcast sow and then coil 1/4 soaker line throughout that bed for good coverage. I water daily. I can't imagine less than that in Arizona. Duration varies through the season, but usually 1/2 hr is okay. When things start really getting hot, then I can hit it with a hose or just do a manual cycle on that zone of my irrigation system. I don't know about the mulch/manure question. You'll find out pretty quickly if what you have is going to work. I've built my beds up painstakingly over the years with organic material of many kinds, turning them slowly from crap (bentonite) into something worthwhile and black. At this point I throw a couple bags of cheap composted cow manure (the $1.50 bags, really not fancy) into the beds that have had heavy feeders planted the previous year and call it good. Sometimes I bag the lawn clippings and sprinkle it lightly in the beds and let it dry; the beds get turned over eventually somewhere between harvest and planting. Bottom line: soil improvement is a process, and the incremental approach works. Don't drive yourself crazy the first year. Just getting the beds placed in the yard and set up and your initial garden planted is a WIN. Every location has its idiosyncracies, and by observation you will figure it all out. You should have room for peas. They go up a trellis/fence/net and you can put them along one bed edge; their roots shouldn't compete with the others' there. But get the peas in early; they scald easily. A sunshade helps my pea harvest tremendously, and allows it to keep going further into the growing season. Pole green beans -- same bed-edge/trellis comment as for the peas. I get a lot more beans per foot planted than I do for peas. |
|
The university publications will include watering instruction. Those drippers are more than enough, you'll adjust the soil moisture by adjusting the timer. Look at university publications for advice on putting the soil together. I would have used a mixture of top soil, manure, sand. Maybe a little perlite. Test the soil to determine whether it needs to be amended to adjust pH, you can get a kit at any store that sells gardening supplies.
Lay the tubing out, it will relax in the hot Sun down there. |
|
Quoted: Cool project. I use 1/4 tubing to run water to each dripper. Much more flexibility and precision. You can run that 1/2 tubing down the length, and then tap into it with the smaller lines. The merit of drip irrigation is that it places the water exactly into the rootball, minimizing water usage, so I would recommend not irrigating the entire bed. That will also keep weeds down. The only time I "saturate" is with my carrot bed, which I broadcast sow and then coil 1/4 soaker line throughout that bed for good coverage. I water daily. I can't imagine less than that in Arizona. Duration varies through the season, but usually 1/2 hr is okay. When things start really getting hot, then I can hit it with a hose or just do a manual cycle on that zone of my irrigation system. I don't know about the mulch/manure question. You'll find out pretty quickly if what you have is going to work. I've built my beds up painstakingly over the years with organic material of many kinds, turning them slowly from crap (bentonite) into something worthwhile and black. At this point I throw a couple bags of cheap composted cow manure (the $1.50 bags, really not fancy) into the beds that have had heavy feeders planted the previous year and call it good. Sometimes I bag the lawn clippings and sprinkle it lightly in the beds and let it dry; the beds get turned over eventually somewhere between harvest and planting. Bottom line: soil improvement is a process, and the incremental approach works. Don't drive yourself crazy the first year. Just getting the beds placed in the yard and set up and your initial garden planted is a WIN. Every location has its idiosyncracies, and by observation you will figure it all out. You should have room for peas. They go up a trellis/fence/net and you can put them along one bed edge; their roots shouldn't compete with the others' there. But get the peas in early; they scald easily. A sunshade helps my pea harvest tremendously, and allows it to keep going further into the growing season. Pole green beans -- same bed-edge/trellis comment as for the peas. I get a lot more beans per foot planted than I do for peas. View Quote |
|
It's OK to plant dense rows. Just thin them per the seed packet instructions keeping the stronger plants.
Your plants are a yellow green which means fertilize. Use some fish emulsion or some 10-10-10. Don't overdo it. Also don't over water. Stick your finger in the soil. If it's moist, you're good. Too much water encourages shallow roots and it can leech nutrients from the soil. Mulch isn't a great growing media. Next season try some garden soil mixed with composted manure. Look at your plants every day. Turn the leaves over looking for infestation. Hand pick the bugs if you can, or try a little mild soapy water spray. Good luck! |
|
I think my pea vines flower when they’re a foot or two tall. You should be close. Some thinning now would make sense if you overplanted
I pick lettuce leaves from the outside rather than pulling the entire plant. You should be GTG. Carrots are done when they’re done. Yours look fine but immature. |
|
Does your composted mulch still have a lot of wood chips in it? Looks like it from the pictures. That is poor growing media as it will lock up nitrogen and cause plants to yellow.
|
|
OP your plants need more nitrogen. (based on the pics before the carrot plant in your hand)
You have wood chips on that garden, and although I have not read closely, I'm guessing you are watering. As the wood chips rot, they tie up the nitrogen in the top layers of soil, and therefore it is not available to your plants. So...you need to fertilize with a VERY MILD solution of something like Miracle Grow, or the equivalent. NOTICE...I said VERY MILD. That's important. If you are new to gardening, don't make the mistake of thinking "if a little fertilizer is good, more must be better." it's not better. You can kill plants with too much. Mix it half of what the box says. Three days later, look again. Go easy with it. ETA: Most carrots are about 80 days to maturity from planting. So at 57 days, you have a while to go. Lettuce: You want young, tender leaves. Start pinching off the mature leaves now and see how they are. they should be tender and sweet, not tough or bitter. You don't pull the whole lettuce plant (if you planted leaf lettuce. Head lettuce is different.) Peas...what has your weather been like? What temperatures? Have you seen blooms? Are there insects to pollinate the blooms? (don't know where you are in AZ, and don't know your climate for gardening, but peas like cool "spring-like" temps. |
|
Quoted:
Does your composted mulch still have a lot of wood chips in it? Looks like it from the pictures. That is poor growing media as it will lock up nitrogen and cause plants to yellow. View Quote |
|
1-Peas are a little paler(or sometimes just a "different" ) green than some other crops. Your peas look good to me. Yes, the pods follow the blooms.
2-Those onions do look a little spindly. See #4, below. 3-That lettuce color looks pretty good overall. A tiny hair darker green wouldn't hurt it, but spring lettuce is usually a lighter green, depending on the variety. I would keep doing what you're doing and take that lettuce as a good job. 4-If I'm seeing the photo right, you may be overwatering just a tiny bit. (It may not be as wet as it looks to me. I want so badly to reach in the screen and feel that growing media. ) You don't want your soil to dry out to the point that plants wilt, but the plants don't need to be in wet soil all the time. That may be part of the trouble you're having. Maybe skip a day watering (or wait a day longer between waterings) and watch it closely and see what happens. Especially with root crops, you don't want the roots too wet. You have a conundrum. Lettuce loves more water. But your onions and carrots cannot have "wet feet" and do well. Drainage is key for them. So don't back off too much. But maybe just a tad bit. Watch carefully and take everything I'm saying as from a gardener who has never grown anything in your climate. These are general thoughts, so keep that foremost in mind. If you stick your finger down in the middle to bottom of that soil, is it wet? |
|
Quoted:
1-Peas are a little paler(or sometimes just a "different" ) green than some other crops. Your peas look good to me. Yes, the pods follow the blooms. 2-Those onions do look a little spindly. See #4, below. 3-That lettuce color looks pretty good overall. A tiny hair darker green wouldn't hurt it, but spring lettuce is usually a lighter green, depending on the variety. I would keep doing what you're doing and take that lettuce as a good job. 4-If I'm seeing the photo right, you may be overwatering just a tiny bit. (It may not be as wet as it looks to me. I want so badly to reach in the screen and feel that growing media. ) You don't want your soil to dry out to the point that plants wilt, but the plants don't need to be in wet soil all the time. That may be part of the trouble you're having. Maybe skip a day watering (or wait a day longer between waterings) and watch it closely and see what happens. Especially with root crops, you don't want the roots too wet. You have a conundrum. Lettuce loves more water. But your onions and carrots cannot have "wet feet" and do well. Drainage is key for them. So don't back off too much. But maybe just a tad bit. Watch carefully and take everything I'm saying as from a gardener who has never grown anything in your climate. These are general thoughts, so keep that foremost in mind. If you stick your finger down in the middle to bottom of that soil, is it wet? View Quote The peas have seemed to "brighten" a bit since the most recent fertilizing. The onions look like sad weeds. I'm just going to let them do their thing and see how it turns out. If I understand correctly, onions can take quite some time to grow to full maturity? I've continued to eat the lettuce. It's really good and it's also the first time the boys have ever eaten lettuce- I speculate it's the pride in knowing they grew it, which is really cool. The photo of the soil in my hand is a bit misleading- it was taken very shortly after watering in the fertilizer. It does not usually look that moist. On a normal day without me hand watering, if I dig about 4-5 inches down, the soil is cool and wet, but not sticky or muddy. I can certainly try and alter the watering schedule. As it is now, the full system waters for 20 minutes every morning. I can set it to only water every other day. Or perhaps just start to turn the time down progressively? |
|
OP, I can’t grow onions to save my life so no advice there.
As far as the carrots, you will need a lot more top green growth before the roots really get going. Remember that the carrot is a biennial, and it will grow and store a lot of energy in the root before it can flower the second year. It needs a lush green top to make a lot of sugars that are then stored as starch in the roots. I think you just need to give it more time in addition to being careful about fertilizer as already noted. 57 days? Seems on the short side unless they want spindly little carrots. |
|
Quoted: Thanks for the thoughtful feedback, KWS (and everyone that has posted thus far!). The peas have seemed to "brighten" a bit since the most recent fertilizing. The onions look like sad weeds. I'm just going to let them do their thing and see how it turns out. If I understand correctly, onions can take quite some time to grow to full maturity? I've continued to eat the lettuce. It's really good and it's also the first time the boys have ever eaten lettuce- I speculate it's the pride in knowing they grew it, which is really cool. The photo of the soil in my hand is a bit misleading- it was taken very shortly after watering in the fertilizer. It does not usually look that moist. On a normal day without me hand watering, if I dig about 4-5 inches down, the soil is cool and wet, but not sticky or muddy. I can certainly try and alter the watering schedule. As it is now, the full system waters for 20 minutes every morning. I can set it to only water every other day. Or perhaps just start to turn the time down progressively? View Quote Now then....that's in a greenhouse, or here in Kentucky, and works in all regions where I have ever functioned as a gardener. But I have NOT functioned as a gardener in the desert southwest. Just sayin. If letting the soil get a little dryer before you water again would cause your plants to get too hot or stressed, don't do it. But my guess is that they won't, and may well benefit. |
|
RE the onions: if they don't develop, you still get scallions. The majority of the onions I plant get used that way.
|
|
So over the last few days, I've noticed a tinge of green starting to creep over the bed (mostly by the peas and onions). I looked this morning and sure enough there is green mold starting to form on some of the surface wood chips.
Last week, at the suggestion of some in this thread, I turned back the watering to every other day for 20 minutes instead of every day at 20 minutes. Should I wait and see at the new watering cycle if the mold goes away on its own? Should I rotate that top layer so it does not get sunlight while it dries out? Or should I attempt to remove it? |
|
I'd bet its algae or moss over mold. I'd say a moisture meter may be a good investment for you. Plants need a wet dry cycle for proper nutrient exchange.
ETA. Green growth is harmless. Mold doesn't grow in sunlight. (AFAIK) |
|
I think you will be okay. If it's JUST mold on the growing media, it won't hurt anything. If you hate the looks of it, rake it away and dispose of it.
Glad you cut back on the watering some |
|
when the soils water level is right you will be able to create a clump that will crumble easily. besides that it would require a moisture sensor
|
|
Also consider https://extension.arizona.edu/.
Whether you want to become a Master Gardener or just want a weed identified, a great local resource for you. |
|
Quoted:
I've pretty much left the garden alone with just the occasional look in on it from time to time. I went out just now and pulled the smallest of the carrot stalks and, lo and behold, my carrots are starting to carrot! I'm excited to see that it's actually happening (I'm not sure what I thought was going to happen when you plant a carrot seed), but I'm more thrilled with how excited my boys will be tomorrow morning when they see this! https://i.imgur.com/JF1vdvXh.jpg View Quote I will now shut up about my philosophy of life, but I think it's cool that you're bringing the kids into it. They will never forget, I guarantee it. |
|
Quoted:
Thank god for bagged salad at the grocery store... This past weekend we had a few people over for ribs (sous vide for 3 days) and I was really hoping to harvest some of the lettuce for a salad. Admittedly it was definitely "past" its projected harvest dates, but I was going to discard most of the outter leaves and just use the inner parts. The boys and I took a bunch in the house to wash the leaves and that's when we found them: https://i.imgur.com/d6Cvnlmh.jpg https://i.imgur.com/vZUF5mwh.jpg https://i.imgur.com/HR44w2fh.jpg Almost every head of lettuce was infested with these little guys. They look like aphids, but I did not think they came black in color? Anyway, we trashed the whole harvest. My big questions are: 1) How can I avoid this issue in the future? I'm not opposed to using some form of insecticide, I'm just not familiar with the types and their use. 2) I have removed all of the rows of lettuce from my vegetable bed and am preparing to start my next cycle of crops (green beans, cucumber, and melon) in that area. Is there something I should treat the soil with to kill any of these little guys that are living within it so I don't immediately infest those new crops? 3) Once soil has been "grown in" for lack of a better phrase, is there something special I should do with it to prepare it for planting something else there? Fertilize, tilling, amendments? Thanks all! View Quote Are they ONLY on the lettuce? You actually don't need to do anything to the soil proper. You have mulch, if I remember right, so I would lightly rake the top layer of mulch to disrupt anything hiding in there (insect larvae I mean) but I doubt you have much. You will fertilize same as usual when you start to grow again. One question... Have you been eating regularly out of the garden, or had it been sitting there for a while before you went out to get this last bit of lettuce? Aphids are not particularly hard to control but they can be a pita. You have a lot of approaches. Everything from introduction of beneficial insects to the environment, to a hard spray of water (this is temporary but does discourage them) to insecticidal soap (probably your least chemically dangerous choice) to the bigger guns. My advice would be to start fresh and have some soap ready for next year. Beware...soap is not "if a little is good more is better." You can burn your plants with soap. I think, also, that thinning the lettuce and not letting it stand there too long will be of benefit to you. This is a "don't attract them in the first place" method that may or may not work. I don't know your growing climate as I've said before, but if they arrived ONLY after the lettuce was up and on its last legs, it may be that you can do a fair bit of insect control by just staying on top of the garden cleaning, etc. This is beneficial in a lot of ways, mainly by interrupting the pest's reproductive cycle by removing them and/or depriving them of what they need when they need it. This style of gardening is OVERWHELMINGLY SPECIFIC to the climate and microclimate where you garden. What will work for one will likely not work for the neighbor across town with slightly more shade or a windier spot, and vice-versa. I'm suggesting it because it's good practice anyway, and because your pests seem to have come right at the end of the viable garden life of the lettuce. If you search the web, you will find gazillions of articles and posts on aphid control. Hard to know what's decent and what's not. I used to suggest Gardenweb without fail, but Houzz bought them and they've messed up the site. I would suggest at least looking at the advice of your state's extension service, and finding out what's working best in your climate. They will default to chemical control, probably, but there will be good information about time of year, damage to crops, etc. It will be good learning. Kitties |
|
OP, if you haven't considered it already, in the next growing season, you might consider starting a small compost operation. You can do this with something as simple as a smallish metal trash can set over to the side, out of sight. It doesn't have to be a big expensive deal.
It might be a really nice adjunct to the garden for your kids, and you could compost not only the garden trimmings/trash at the end of each growing cycle, but veggie scraps from the kitchen as well. Then your little ones get to see the food they grew (and even what you bought at the grocery and did not eat) return to the earth as the best fertilizer available on the planet. Black gold. Back Yard Science. |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.