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Link Posted: 5/24/2019 3:30:31 PM EDT
p90
Link Posted: 5/26/2019 3:05:40 PM EDT
Something like the Ruger 9mm carbine for the younger ones and AR for the adult.
If you carry Glock sidearms you only have two magazine styles, one for rifle and one for pistol/carbine.
These would also be easier calibers to scrounge ammo and mags for as they are both pretty common.
Link Posted: 6/1/2019 7:53:41 AM EDT
AR15s and SigPros.
Link Posted: 6/4/2019 2:13:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/6/2019 9:08:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2019 9:08:53 PM EDT by tveddy]
TLDR
Kids aren’t that tough. Can probably just shoot them with a regular 9mm pistol
Link Posted: 6/8/2019 2:13:29 AM EDT
I'm going through the same thing with my 13 year old daughter.

As of a year ago she couldn't shoulder a 16"AR. She also want comfortable with the blast and noise. Recoil-wise, it didn't bother her.

I think the problem with blow back PCC is they have just as much heft and recoil as ARs.

At this point i think I'd rather have her shooting a 10-22 she can actually hit stuff with, than a rifle she's uncomfortable with.
Link Posted: 6/9/2019 12:37:19 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By BUCK1911:

This.
AR15 in 556 and glock 19s all around.
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Link Posted: 6/9/2019 7:55:25 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By TobyLazur:
I'm going through the same thing with my 13 year old daughter.

As of a year ago she couldn't shoulder a 16"AR. She also want comfortable with the blast and noise. Recoil-wise, it didn't bother her.

I think the problem with blow back PCC is they have just as much heft and recoil as ARs.

At this point i think I'd rather have her shooting a 10-22 she can actually hit stuff with, than a rifle she's uncomfortable with.
View Quote
10/22 is the answer. just find the ammo that is reliable in your gun. 10/22 with a way to hold 2-3mags. factory fiber sights are fine and easy for newbs.

just practice clearing failures. not over the top but something like "this rifle works like our lawnmower, needs constant attention".
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 2:29:25 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By tveddy:
TLDR
Kids aren't that tough. Can probably just shoot them with a regular 9mm pistol
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Just don't lead them so much...
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 6:34:12 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By southfloridaguns:
10/22 is the answer. just find the ammo that is reliable in your gun. 10/22 with a way to hold 2-3mags. factory fiber sights are fine and easy for newbs.

just practice clearing failures. not over the top but something like "this rifle works like our lawnmower, needs constant attention".
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Originally Posted By southfloridaguns:
Originally Posted By TobyLazur:
I'm going through the same thing with my 13 year old daughter.

As of a year ago she couldn't shoulder a 16"AR. She also want comfortable with the blast and noise. Recoil-wise, it didn't bother her.

I think the problem with blow back PCC is they have just as much heft and recoil as ARs.

At this point i think I'd rather have her shooting a 10-22 she can actually hit stuff with, than a rifle she's uncomfortable with.
10/22 is the answer. just find the ammo that is reliable in your gun. 10/22 with a way to hold 2-3mags. factory fiber sights are fine and easy for newbs.

just practice clearing failures. not over the top but something like "this rifle works like our lawnmower, needs constant attention".
M&P 15-22 is actually the answer. Same manual of arms as an AR-15 and adjustable length of pull. Its light weight and you can mount a red dot or scope.
Link Posted: 6/16/2019 11:43:28 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Dace:

M&P 15-22 is actually the answer. Same manual of arms as an AR-15 and adjustable length of pull. Its light weight and you can mount a red dot or scope.
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I tend to agree. We have multiple 10/22s, but also an M&P15-22 because it’s great for cross training. I find it to be more reliable than the 10/22 most the time as well
Link Posted: 6/27/2019 3:42:50 AM EDT
Logistics come into play as well.
Unless it's end of the world type SHTF, you really don't want to be shooting at anything outside the range of a 9mm carbine.
9mm is cheaper to stack deep than .223.
Less flash, etc. for the newbies.
If you have carbines that use Glock mags and your pistols are all glocks, less magazines types to worry about.

If I could do it all over again, I'd have AR's in .223 for me, dad, brother in law and wife and AR's in 9mm for the kids and sisters. g19's all around (got that now).
I have a crapload of 9mm stacked away. My theory (based on my experiences in S. Africa) is that a hole is a hole if you put it in the right place. You really don't need to be shooting at anything outside of 9mm range unless it is the end of the world - at 100 yards you can still get away. Most people can't hit shit at 100 yards and above. And finally, unless you have a REALLY determined criminal on your hands, he's going to run once the bullets start flying. Only once had one not run, but he was incredibly high on Tik or some other kind of upper.

9mm AR's are so cheap to put together now. They aren't my first choice - I'd much rather have CZ Scorpions, but mag choices keep me to the AR9 platform. Maybe the Ruger PC9's as others recommended?
Whatever you choose, take it to the range and run the hell out of it. Make sure it works with the ammo you have. Make sure the magazines are GTG, especially if you aren't running OEM mags. I've had some embarrassing moments with magpul and ETS mags.
Link Posted: 7/2/2019 8:45:51 PM EDT
My girls (13 and 15) have had their own identical mid length ARs for a couple years now. Pretty KISS, they have clamshell handguards and carry handles for rear sights, and B5 bravo buttstocks. They shoot them fine, zeroed on their own and are pretty consistent on steel at 200 from the prone.
Link Posted: 7/2/2019 11:39:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2019 11:40:12 PM EDT by LTCetme]
Both should be fine with ARs imo.

Don't overload them with gadgets and can openers. Simple and light. Rifle, red dot and training.

Same for pistol. Keep it simple 9mm sig or glock, night sights and training.
Link Posted: 7/3/2019 8:24:12 AM EDT
Someone that age should have absolutely no issues handling a rifle/ carbine chambered in 5.56 mm.
Don't sell them short by providing anything else and some instruction to go along with the gun.
Link Posted: 7/3/2019 8:38:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2019 8:43:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2019 8:50:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2019 8:52:57 AM EDT by Sajer]
My daughter struggles to hold up even a LW AR for more than 30 rds, but can handle an EVO in 9mm very easily. I'd probably just give her the EVO as we would be carrying 9mm handguns also.
Link Posted: 7/3/2019 3:34:05 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Lowdown3:

Yes.

I'm a big fan of not letting someone use an optic till they have done well with the basics and iron sights for a while. I wouldn't put an optic on my son's rifle till he was pretty consistent at 200 yards with irons on an AK.

I've seen too many "buy a solution" type guys that didn't learn/won't listen/pay attention to the basics that sucked azz with BRM that took the "well if I buy a $1200. ACOG I'm bound to shoot better." Now they are still yanking on the damn trigger and jumping off it immediately, just with a pretty optic up top.

The basics are the basics and that will make or break things. Too often though lazy preppers look for a solution they can BUY instead of spending the time in training and practice.

A high dollar optic with a mediocre shooter is still a mediocre system. A high dollar optic with a good shooter is a good system.

Can't truly cut corners on this, it's a lot of range time, a lot of training.
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One of the beautiful things about the AR platform, is it's sights. Good Lord...I remember the first time I shot an AR - highschool in JROTC. An actual honest to god M16A2. Coming from FAL's and Galils, it was fantastically accurate. I fell in love right there. I agree with you though. Neither of my kids have ever shot with an optic. All irons. They are 17 and 18 now. They are good with irons and don't want optics.
Link Posted: 7/3/2019 3:34:28 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Sajer:
My daughter struggles to hold up even a LW AR for more than 30 rds, but can handle an EVO in 9mm very easily. I'd probably just give her the EVO as we would be carrying 9mm handguns also.
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Not a bad idea!
Link Posted: 7/7/2019 2:05:35 AM EDT
.223 AR with suppressor. For both.
Link Posted: 7/8/2019 11:23:47 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Lowdown3:
Yes.

I'm a big fan of not letting someone use an optic till they have done well with the basics and iron sights for a while. I wouldn't put an optic on my son's rifle till he was pretty consistent at 200 yards with irons on an AK.

I've seen too many "buy a solution" type guys that didn't learn/won't listen/pay attention to the basics that sucked azz with BRM that took the "well if I buy a $1200. ACOG I'm bound to shoot better." Now they are still yanking on the damn trigger and jumping off it immediately, just with a pretty optic up top.

The basics are the basics and that will make or break things. Too often though lazy preppers look for a solution they can BUY instead of spending the time in training and practice.

A high dollar optic with a mediocre shooter is still a mediocre system. A high dollar optic with a good shooter is a good system.

Can't truly cut corners on this, it's a lot of range time, a lot of training.
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Originally Posted By Lowdown3:
Originally Posted By LTCetme:

Don't overload them with gadgets and can openers. Simple and light. Rifle, red dot and training.

Same for pistol. Keep it simple 9mm sig or glock, night sights and training.
Yes.

I'm a big fan of not letting someone use an optic till they have done well with the basics and iron sights for a while. I wouldn't put an optic on my son's rifle till he was pretty consistent at 200 yards with irons on an AK.

I've seen too many "buy a solution" type guys that didn't learn/won't listen/pay attention to the basics that sucked azz with BRM that took the "well if I buy a $1200. ACOG I'm bound to shoot better." Now they are still yanking on the damn trigger and jumping off it immediately, just with a pretty optic up top.

The basics are the basics and that will make or break things. Too often though lazy preppers look for a solution they can BUY instead of spending the time in training and practice.

A high dollar optic with a mediocre shooter is still a mediocre system. A high dollar optic with a good shooter is a good system.

Can't truly cut corners on this, it's a lot of range time, a lot of training.
Couldn't have said it better.

+1
Link Posted: 7/8/2019 11:42:50 PM EDT
For me and my clan...

Ruger 10/22
AR-15 rifle/carbine/pistol all in 5.56
Glock 19
Remington 870 in 12 gauge
Remington 700 in .223 and 308

For ammo...
22lr - CCI Minimag 40gr solid
.223 - Speer Gold Dot 55gr
5.56 - M193 FMJ
9mm - Remington 115gr JHP
.308 - Winchester Super X 180gr Power Point
12 gauge - Various #6 and #4 shells plus 00 buckshots and slugs

Gotta standardize guns so you can keep minimal spare parts (cannibalize spare guns if necessary) and ammo.
Link Posted: 7/9/2019 4:14:10 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By yobo:
For me and my clan...

Ruger 10/22
AR-15 rifle/carbine/pistol all in 5.56
Glock 19
Remington 870 in 12 gauge
Remington 700 in .223 and 308

For ammo...
22lr - CCI Minimag 40gr solid
.223 - Speer Gold Dot 55gr
5.56 - M193 FMJ
9mm - Remington 115gr JHP
.308 - Winchester Super X 180gr Power Point
12 gauge - Various #6 and #4 shells plus 00 buckshots and slugs

Gotta standardize guns so you can keep minimal spare parts (cannibalize spare guns if necessary) and ammo.
View Quote
Solid choices there! I agree on the standardization part. A lot of people don't agree.
I'm just about done with AR rifles and carbines. Switching to pistols all around except for my one rifle with A2 stock.
I simply didn't shoot the carbines anymore. I either shot the AR pistols or the A2.
Hard to beat a G19. They work. They conceal and feed anything you put in them.
I'm a bit flakey on the 10-22's. I've never had one that ran reliably. I can understand a failure in every brick of ammo, but for me it was almost every mag. Regardless of ammo or magazine. I prefer lever or bolt action .22's.
Link Posted: 7/23/2019 5:19:52 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By boerseun:
Solid choices there! I agree on the standardization part. A lot of people don't agree.
I'm just about done with AR rifles and carbines. Switching to pistols all around except for my one rifle with A2 stock.
I simply didn't shoot the carbines anymore. I either shot the AR pistols or the A2.
Hard to beat a G19. They work. They conceal and feed anything you put in them.
I'm a bit flakey on the 10-22's. I've never had one that ran reliably. I can understand a failure in every brick of ammo, but for me it was almost every mag. Regardless of ammo or magazine. I prefer lever or bolt action .22's.
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I have several Ruger 10/22 rifles and they are all over 20 years old. IMHO 10/22 are the most reliable semiauto 22 rimfire ever built when used with factory 10 round mag. In the old days I used Butler Creek 25 round Hot Lip mags and they were very reliable in the beginning but become less reliable as the plastic lips and followers became worn. Later when Butler Creek 25 round Steel Lip mags came out they were very good and lasted almost for ever. For last few years I (I should say my kids) have been using BX-25 mags and they have been very reliable. Used with good ammo like CCI Minimag solids and reliable magazine like factory 10 round or BX-25 they will rarely have malfunctions.
Link Posted: 7/23/2019 6:21:07 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Lowdown3:

Yes.

I'm a big fan of not letting someone use an optic till they have done well with the basics and iron sights for a while. I wouldn't put an optic on my son's rifle till he was pretty consistent at 200 yards with irons on an AK.

I've seen too many "buy a solution" type guys that didn't learn/won't listen/pay attention to the basics that sucked azz with BRM that took the "well if I buy a $1200. ACOG I'm bound to shoot better." Now they are still yanking on the damn trigger and jumping off it immediately, just with a pretty optic up top.

The basics are the basics and that will make or break things. Too often though lazy preppers look for a solution they can BUY instead of spending the time in training and practice.

A high dollar optic with a mediocre shooter is still a mediocre system. A high dollar optic with a good shooter is a good system.

Can't truly cut corners on this, it's a lot of range time, a lot of training.
View Quote
Fwiw the Marine Corps found scores with irons increased after learning on optics.
Link Posted: 7/23/2019 7:01:02 PM EDT
I started to use a .303 Lee Enfield at the age of 12
The rifle was about the same height I was at the time

A .223 would be a breeze in comparison - but go for a lightweight AR15A1 type with pencil barrel & stick to M193 fodder
Link Posted: 7/23/2019 7:54:08 PM EDT
There's no reason a teenager can't handle a 5.56 AR. None at all.
Link Posted: 8/6/2019 11:53:42 PM EDT
Pretty sure the AK is the #1 rifle choice for child soldiers all over the world.
Link Posted: 8/7/2019 8:10:13 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
Pretty sure the AK is the #1 rifle choice for child soldiers all over the world.
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Yeah but that's because their generally fully automatic and it's pretty easy to show someone how to spray and pray.....just sayin
Link Posted: 8/7/2019 8:46:43 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Mariner82:
There's no reason a teenager can't handle a 5.56 AR. None at all.
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SADF started us out on R1's (FAL) in 8th grade. As more R4's (5.56 Galil) became available, we transitioned. We were making hits out to 400 meters with irons by the time we hit 10th grade.
I completely agree with you that just about any teenager can handle a 5.56 AR. Just cheaper to teach them on 9mm or .23lr.
Link Posted: 8/7/2019 9:03:07 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By BUCK1911:

This.
AR15 in 556 and glock 19s all around.
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They work great for my teenagers.
Link Posted: 8/7/2019 9:13:51 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By joleson:
For SHTF? All the same so ammo and mags are compatible with everyone in my group.
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This.

Maybe a 10.5 AR Pistol to help with keeping extra weight off the front.
Link Posted: 8/7/2019 8:58:28 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Bigger_Hammer:

This.

Maybe a 10.5 AR Pistol to help with keeping extra weight off the front.
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I'd say hard to go wrong with that...especially with some kind of blast deflector/ flash cans on them. Then again, true boogaloo SHTF and everything will have suppressors
Link Posted: 8/7/2019 10:42:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2019 10:42:56 PM EDT by Macumazahn]
AR in 9mm? That seems to be fairly easy for smaller folks to shot. We have tried out a 9mm AR from Palmetto State Armory - about $550, IIRC. Takes glock mags, runs well and very easy to shoot. Same layout and function as a 5.56 one, maybe good to train on. Also easily suppressible.
Link Posted: 8/8/2019 12:08:27 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Macumazahn:
AR in 9mm? That seems to be fairly easy for smaller folks to shot. We have tried out a 9mm AR from Palmetto State Armory - about $550, IIRC. Takes glock mags, runs well and very easy to shoot. Same layout and function as a 5.56 one, maybe good to train on. Also easily suppressible.
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My 9mm AR feels about the same as a 5.56 AR. The main difference is the blast and noise. It is quiter by quite a bit and easier to shoot in that regarrd. Ammo is also much cheaper. Add to that the fact that most inexperienced shooters won't be making shots past 100 yards to begin with and it's a pretty good idea.
Link Posted: 8/8/2019 3:43:52 AM EDT
If the thought is for a longer term scenario, then a 10/22 with a Magpul Hunter X-22 stock. The ergonomics are much better than the standard 10/22 and the buttstock spacers make it easy-ish to grow the gun with the kiddo. A 22LR can still be a great and relatively quiet way to get squirrels, rabbits, etc to put some meat in the stewpot. If you are thinking more along the lines of keeping two legged varmints away, then I'd throw another vote behind the AR15.
Link Posted: 8/8/2019 12:52:46 PM EDT
OTTO Jr. got a Glock System 9 m.m. braced AR pistol.
The barrel is 9 inches, and it has A2 sights.

He loves it, and mags grow on trees.
Link Posted: 8/8/2019 2:51:58 PM EDT
In my experience kids are all over the map with respect to recoil.

My oldest son couldn't wait to shoot things. He shot my .458 Lott at 13, even though it rocked him off his front foot.
I've watched another kid fire one round of .223 and he was done.

I think most of it is mental (if they've been around guns and are interested or eager to shoot)
and some of it is form. (good form helps tame recoil).

With that in mind, you probably know your kids best, and how they will respond to recoil and noise. If not, take them shooting and see. My only advice there, is don't push them into something they don't want to shoot. Nothing sadder than watching a kid have a good time shooting and then have it ruined by recoil they're not prepared for.

I was teaching a friend's son how to shoot. He was nine years old, and big for his age. We started with .22's and worked up to .223. He was nothing but smiles, as was his Dad. His Grandpa was there watching, and made him try a 20 gauge slug. The kid didn't want to, but relented. It made him cry, which embarrassed him, which made it all the worse. Turned a good day bad, just like that.
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