Updated thread title! Come on in!


We were gifted 2 weathered goats, fairly young. We have plenty of space for them, where as the previous owner did not and he was forced to get rid of the asap.

I saw them today for the first time and have a few questions. They are pretty docile but since they are new we have been keeping them in a pen under some trees where there is plenty of forage.

One has patchy hair, we were told he was different and since I was getting the information 2nd hand I don't know any more. The PO had been feeding them horse feed, not sweet feed, just plain horse feed so I was planning on buying some medicated feed to see if that may help.

As far as a shelter, we have a dilapidated barn, that the hurricanes tore apart and have been slowly trying to get that cleared of the fallen trees, brush, and busted lumber. However that has taken a backseat to everything else. I will be attending the that soon.

The one with the patchy hair looks like it has been chewing its hair out, so maybe it has a nervous problem? I don't know. I will try to get some pics later, but for now some general advice will go a long way.

Patchy hair or hair loss in goats is typically a zinc deficiency.  A telltale sign of zinc deficiency is also 'fish tail' on the goats tail: if the hair on the tail is split away from itself and appears like the tail of a fish.  Could also be mites of some sort, so you may need to treat if necessary.  Diatomaceous earth rubbed over the goat will help with external parasites.  Permethrin can also be used in a spray bottle for the external parasites or flies.  Treatment of internal parasites via medication must be administered orally, and not by injection.  Goat metabolism is such as an injection is metabolized before it can affect parasites in the digestive tract.

Sweet feed is fine for goats, but in moderation.  Any food that is 'rich' should always be moderated, an example would be alfalfa.  If you plan to grain them, I would suggest a goat grower feed, such as Purina.  Copper is a necessary part of the goat diet, most producers administer copper bolus to the goats to keep their copper levels up.  In addition to providing as a dietary supplement, the copper shavings within the bolus will remain in the stomach until fully digested.  The shavings can physically damage the barber pole worms (more on this below), and assist in the deworming process.

In my experience, the primary concern with goat longevity is parasites, especially in warm, wet climates.  The barber pole worm has been the primary goat killer for me.  Depending on the breed, such as goats originating from Africa, which are used to an arid climate, have a very poor resistance to the barber pole.  Frequent deworming (in warm, wet months: every 30 days) will be necessary.  You'll want to look up the FAMACHA chart to quickly determine worm load without doing fecal analysis.  The barber pole worms grow in the soil, and climb grass up to a height of 4-5 inches.  Goats ingest them and they attach to the stomach lining, and suck their blood, creating iron deficiency which will be ultimately fatal as the worm load increases.

Pasture rotation is an essential part of worm control in goats.  As the barber pole worms in their stomach mature, they release larva, which is then expelled in the goat feces.  The larva grows into new worms in the soil, and is then re-ingested by the goat, increasing the amount of worms sucking them dry.  Without a host, however, the worms will eventually die off.  Ideally you would want to lime the pasture as part of the rotation.  This will add nutrients back to the soil, but also dry out the worms and kill them, reducing the amount of time necessary to keep the goats off of that pasture.

If iron deficiency appears, you'll want to treat with injectable iron and B12, and a high calorie supplement (such as Dyne).  Injectable iron can be found at your local Tractor Supply, or similar.  B12 is a vet-only item, but isn't hard to get from them once you explain your use case.  The iron replenishes the iron within the goat, while the B12 more efficiently converts the high calorie supplement, triggering the bone marrow to provide red blood cells to replenish those destroyed by the worms.

Another tip is goats are browsers, and not grazers (like sheep).  They prefer a wide assortment of plants, and instinctively know which ones to stay away from.  However, they will graze grass if that is all that is available, but will increase the worm load (see above).  If you can provide them an area to roam, especially within woods with a large assortment of plants to browse from, they'll do the best.  Keep them away from cedar trees if you don't want them to kill the trees.  They love to strip the bark off of cedars and eat it, ultimately killing the tree.  However, cedar is a natural dewormer for goats as well, I'll often take down a cedar tree and leave it for the goats to demolish.

In the winter, if normal forage is unavailable, you will want to provide hay.  Grain can be given as well if you want to fatten them faster, but roughage is necessary year-round for their rumen to work correctly.

Being wethers, they really have 3 purposes:

1) Fattened up for slaughter
2) Used as a companion animal for other goats/livestock.  Goats as a species require a companion to be most happy, so you never want to have a single goat without companion.
3) Used for brush clearing.

I suppose you could add a 4th option to keep them as pets, though I consider them livestock and not pets.

Goats love to eat things that are bitter.  Poison Ivy is a good example, they will also devour sticker bushes, thorns and all, so they are ideal for clearing unwanted brush from an area.  Be advised they will also eat your rose bushes if you allow them access.

Hopefully I didn't throw too much information at you.  I've been raising goats for a number of years, and contrary to the popular belief that goats are easy to take care of, the opposite is truly the case.  There is a lot to know about them if you plan to keep and/or raise goats long term.  Feel free to reach out if you need any advice.

L great information. There will primarily browse for food as we have lots of clearing to be done. They will not lack food lol

I have been reading up on diet and loose minerals today. So Zinc, Ivermectin, and some medicated feed for evenings to get them used to coming to the pen at night, and some alfalfa pellets for occasional feed are on the shipping list.

I suspect you are correct about the possible mineral deficiency, but we will treat for parasites and worms as well.

Good to know about the copper and how it works.

I am sure these were neglected.

I would recommend Prohibit for dewormer, as it is the most cost effective of the best options.  You may not be able to find it locally, but Jeffers Pet carries it by the pouch.  Another product that is good is Cydectin sheep drench, which is off-label use for goats (it is rather expensive though, ~$70/liter the last time I bought it).  However, to be most effective it should be used 12 hours after the first dose.  Prohibit is a one-and-done (and much cheaper).

Instead of loose minerals, I prefer to use the brown trace mineral blocks.  They will last a long time and not get as mucky as trace minerals can be once they get wet.

As for the Zinc, you can buy the capsules at a pharmacy, and open them and sprinkle the contents on some feed to encourage ingestion.

Also meant to mention the darker goat has more of a Nubian coloration, which makes me suspect he'll be more susceptible to the worms.

Good luck with the new goats!

Lots of good information I most appreciate the help. We have a lot of learning to do and work but we are willing to put in the time.
We will be trying to find some of the products you mentioned. We used to live 15 minutes from Jeffer's and would go there all the time. We get their promotional catalogs in the mail currently too. So mail order it will be.

Thanks again if I think of more questions I will hit you up.
Regards!

Went and picked up some Safeguard paste since Tractor Supply was sold out of Ivermectin, Purina Goat Grower, and Purina Loose minerals. They really didn't have much of anything goat wise, mostly horse focused. I also grabbed some Zinc tablets from Wal-Mart which they readily ate from my hand.

Was able to get a look at their eyes and they were pale pink so I gave them some Safeguard, about an inch on my finger. They licked it off easily.

They had eaten all the browse within their pen so I moved it to a new spot and they immediately began hogging down. I fed them several cups of the Grower pellets since they were thin with their hindquarters were very thin. The loved it and wolfed it down quickly.

I set out a rubber pan with a few cups of the minerals which they also began to chow on. Topped of with fresh water and left.

I returned about an hour later and they had eaten a bunch of the browse so we fed them a 5 gallon bucket of wild garlic and spring onions were dug up out of a large planter. They immediately began to chomp on them too!

They seem to like us we can enter the pen and rub on them and feed by hand. The dogs want to play with them but the goats do not want to play with them.

I plan on slowly expanding the pen area and fixing the barn up then release them into a pasture for the day, returning them to the barn at night.

I have question about hoof care. What do we need to do? Lol I am buying a pair of hoof shears, but not sure what to do or look for.

Pale pink indicates mild anemia.  You ideally want them to be dark red.  Safeguard is in the 'white' wormer family, and it works best on flukes which generally are in the liver and lungs.  It is largely ineffective on the barber pole worm, which causing 99% of anemia in goats.  The Safeguard dosage is 4.3cc/100 pounds.  The Ivermectin dosage is 24cc/100 pounds.  I would recommend treating with the ivermectin to treat the likely barber pole worms in their stomachs.

Tractor Supply also sells a small pair of hoof trimmers that work great on goats: https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/producers-pride-burgon-ball-eze-trim-foot-trimmer-with-adjustable-tension?cm_vc=-10005

Some breeds of goat need their hooves trimmed more frequently than others.  Keep them flat and try not to go too deep.  You'll gain a feel for what they should look like as time goes on, and keep a close eye out for any limping.  It's just like our toenails, if they grow out and start curling, you know they need a trim.  If you do go too deep and they start to bleed, put some wound powder or corn starch on it to stop the bleeding.

A lot of good info.  I have an area next to my shop that is too overgrown for me to get either ZTR or tractor with bushhog into and clear it out.  I'm thinking of fencing it in and letting a goat or two in there to clear it up.  After it's cleared, I would plan to butcher them for meat.

What kind of minimum fencing do I need?  Which goats best for butchering?

Thanks, and I hope I'm not derailing the OP's thread.  

I don't mind providing more info if OP doesn't mind.

Goats convert foliage that is essentially useless into meat better than any other livestock.  Using goats within an area you want cleaned out is a good idea, and just so happens to be how I originally got into goats.

Goats are escape artists, and it is very much 'monkey see, monkey do' with them.  If one figures a way out, the others will follow.  I use 4x4 goat and sheep fence, and run one electric wire along the bottom about 4"-5" off of the ground using insulators.  If you want to move them frequently, you can get some reusable, and moveable goat fencing from Premier1, it is more of an electric mesh fence.  One extra item of note on fencing: If you have does on one side of a fence, and bucks along the other they will back up to the fence and let the buck breed them.  The only way I've successfully stopped this through-the-fence breeding is with 3 strands of electric on the buck side, and another 2 strands of electric on the doe side.  Goats do respect an electric fence, but not much else.

If you plan to keep them long term, good pasture can support 6 goats per acre.  That, of course, does not figure in the worm load of keeping the goats on the same pasture.  They will have enough food using that number, but the worms will steadily increase until they get overwhelmed with worms, and they become resistant to the dewormer.

That being said, with the right breed for warm/wet climates, you can entirely manage the worms with simple pasture rotation.  If you are interested in goats long-term, the Kiko breed which originates from New Zealand has very good resistance if you inquire closely to their bloodlines and history.  A good rule of thumb is to rotate pasture every 3-4 months, letting one pasture rest while they browse another.  Assuming you don't have enough room for this rotation, you can include a 'dry lot' to move them into and feed them hay/grain during that period.  To reduce the amount of time a pasture needs to rest to reduce the worm load, you can lime the pasture.  The lime will dry out the worms and cause them to die more quickly, and help rejuvenate the soil at the same time.

Since I am on the subject of pasture and hay, you can sow cold weather grasses, such as rye grass for the colder months.  This can reduce, or eliminate the need for hay.  This year hay is going to be a harder to come by, and more expensive.  Fertilizer price has gone up, along with everything else.  There are also, shockingly, fertilizer shortages.  Farmers are going to feel the squeeze this coming winter.  My plan is to sow rye grass in all of my pastures, and rotate them through which will hopefully eliminate my normal need for hay.  The farmer that provides my hay by the round bale already told me that he doubts he can spare any, because he'll need what he bales for his own cattle this winter.  One last note on the rye grass, it is richer than normal grass and may cause loose stool, so don't be alarmed if you go this route.

While I'm on the subject of breeds, a good cross-breed is a Kiko/Boer cross.  The Boer adds in a heavier frame and yields more meat (plus a better texture and flavor), but they are much more susceptible to the worms being that they originated from South Africa.  An ideal combination would be Kiko females and a Boer male.  That leaves you with a single goat that you need to monitor closely for deworming.  Keeping him separated except during breeding time is good, but remember he'll need a companion animal with him.  Most often that includes other intact males if you have enough goats that a single buck can't cover them all, or a wether that you'll eventually process out.

While goats can be bred every 6 months, I typically only breed them once per year.  The reason being weather during kidding season can cause great losses.  Gestation is almost exactly 150 days, with a +/- 5 days.  Any less or any more than that 5 days, expect the kids to be stillborn.  Here in Tennessee, I target breeding in November.  This means spring babies should be born after the last frosts, and have the best chance of survival.  Breeding any later than November brings a different set of problems, so I've found this to be the sweet spot here.

Ideal weight for slaughter is 45-50 pounds.  If you can field dress a deer and butcher it, you can easily do a goat.  Goat's may look very lean while butchering them, but they have fat evenly marbled throughout.  Once you start to fry the meat in a skillet, you'll see it right away.

The 45-50 pounds holds true for sale prices as well, once you pass that weight the price per pound starts going down.  Another factor is time of year, many ethnic populations have holidays that include eating goat.  Targeting just before these holidays will draw the best prices.

OP, we good or do you want me to open another thread?  Up to you.

No problem! We all can learn

I just looked at the area where I'd want them to be using the GE polygon tool.  Heavily grown over, about 1.5 acres +/-.  Since goats need company, I'd get just two, preferably female.  Let them eat/browse down the shrubbery, then butcher them.  No long term movement or pastures or anything like that.

The only real problem is the fence - about 1200' feet or so.  That's a bunch of time and/or money for just a couple goats.  

I appreciate the shared knowledge.  We are rapidly approaching moving out to our property and we have been interested in goats.  I will continue to read this thread for information.  Thanks OP for letting this develop into an open discussion.

I agree on the fencing, you would need 4 rolls of the 4x4 goat fence, and applicable wood posts and t-posts for the fencing.  That being said, it depends on what you want to accomplish long-term with the goats.  To just clear the area only once, it may be more economical to tether the goats on dog tie-outs and move them as needed until the area has been cleared.  Just make sure to keep water in the tie-out radius if you go this way.

If you are looking to have them as more of a long-term sustainability option, then I would suggest buying a couple does, and add a breeding buck.  The area would be sufficient for those goats, and provide you with a renewable resources of feeders for slaughter.  That might make the fencing costs more palatable.  A does first freshening will generally result in a single kid, but going forward the most common will be 2 kids.  That would be typically be 4 goats per year, which would provide 80-100 pounds of meat per year if you slaughter at the 55-60 pound mark.

If you decided to go this direction, you could cross-fence that area into two .75 acre areas and be able to provide some rotation.  For a small operation, that wouldn't be bad.  It would add some more fencing cost to the project, it just really depends on your long-term goals.

Another option may be to go with a milking breed of goats for long-term sustainability.  Nigerian Dwarf or Nubian are generally the best bet in this regard.  Nigerian Dwarf goats have the highest butter-fat content, and their size to milk ratio makes them an ideal choice.  The Nubian goats have less butter-fat content, but provide a larger amount of milk per day as they are a larger breed.  I personally prefer goat milk to cow milk now, and making butter and goat cheese is relatively easy.

More good stuff, thanks!

just had this one pop out two days ago and a few more yesterday from anther goat.
Lots of fun!

Good looking kid!  Looks like a lot of Nubian in them.  My kidding season just wrapped up with the final births a few days ago also.

Finally managed to order and receive Ivermectin and dosed the new goats. We have continued the Zinc regime and loose minerals.

I purchased a hang-on divided feeding tray and had been giving the minerals daily. I hung it so they have to stand on their hind legs to eat and fastened it so it wouldn't dump.

They seem more perky and gave been browsing heavily. It is funny to see them clear out the poison ivy first, then attacking the blackberry brambles eating it like spaghetti.
No hunching when peeing and no loose bowels so digestive system seems okay.

That's great.  Just keep an eye on their FAMACHA every couple weeks, and be prepared to deworm again in a month.  It does take time for the red blood cells to be replaced, so as long as their coloration doesn't get worse, you're good.

I would be careful with the zinc, as it can reach toxic levels and alter the absorption of other minerals.  If you've been dosing with 1 capsule per day, I'd cut that off and give the goat a couple weeks and watch for an improvement in their fur condition.

Will do. We move them daily so they can clear the built up overgrowth. With the dry conditions we have been having the reintroduction will be lower. No animals have been on the property for several decades.

Fixing up the barn area is next on the agenda so we can move them to a more permanent housing area. Right now they are in a 10x10 kennel cage which we move every few days.

I went to a local feed store looking for roll fencing and was quoted 430. for 48"x200' roll of 4x4 wire. TSC had the same for 290. and t-posts 3.00 cheaper so I will be picking that up today. Dang galvanized butterfly clamps for the kennel were 8.00 each @ Lowes and I needed 12 it helped with my 10% .mil discount but sheesh

Lumber prices have been getting me right in the feelz too

TSC is where I get all of my fencing supplies as well.  The 4x4 rolls of 48" are 330' as well.  The availability of fencing is getting pretty bad, I bought the last 4 rolls of 4x4 fencing the other day, and now there is no TSC within 50 miles that has any in stock.  Even the local CO-OPs are out of stock, at their higher prices.  Just another shortage to add to the list.

Goat owner here.  Another option for worming is Levamisole (prohibit).  Give as a drench, repeat in 10-14 days to kill the eggs of the worms.  1tsp of powder into 35ml water.  Give 6cc/100lbs.

We have 6 goats, and just had 3 kids pop (so 9 goats so far).  3 more mommas are ready to kid any day now.  We use them as property management tools, and pets.  This year we got a solar powered fence charger, and circled a new area for them to eat.  Once we got them used to the electric fence, life got a bit easier with fencing.  We have a 110v plug in charger (only $35), but the solar unit is more flexible, even if more money. Just something to consider.

Quick update:
I created a paddock for the goats to roam and graze/clear which they have been doing in spectacular fashion. Their coats are improving and darkening as well. They seem pretty happy in the paddock as they are running and jumping about.

I hadn't thought of checking their eyes against the chart until the other day, but I was feeding them a few cups of grain and they didn't want to be bothered with me. I'll give them a good looking over this weekend.

That's great, sounds like you're on the right track.  Try to make an effort to touch them when you can to get them used to human contact.  It'll make checking their eyes much easier in the long run.

Great thread.

I am looking to get into goats for land management/meat. I have some pasture and a lot of forest land in the Kiamichi Mountains in OK. I was thinking Spanish goats for this area and primarily brush control.

I had to look up the Kiamichi Mountains.  It looks like you have quite of bit of annual rainfall there as well as high humidity, perfect breeding grounds for the barber pole worms.  The Spanish goats may do alright, or may require careful parasite management.  Just depends on what genetics are at play.  I would suggest you look into the Kiko breed as stated above. I have had very good results with the Kiko parasite resistance, as I have similar annual rainfall and humidity to where you're at.

Well my son bought 5 fainter bucks. He banded 4 and kept a super nice one for a buck. And he just bought 4 Kiko doelings tonight. He’s researching when they will be old enough to bread and is going to start a little meat goat herd

Goats have the possibility of being ready to breed within 3 months of birth, though that can vary wildly.  I prefer to expose the does to the buck in mid to late November, which brings births after the last cold snaps in spring.

Thank you for the info. They were born the first of February so we didn’t know how old they need to be to breed. Seems to be a lot of opinions on it.

We have been keeping up with checking the eye color with the FAMACHA chart and they seem to becoming more pink.

They seem to be pretty happy and are voracious eaters which is awesome because we have lots for them to munch on. It is fun to see them attack and destroy poison oak and ivy. The young volunteer saplings are another favorite too. Blackberry brambles and honeysuckle have no chance if they find a patch. Watching them learn how to walk down a sapling to strip the leaves is hilarious.

Lots going on, the home is being renovated so it pulls me away from my  projects. I am in the building phase of creating a new more permanent one where the derelict barn is located.

Trying to use what posts are set, cutting fallen trees and removing new growth. The goats are helping with that. I will lead them out and tether them on lead lines and give them a large bucket of water then lead them back to their pen later in the day.

I like the new goat additions others have posted. Learning lots and having fun.

Go ahead and join the goat spot, I learned tons. Good on famacah check. Buy a microscope, lens and plates, make a simple salt solution and keep eye on fecal samples.

Also Noone has mention red cell, horse iron supplement,  cheap and good to keep on hand, vitamin b12 crushed and mixed with it (forget how much maybe tablespoon, and tiny bit of honey. Is a good upper if they are pale pink when checked.

Research it's covered good over there, they would remember Bansil and Andrious, I'm sure ??

Red Cell iron supplement has been added to the shopping list.

For those reading I found that one should administer Red Cell to goats @ 6ccs per 100 lbs.

I prefer the injectable iron over using the red cell (plus I keep it on hand for the piglets).  I discovered that only a small amount of the iron from the red cell is absorbed, and the rest passes out of their system.  I also wanted to note that the B vitamin that you're looking for is B12.  The common injectable B vitamin in the stores is B-Complex, which has some B12, but not enough unless you use massive doses, which isn't as cost effective as just getting a vial of B12 from the vet.  Another plus to the B12 is that you cannot overdose them on it, any excess that they can't use simply passes out of their system.

As for watching the FAMACHA, the color improves slowly.  It takes them quite a while to generate new red blood cells.  Just make sure that it's heading in the right direction and you'll be good.

Also wanted to comment on the fecal analysis.  I purchased the equipment to do my own fecals, but ended up going with FAMACHA eventually.  Running the fecals on a large amount of goats is very time consuming, and 99% of the time any health issues I've run into are due to the barber pole worms.  It's not to say its not a good tool in the tool kit, but I don't use it nearly as much as I used to.  Much easier to just check the eye color, treat, and move on.