General came as something of a surprise. I wasn’t sure I’d remember the principles / answers, having not spent much time with the book.

...  it only took me 20 years of procrastinating...

I tried extra, but had to guess on most of them - having given that book only a casual glance due to focusing on the others.

I have a yaesu vx6r which I’ve programmed with the repeaters on other things for those areas of TX I spend time in.

Recommendations for getting started in HF?

ETA:  I’m just starting in all of it. So any newbie tips are apppreciated.

Congrats - so many possible ways to get going, it's hard to know what to suggest, but I'll try anyway.

You will need an hf rig. Or even just a receiver. You can do a lot with a 100-watt class SSB/CW transceiver. Do you have a budget in mind? Know a local ham who might loan you some equipment just to get your feet wet? Learn how to use all of the features of the rig - or at least start by learning the receiver's features and operation.

Do you have experience with shortwave monitoring? If not, learning the characteristics of the different bands (at different times of day, at this point in the solar cycle) would be good. As would be learning the frequency limits of each band, as well as where the phone and cw activity can be found.

Do you have an hf antenna? A simple wire antenna for one or two bands is probably a good way to get started. If you have trees to support it, a 40-meter dipole with a coaxial cable feedline is easy to build and it will work pretty well on both 40 and 15 meters. 30 feet in the air would do the trick.

Do a lot of listening - on both cw and phone. And then make plans for your first QSO.

How's that for starters?

You may want to think about some options. For 2m/440, you could get a dual-band mobile radio that would be able to reach a lot farther than your HT (although my VX-8DR does OK when I'm close enough). For HF (only), you can get an FT-891 for a reasonable price and it's a great HF rig. If you want an all-in-one, you could get an FT-991A for a home rig or an FT-857D for a mobile rig. The FT-991 is a great home rig (touch screen is nice) and you can do all the digital modes easily without using a separate sound card (has one built in). I use an FT-857D in my Jeep and a nice mobile antenna where I put 20m and 40 HF coils on the antenna (Comet UHV-6).

I've learned enough to be able to throw together a "go bag" in case I need to go operate remotely somewhere. That can be fun, too, although it might be a "need" in case of an emergency. There are so many facets to the hobby, it's hard to get started. At this point, I get on a couple of local nets on 2m, but for the most part spend my time on HF. I like the digital modes like PSK31 as it gives me time to think about what I'm going to say rather than sounding like a moron on the voice side.

Congrats and enjoy something new!

Start Here

Then, 99 Episodes of Ideas (including 4 shopping shows to help you spend)

The antenna system is the most important part of your station.

Ladder Line Multiband Dipole: http://www.hamuniverse.com/hfdoublet.html
Coax Fed Dipole: http://www.hamuniverse.com/dipoleantenna.html
Fan Dipole: http://www.hamuniverse.com/multidipole.html
Using 40 Meter Dipole on 15 Meters: http://new-ham-radio.blogspot.com/2010/07/is-it-true-that-you-can-use-40-meter.html
Off-Center Fed (Windom) Dipole: http://www.buxcomm.com/windom.htm
Antennas, Feedlines, and Propagation: http://www.hamuniverse.com/n4jaantennabook.html

A quick start would be to make a fan dipole for 40 and 20 meters, then add the capacity hats as shown above to reduce SWR on 15 Meters. Since it's summer, there will be a lot of static on 80 Meters and because we're in the low point of the sunspot cycle, there's not going to be a whole lot going on above 15 Meters.

Thanks fellas.

I was googling around on the HF side and discovered DMR.

Seems interesting, as I travel for work (by plane) it appears I could theoretically key up on a DMR capable HT and talk to the same group of people regardless of the repeater I am hitting.

Am I understanding that correctly?

If your repeater talkgroups are on brandmeister you can get a hotspot(jumbospot,zumspot, openspot) connect that your your wifi or any wifi and have a connection anywhere. I'm new to this also but if you don't have a hotspot but both repeaters that you may be using are connected to the internet. I think you can reach the TG on your home repeater. I'm not sure but I think you tie up the local repeater when you're ragchewing on it which is why a hotspot is handy. You're basically your own repeater. The guys will correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm only a Tech. I'll be honest at this point. I'm not sure I'll upgrade to Gen. Not sure I want to spend the big dollars to talk to someone around the world through static when I can key up on DMR and have pretty much unlimited access to people around the world.  Many of those on HF are also on DMR.
I'm not really worried about a SHTF need for HAM radio.
HAM and electronics has interested me for a while and I do have a technical background. I think if I had got into it as a teen since there wasn't any internet as it is today(not talking about Gopher and stuff as internet) I would be way more into it.

But for the moment no real desire to stick antennas on my car(maybe small VHF/UHF magmount),house, or build a tower.

That said. I may see about finding a cheap mobile unit if that exist that can do SSB also and building an antenna I can mount to a tripod to play around with so I can say I did it or in case of that SHTF happens that I'm not worried about. Learn how to tune it and at least listen to others so I would know how to use it but it's not really pressing at this time for me.

I may study for and take the general. I got a buddy I was suppose to go take my tech with but he didn't have time to study for it. I may go with him and take it the gen.

While I'm being long winded as usually I'll throw my 2 cents in on the proposal to give Techs more privs.  I know a lot of old timers say no because there would be no incentive for a Tech to upgrade.
Some of the things I've read seem elitist or I had to do it so you should too talk or this is the way it's  been, why change.

I say just revamp the whole thing. Give everyone privs. Just make it power based.. Tech 100w max, Gen 200W max and then Extra unlimited power and maybe some digital mode that's not allowed on the lower levels. Tech maybe add a few more questions and for Gen & Extra you have to actually demonstrate the ability to work and setup a station. I honestly don't think you're going to have a lot of people tying up spectrum than you do now if you give Techs more privs because they're not going to spend the money on the equipment.

I could see the point if you had to get your Tech first for a yr and then come in to test and demonstrate that you can use and understand the equipment before being granted a Gen or higher license but when you have Guy A and Guy B both go to take the test and Guy A just sits for the Tech while Guy B just spent more time memorizing a few more question for the Gen. That doesn't make him a better operator than Guy A.
You see it posted here and other forums. Just take the Gen when you go get your Tech. It's only a few more things you have to know.
Let's be honest. It's 2018 people are buying equipment off the shelf, not building their own as majority I bet.

I think more effort should be on the rules and regulations and proper on air etiquette. I actually heard a kid and old guy argue over which phonetic to use for a letter
Yeah I'm in the minority with my thoughts but it's just the way I see it for now. Views could change.

Sorry for the threadjack

Well - I don't really have an opinion. I read through the technician book a couple times, then many practice tests using an app.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0945053797/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ham-test-prep-technician/id297951496?mt=8

The general class book I read through once, and did maybe 10 or so practice tests using the (same publisher) app for the general class.

Super pleased I was able to go ahead and pass it.  My eventual goal is to spend a few years sailing around the world. Marine SSB (which is HF just designated for Marine use), Amateur HF, and subscription satellite solutions are it, when you're a long way from land.

I attempted the Extra test, but didn't pass which wasn't surprising as I'd only flipped through the book.

You could just hop on a computer and accomplish the same thing...

(not a criticism...just saying...)

True and you can with echolink... have it installed on my pc and app on my phone

Obviously you don't know what you're talking about.  Please post links for Moon bounce or which satellite you personally have used, maybe even show your QSO with the space station.

I think he was talking about DMR/ hotspot comments I made about talking to people around the world through static.
Not sure what satellite and moon bounce has to do with it or maybe I just misread the whole thing. Not the 1st time that's happened

I think he's talking about DMR/Echolink/D-Star, etc.

I kinda agree.  It is not really my thing.  But, a bunch of the "techie" young guys in town are all into it, and I'm glad they are.  It is time for some innovation in ham radio again.

I'm more of an HF guy, and would love to get into more SSB VHF work, but don't really have the room for the antennas right now.  HF station is modest, but it is fun making a contact half way across the world with 100W and a wire with no infrastructure.  Kinda like I "did something" with my life

Attached File

Exactly. If DMR interests you, great. Seriously; I hope you enjoy it. The same people that talk around the world on DMR probably think I'm nuts for putting up massive HF antennas to do the same thing.

I find it interesting to see what I can do without the grid; I have a generator; I am working on solar; I don't need internet to function. If DMR and Echolink were all that the hobby was about, I'd have given it up ages ago.

To the OP, if you're interested in HF, but not ready to fork over the cash or put up an antenna, check out some of the online WebSDR sites. They allow you to surf all that HF has to offer from the comfort of your easy chair and your favorite web browser. It'll let you get a taste of HF, without having to spend the money on a station.

http://www.websdr.org/

FYI  I don't think you're nuts. I get it honestly. It is more hands on and tinkering. I just don't know if I want to drop the coin to do it, lose interest.
Also saw your setup in the other thread this afternoon. Looks nice.
I'm not the OP but I may check out the link you posted

That site, and eventually setting up my own SDR setup at my house, is partly what rekindled my interest in Amateur Radio.

Is this QRZ.com?

When I first got my General I had 2 things in mind:

1. Talk along the Entire Eastern Seaboard of the US
2. Talk to AARFCOM'ers

After spending $450 on a used HF radio and another $100 for a tuner, building a 100+/-' Random Wire antenna and hanging it at 8' above ground I accomplished those in few a weeks time.
(along with an AM contact to AZ and my first phone contact to Japan)

That was followed soon by an introduction to the Digital Modes and EMCOMM Boxes (both inspired by ARFcom-see stickies).

Not long after I was curiously bitten by the potential of APRS (a VHf project that continues today).

since then, I've gotten further into 'Packet' Radio, built antennas, attended Club Field Days, hosted my own Winter Field Days, bought and sold gear, participated w/ ARES, tried new modes and met new people and in the end-I can assure you of this:

The Ham Radio Hobby Offers Something for Anyone Interested.

Fun4Me:

HF Phone
HF Digital
VHF/UHF Local Ops
APRS
Packet
Building a Repeater
Helping the local FD fix their comms

Not4Me

DMR
Portable HF Ops
CW
Tower Climbing
Club Socials/Meetings
Ragchewing

As a newbie and Tech only for now. I read QRZ forums because they seem to have more traffic. It seems to me like too many old dudes with a superiority complex or something when someone mentions anything other than pure radio. It's like some are scared to embrace change.

I may go ahead and study up and get my General in a few months. I've been watching some videos on YouTube about equipment and some people making contacts.
It's not cheap to get into HF IMO also finding the spare time to do it but I know if I do it I want to be able to take it outside on the patio while kicked back in a lawn chair or something.haha
I was looking at a Yaesu FT891, would need a power supply and some kind of antenna that  can be taken down after use that doesn't cost my other arm, may have to look into that wire in a tree stuff but it would be next year before I bought anything if I decided I still wanted to do it.

I don't know I'm rambling. Time to go find something to eat

a very astute observation! and it's why ARFHams are 99.999% (we all have our days) not that guy

Yeah its definitely not and you 444 and others answered a ton of questions I asked without the attitude so thanks for that.

Check out my edit to my post you quoted
You guys have almost convinced me to go get my Gen and get into HF.
My local repeaters are pretty dead except for a few guys. No DMR repeaters here so I use a hotspot which works and the DMR voice audio doesn't bother me but the constant kerchunking does get annoying and there seems to be a few guys who I think must keep their PTT in there hand because as soon as someone gives a callsign and ask about their audio, they're on it and no one else gets a chance hahaha
It does get kind of boring listening to hows my audio, testing out this hotspot thanks 73

Get an HF rig and we can try to make a QSO?? LOL

If you think you will be doing digital modes, factor that into your purchase planning. I run a 15w radio, if it weren’t for digital Modes, I would have barely anyone to talk to when band conditions are bad.

I pulled the plug on that shit-fest about 5 years ago and never looked back, shortly after I discovered ArfCom.

Thanks for the tip.  To be honest though I'm such a newb I don't know enough to know how doing digital modes affects my purchase planning.

The radio will either be hooked up to a computer either to the sound card via conventional jacks, or will be an SDR (software defined radio) that is a plain box that your computer controls. Elecraft makes sdr’s with conventional knobs that appear to be standard radios but they are on the pricey side.

Don’t be afraid to look at used radio. Go easy on your first antenna, I like the ZS6BKW because it is resonant on pretty much everything but 160m.

Digital modes are very nice during difficult band conditions. Or, you may just enjoy keyboard to keyboard operation.  In today's world, digital modes are almost an essential component in ham radio: they are very popular.

Generally, to work digital modes you need to connect the radio to a computer and this connection passes audio signals back and forth from the radio to the computer. It isn't required but it is very nice to also have control signals back and forth between the radio and computer to actually control the radio from the PC: this is referred to as CAT control. CAT control is not passing audio, it is simply to control the radio; it allows the software to do things like change the frequency of the radio with a mouse click.

How this effects you decision in buying a radio in my opinion is twofold:

First of all, you want a radio that has some kind of data port. You don't want to route your audio from the radio via the speaker jack and microphone jack. Most modern radios have this capability. But if you are looking at an older radio or a very low end radio, keep this in mind. FWIW: one of my favorite radios is the Elecraft KX3 which does not this capability. It requires you to take audio from the speaker jack (which means you can't hear what is going on since the internal speaker is muted when using the external speaker jack) and it requires you to input the audio to the radio via the microphone jack. I don't like this for a number of reasons: I gave one; you can't hear what is going on. Second, if you want to switch to SSB, you have to disconnect the audio cables then connect a microphone. Yet another reason is that it is sometimes desirable to operate SSB and digital back and forth. For example, I am a member of MARS and operation there is on both voice and digital and you go back and forth. You need to receive digital and then immidiately someone might transmit on SSB....................

Second: does the radio have an internal "Soundcard". When people refer to a soundcard, what they are talking about is an analog to digital and digital to analog converter. It takes the analog audio from your radio, converts it to digital so your computer can process the data. Then when you transmit, the process is reversed: it converts the digital signal from your computer to audio to be transmitted by your radio in the SSB mode. This process CAN be done several different ways. Some people simply connect a cable from their radio speaker jack to the audio input of their computer sound card, and the output of their computer soundcard to the microphone input of the radio. In this case your audio levels are adjusted with the volume knob on the radio and the microphone gain control on the radio. Or you can adjust the audio levels using your computer soundcard settings in the operating system of your computer.

You can also buy an external audio interface such as the Tigertronics Signalink which does the same thing only it isolates the signal; decreasing or eliminating noise on the audio signal as well as giving you some controls (physical knobs) on the front panel to adjust your audio levels (and these audio levels, particularly your transmit audio levels do change and being able to easily adjust them is desirable). An external audio interface like the Signalink can be used from the speaker/microphone jack or from a data port on the back of the radio. The data port is simply a connector on the radio that has various connections such as audio in and out as well as possibly control signals for the radio which allows you to leave your microphone connected as well as to be able to hear your radio audio. The data is passed through a seperate cable connected to this data jack. The radio you own determines how you make these connections and as I said, to me it is very very desirable to have a data port to access these functions.

Then a third way to do digital modes is if the radio has a built in "soundcard". This is becoming a pretty common feature in mid to higher end radios. In this case, you simply connect your radio to a PC using a USB cable and it gives you the benefits of an audio interface box without any additional cables or additional hardware. The radio itself does the AD and DA conversion internally and the USB cable is simply passing the digital signal to your PC via the USB port.

Someone earlier made a couple suggestions on radios, and they mentioned the Yeasu FT-891 and 991.
I like both these choices. I own an FT-891 which is IMO the best thing out there for the money. It gives you a 100 watt radio in a very small, inexpensive package. The 991 is a more expensive option but also very good for the money. As far as the digital side of things: the 891 does not have a built in sound card. It does connect to the computer via a USB cable, however the USB cable is used strictly for serial data (CAT Control, firmware updates.......) and does not pass audio. The 991 does have a built in "soundcard". Another very good (and popular) choice is the Icom IC-7300.

I mentioned getting the 891 if I go ahead and get my General. Been watching some YouTube videos on it and people making contacts. Do you guys get as excited as those YouTubers?
I fig if I do go for the Gen get a good radio but it'll be next year. I'll just wait till spring when we get a small bonus here. That should cover the radio, tuner, an antenna and battery.
Am I reading that right? You can't do digital with the 891?

I need to do more antenna reading. I already have some questions but will hold off until closer to decision time but first I need to study and pass the Gen.

You can do digital with most ANYTHING that has a mic input and a speaker output.

for instance: I'm working Digital modes with my 1992 Kenwood TS-50 and a soundcard interface like the Signalink USB ($100).  My new IC7100 has it built in, but I'm having too much fun and success to worry with swapping them out right now!

the IC7100 has the interface built-in so there is one less appliance in the mix.

Yes, sometimes we get a little excited.  RF Comms is fun  

Mi Amigo OH8STN is doing some fun stuff with the 891

I'll check out your buddy link.
I started today fooling with HamStudy.org so you guys convinced me I guess to go to Gen. May just pay the HamTestOnline fee as I used that last time but didn't pay I just kept testing until it gave me all the possible questions.

"You can do digital with most ANYTHING that has a mic input and a speaker output."

Yes, but to be a little more clear, you can do digital on any radio that does SSB. When you are operating with digital modes, you are just sending and receiving SSB but instead of a human voice, you are sending and receiving audio tones.

Yes, the FT-891 works great with digital modes. It has a data jack in the back, and it has a USB connector. Again, the USB connector does not carry audio, it only allows you to have CAT control of the radio and do firmware updates and things like that. Then you connect a second cable from the data jack (which does have audio) to an interface box like a Signalink (there are others, but I have always used a Signalink). So the FT-891 does not have a built in soundcard. But it absolutely does work fine with digital modes. I use mine all the time, pretty much daily on digital modes. To get a little more specific, the FT-891 has two jacks in the back; one six pin jack and one 13 pin jack. I am using both with my radio. The six pin jack is being used with a Signalink for digital modes and the 13 pin jack is being used to control an MFJ auto antenna tuner.

Like I said, for the money, I think the FT-891 is a lot of radio. They have been on sale for less than $600. Of course I bought mine when it wasn't on sale :(

Ok I think I understand or at least have the basics. Studying G1 now. The goal is 2-3 sections a day depending on work load and school starting back up for my son in about a month.
I think I'll wait for one of the $600 or less deals though 444 hahahah like I said I think that's the radio I want to go with and I don't really plan on doing any radio work inside and I'll need an antenna that I can take up and down but thats way down the road. But the plan is to do most of the radio work outside and relaxing next to a lawn chair while the grill is going hahah
The goal is to hopefully pass the test and have some basic equipment around spring and see if I can find some storm chasers

Hate to admit it and I was saying I thought it would be enough for me to just stay a Tech use DMR to talk to people around the world static free(shut up ) but I'm finding DMR a little boring with all the I just got a hotspot and how do I sound stuff and the constant kerchunking thats required to join a TG
If that's all I'm going to get I may as well chase the static and start a logbook on HF or try contesting.  I did check into a net on Tac310 and geezus people still don't follow the check in rules

I will stand by what I said about giving Tech more freq access. I honestly don't think you're going to see many Techs take advantage because of the cost of the equipment. It's not a cheap Boefang but we'll drop that subject. I got studying to do so I can pass the Gen like the OP

There is a post earlier in the thread where I linked the books I used, as well as an iOS study / practice test app.

I spent a few days reading through the book and used the practice test app to take a practice test whenever I had a free five minutes.  It worked well for me.

Thanks. I'll scroll back and find your post.
I also used hamwhisper.com videos for my tech and that helped but his Gen looks to be outdated so it's book time
I need to check and see when the place I took my Tech test will be giving their next test and try to make that my goal but I'm probably looking at Sept/Oct
Just depends on how well I pick it up

Sometimes I come across a channel on my HT which sounds like a Diesel engine running.  Or... something.

Is that digital?  Just need to hook it in to my line in on pc and run the right software to decode?

ETA:  Not SSB though...

I am probably confusing you because some of what I am saying is generalization. In some cases I am trying not to get too deep or go too far afield in the explanation.

And, because we were talking about HF. On HF, this is done on SSB.

Again, "digital modes" are just audio tones transmitted over the air and software is used to decode them at the other end. You CAN transmit these audio tones over any voice mode as far as I know, and  using digital modes on FM is not unheard of on the VHF and UHF bands. You can transmit the same digital modes over FM on VHF that you can on HF SSB.

To put this in perspective, I left out one way it is possible to work digital modes. You can dispense with the interface boxes, cables and all that. You can key a microphone and hold it up to a speaker playing these audio tones. You can decode them by holding a computer or cell phone microphone up to a speaker and decode them. There are cell phone apps where you can hold the phone up to a speaker and it will decode the audio. For example, I have a cell phone app that does slow scan TV. You can tune a receiver to a frequency where people like to play with slow scan TV and when they start transmitting SSTV you hold the phone up to the speaker and it will decode it and display the picture on your cell phone screen. Because it is just audio. So you CAN transmit "digital modes" over any radio that can transmit voice.

My callsign appeared on FCC so I'm legal.  Though they got my address and email address slightly wrong.  Submitted corrections which I guess take time to process.

I hadn't quite thought through that info being public.  While everyone is in the same boat exchanging callsigns over the radio, not true for internet in general.  Hafta keep that in mind I guess.

If you're looking for some anonymity, you can legally use a PO box for your mailing address to send the raiders on a goose chase  

it works for me

Your biggest risk is in telling people on other non ham forums what your call is or telling them what sites you hang out on that might have your call on it. I belong to an RC model airplane site that has a very political off topic forum that I love to beat liberal ass on, I got doxxed this way. Didn’t amount to much, but I prefer it didn’t happen at all because the asshole didn't do it with my best interest at heart.