What do you thing the minimun general all around caliber for plains game?

The reason I ask.

On one hand, eveyone seems to say "what you shoot your best" and say bring the 30-06 or even 270, but they also lean rather heavily toward 7mm Rem Mag or 300 magums, perhaps even a 338 when asked to mention a caliber by name.

But when asking the SAME people what should my son or wife shoot, they often say 7mm-08 or 308.  As if that kudu or gemsbok knows the gender of the shooter!

So I say.....7mm-08.

Duplicates the 7X57 which has a long african heritage, has good ballistics and an excellent bullet selection available.  It can be handloaded to a tolerable level for pretty much anyone. Tied would be the .308.  

The.243 and .260 are a tad too light for me and the variety of bullets arent there.

It think 7mm rem mag gives the best over all performance. That being said it's better to have your PH chase some half dead things shot with 7mm-08 then have your wife and daughter start complaining on a $100,000 trip.

A buddy of mine took his trusty Winchester Model 70 in 30-06 and had not problem taking all manner of plains game.

When you say, "plains game", the mental images can really vary. If you're talking about impala, wildebeest, gerenuk, gazelles, bushbuck, reedbuck, duiker, hartebeest, nyala, topi, warthog, ect, an acceptable caliber can differ significantly than when you throw in eland, sable, oryx, waterbuck, or even a zebra.
A .300WM or the like is a great choice, but even that can look small if you're chasing a 2,000 lb eland.
If you'll have a buffalo on the menu and an eland, a two-gun battery will serve you well. Find out what you'll be hunting and arm accordingly.

In Africa fast aint best! Most P.h.'s I know get a big laugh out of 7 mm Remington mags .300 Winchester mags. and most of Weatherby's magnums. They would be fine in open place like Nambia but for the bush the such. Now of course you can down load a 7 mm mag., but why? 2400 fps is a magic number for africa. Get a copy of The Perfect Shot if you do not believe me.

One of the guys there once said the worst client is a big mouth Texan with a fast gun and a muzzle brake who cannot shoot. Last two trips my P.H's didnt even bring their guns when we went out.

Now I aint saying there are not plenty of guides & outfitters that cannot stick your ass in a blind over a water hole or let you shoot from the truck. This asshat & his fucktard father that was in camp last trip needed on guy in the air flying an ultralight locating while the other drove around waiting for shit to cross the road.

Originally Posted By oldfool: In Africa fast aint best! Most P.h.'s I know get a big laugh out of 7 mm Remington mags .300 Winchester mags. and most of Weatherby's magnums. They would be fine in open place like Nambia but for the bush the such. Now of course you can down load a 7 mm mag., but why? 2400 fps is a magic number for africa. Get a copy of The Perfect Shot if you do not believe me.

That's really interesting. From my association with a wide variety of highly experienced safari hunters, not to mention my own hunts in Chirisa and Lemco in Zimbabwe and Monduli and Moyowosi in Tanzania, where I've hunted most every species of plains game and the assorted dangerous game all the way up to lion, with all respect I've never heard of anyone disregard the calibers you mentioned. Maybe I just chat with the wrong people. That said, as you probably know, the most concentrated accumulation of safari hunters on the internet is by far at accuratereloading.com.  It would be interesting to read the responses you get from the bulk of the world's safari hunters after you explained that rifles in the .300 caliber range are laughed at in Africa.
In case you need it, here's the link to that site.
The mid-sized calibers you mentioned would certainly be inappropriate for some larger species and illegal for others, but for the standard white-tailed-sized plains game, there's no difference in shooting such in Africa with a .300 caliber bullet and whacking one here at home.
The only time a larger gun would be needed at a moment's notice is when walking in the bush when dangerous game hunting. You'll always have .375 or larger at that point. If you're hunting blinds and waterholes, however, that means you're hunting on a game ranch. Hunting in fences isn't my preference, but you can generally rest assured that when hunting in such a spot dangerous game will be almost non-existent as the landowners don't release such there, unless of course you're talking about pen-raised lions in the RSA which  few hunters endorse.
My point is that I love having a mid-sized gun on safari and see no reason to question their ideal performance on game for which they are suited.

Kudu and Eland are tough game. I'd go larger than the .270 for sure. LIke anything it's shot placement. I say bring what you shoot the best. For me, that's a .300 Weatherby Magnum so it's plenty heavy and I can place th ebullet anywhere I need to within 800 yards.

That said, you'll never go wrong with a .375 H&H in Africa!

Make sure you pay attention to what the PH's like as far as bullets. I've heard them give ammo to hunters that brought something else. They like the tough bullets like Barnes X etc.

A friend has had great success with 7x57 and 30-06. When shooting eland the guide made him use a borrowed .375.

In case you need it, here's the link to that site.

I will not be needing your link to that hook nosed little arab Saeed Al Maktoum web site as there are more armchair bwanas there then anywhere in the world. From the places you have named seems you been there and done that as well.

Having lived at one time in Rhodesia then RSA I still know a few chaps that have hunted about africa. Now not having to pay for my hunting other then buying some booze, food & petrol  and my travel to & from I guess the things I hear could very well differ from your experiances.

Yes you can indeed hunt with a 7 mm Rem. mag. Hell people kill everything over there with snares as well. I for one will not be taking a snare, spear 7 mag nor bow & arrow.

oldfool,
I respect your opinion, but every safari company I've ever dealt with and the overwhelming consensus of other experienced safari hunters with which I am in regular contact remain of the opinion that a mid-sized caliber is ideal for plains game. If you're a decent shot it just doesn't take a cannon to drop a 300 or less pound animal. That said, considering we hunt 800 lb elk here in the USA with a .300 or so being the most common choice for them, in Africa we could easily use such a caliber for something well over 300 lbs.
Only if you're talking buffalo, lion, ele, eland, hippo, and such would a larger bore be necessary, though I like a bigger gun for sable and waterbuck.  For those PH's you suggested that "laugh" at the mid-sized guns that almost every African hunter has in tow, I would suspect they would embrace a hunter that wisely shoots what he can shoot well as compared to can't. When hunting placid plains game that are about the same size of whitetails, I highly doubt hunters would earn that chuckle you mentioned.
For a one-gun safari that includes larger species, take a .375, but considering most hunters take two, a mid-sized gun along with a big bore is the preference throughout the industry.
On my last 21-day hunt in TZ, my .300 got most of the work. When in the Selous next year, I'll be hunting dangerous game almost exclusively and that balance will change as my 470NE stays busy, but the .300 will still get its opportunities.  

50BMG

springhill,
Let me ask you in your .300 what weight bullt are you shooting? And what are the FPS that you are driving it? You have to remember that both the 7mm rem. mag. and the .300 win mag were developed for North America. Both are know for long range flat shooting.

Now in the african bush the only things that I ever shot long range were jackels @ 200 yards. For the most part on plains game I have never shot farther then 50 yards. I do admit I prefer walking & stalking to any other method of hunting. Having lived in Texas for the past 25 years I never have understood the hunting from tower stand over feeder at ranges from twenty yards out to 300 yards. What many of the P.h.'s I know find are these such hunters. They are great shots at long range with a rock solid rest, or way over gunned at close range. They cannot shoot standing or after walking a few miles. One of my favorite stories is of a gun writer from the Houston area that could not handle carrying his own gun as he never did any farther then from his atv to his stand.

As mentioned earlier many down right hate muzzle brakes as they tend to want the hunter resting the rifle on their shoulder when shooting. Screw the shooting sticks as they weight as much as a lime, flask of gin, can of tonic water and a good cigar w/ lighter. As you know the closer to the brake the loader it tends to be.

I'vee seen many a biltong hunter armed with a silenced .222. Then again these are chaps that do it much more then any of us yanks.

The point of the post was to look at minimums, not best or recommended.

I was trying (unsuccessfully) to point out the irony you often see when someone brags about all his kills with his ubermagnum whatever and in the same article or post proudly displays the trophies his wife, son or daughter shot with a 7mm-08 or other such caliber.

Oh well.

How about .30-30? .30-30 AI to squeeze out some more preformance?
I think it'd be interesting to take a levergun to africa, in spite of of the guys with ultra-magnums.

Of course, if I ever saved up enough cash I'd probably take a .375 H&H or such.

Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck: The point of the post was to look at minimums, not best or recommended. I was trying (unsuccessfully) to point out the irony you often see when someone brags about all his kills with his ubermagnum whatever and in the same article or post proudly displays the trophies his wife, son or daughter shot with a 7mm-08 or other such caliber. Oh well.

It wasn't lost on me, I wrote replys twice and deleted them twice.

As with all hunting, shot placement is way more important than caliber.

A .308, .270, 30-06 and up would have easily smoked any plains animals I saw in Africa.

In fact an Eland and Kudu and Gemsbok all fell to a .270 that one of the hunters I was with, was shooting.

Looking at those animals on the skinning pole, led me to believe the .270 was plenty deadly.

Originally Posted By krpind: Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck: The point of the post was to look at minimums, not best or recommended. I was trying (unsuccessfully) to point out the irony you often see when someone brags about all his kills with his ubermagnum whatever and in the same article or post proudly displays the trophies his wife, son or daughter shot with a 7mm-08 or other such caliber. Oh well. It wasn't lost on me, I wrote replys twice and deleted them twice. As with all hunting, shot placement is way more important than caliber. A .308, .270, 30-06 and up would have easily smoked any plains animals I saw in Africa. In fact an Eland and Kudu and Gemsbok all fell to a .270 that one of the hunters I was with, was shooting. Looking at those animals on the skinning pole, led me to believe the .270 was plenty deadly.

So true. Shot placement is everything. The last trip a firts timer was hunting with us. He paid for two gemsbuck that he never saw again after he shot them with his 7mm Mag. He admitted that he was not aiming carefully and only aimed at the front half if the animals. My wife and daughter who both use a 7mm Mauser have never lost an animal. They know where the heart is and aim for it.

Shot placement on African game is key.  I hunted South Africa in '06 and took all my animals with a 300 Win Mag (180gr Barnes TSX bullets at 3056fps) and a 338 Win Mag (with Barnes 225gr TSX bullets at 2746fps).  Killed several impala, warthog, blesbuck, kudu and waterbuck.

Shot my 1st impala at 30 yards with the 300, square through both the shoulders, it still ran 50 yards...these animals have a strong survival instinct.

7-08 with quality bullets should do the trick if the guy on the trigger does his part.  

One piece of advice, get some shooting sticks and practive off of the sticks as much as possible before you go.  I bought take down sticks from Long Grass Outfitters and took them with me.  Most every shot you take will be from the sticks, and it is a different skill than shooting off the bench.

Originally Posted By duecemag: Shot placement on African game is key.  I hunted South Africa in '06 and took all my animals with a 300 Win Mag (180gr Barnes TSX bullets at 3056fps) and a 338 Win Mag (with Barnes 225gr TSX bullets at 2746fps).  Killed several impala, warthog, blesbuck, kudu and waterbuck. Shot my 1st impala at 30 yards with the 300, square through both the shoulders, it still ran 50 yards...these animals have a strong survival instinct. 7-08 with quality bullets should do the trick if the guy on the trigger does his part.   One piece of advice, get some shooting sticks and practive off of the sticks as much as possible before you go.  I bought take down sticks from Long Grass Outfitters and took them with me.  Most every shot you take will be from the sticks, and it is a different skill than shooting off the bench.

That is entirely up to you. If you get off the bench at the gun range and do all your practice shooting off hand and from field positions then you will almost never need the sticks. The bench is to sight in the scope and once that is done get off of it. You won't find any shooting benches in the bush. The PH, and the animals you are shooting at don't care if your rifle is capable of minute-of-angle accuracy off the bench. What is really important is that you are able to shoot quickly off hand at 75 yards after a quick stalk and hit a paper plate size target every time. Then you will get your game.

Bench shooting is great practice for shooting out of a box blind at a whitetail 200 yards down a sendero. Off hand shooting at 75 yards is great practice for most African hunting.

Originally Posted By krpind: As with all hunting, shot placement is way more important than caliber. A .308, .270, 30-06 and up would have easily smoked any plains animals I saw in Africa. In fact an Eland and Kudu and Gemsbok all fell to a .270 that one of the hunters I was with, was shooting.

I just got back from a 7 Day Hunt in South Africa with my Dad, I used a .308 with great results, the Zebra I took down was with one shot, from my 700 VS in .308 with 180 grain Nosler Partions, I hit my Zebra at 187 yards or so and the bullet still went through and through

Now my Blue Wildebeest was a tough one, I shot him low enough but not far enough back to hit the heart, he didn't want to go down but if we waited it out he would of bleed out quickly

I hope to get some pics and explanations of my shots in the next few days, but it was all out shot placement, I know the best place to aim in the lower shoulder, or 1/3 but I had to shots that hit the spine, and I liked seeing those as they went down fast.

Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner: you will almost never need the sticks. The bench is to sight in the scope and once that is done get off of it. You won't find any shooting benches in the bush.

Our PH didn't even carry sticks, we used trees to rest the guns on, or even some times an animal was taken with the use of someones shoulder

DBerk - I can't wait for the details and pics. The 30 caliber 180 grain Nosler Partition is one of my very favorite bullets. It is a real go-to bullet for big stuff. I wish I chould have seen the zebra go down after taking one.

Originally Posted By DBerk: Originally Posted By krpind: As with all hunting, shot placement is way more important than caliber. A .308, .270, 30-06 and up would have easily smoked any plains animals I saw in Africa. In fact an Eland and Kudu and Gemsbok all fell to a .270 that one of the hunters I was with, was shooting.   I just got back from a 7 Day Hunt in South Africa with my Dad, I used a .308 with great results, the Zebra I took down was with one shot, from my 700 VS in .308 with 180 grain Nosler Partions, I hit my Zebra at 187 yards or so and the bullet still went through and through Now my Blue Wildebeest was a tough one, I shot him low enough but not far enough back to hit the heart, he didn't want to go down but if we waited it out he would of bleed out quickly I hope to get some pics and explanations of my shots in the next few days, but it was all out shot placement, I know the best place to aim in the lower shoulder, or 1/3 but I had to shots that hit the spine, and I liked seeing those as they went down fast. Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner: you will almost never need the sticks. The bench is to sight in the scope and once that is done get off of it. You won't find any shooting benches in the bush. Our PH didn't even carry sticks, we used trees to rest the guns on, or even some times an animal was taken with the use of someones shoulder

Congats DBerk. Sounds like you had a great time.
I can't wait to see your pics.

Here's a good discussion of safari calibers by Robin Hurt of Robin Hurt Safaris, one of the finest and most respected safari companies in Tanzania:


Firearms and Ammunition
RHS strongly suggest that you bring your own firearms and ammunition. You may import three guns into Tanzania for your hunting safari. Handguns, together with automatic and semi-automatic guns are not allowed. Most of your shooting will be done with a medium rifle, from .264 to .300 magnum. Favourite calibres for dangerous game are the .375 H&H Magnum, the .416 Rigby and the .470 Express. For long range shooting, telescopic sights are ideal. Some hunters take a spare scope already mounted in its rings. Licence for dangerous game will not be issued unless the safari client is in possession of a firearms licence covering a rifle of .375 or larger. Tanzania Law requires a minimum of .240 for all other game.

You are permitted to import 200 cartridges in each different calibre or gauge, which is ample. RHS recommend a minimum of 60 rounds for each rifle if you are an experienced marksman and plan to take an average quota of game. For the medium rifle, reliable bonded soft nose bullets are ideal. Include some half soft points and half "solids" of the heaviest available bullet weight for your heavy rifle. RHS maintains a limited stock of ammunition, sporting rifles and shotguns, which may be rented.

Whatever the calibre, ammunition should be loaded with bullets designed for large animals. If you are a hand loader, consider such bullets as Trophy Bonded Bearclaw. RHS recommend all clients check-fire their rifles upon arrival in the bush before shooting at game. Be certain your medium rifle is sighted in to strike zero at 200 yards (183m) and the heavy rifle at 100 yards (91m).

Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner: DBerk - I wish I chould have seen the zebra go down after taking one.

I know, I wish we had taken videos, but we thought having 4 of us (2 of us, ph, and tracker) all staring at the animals while one was about to shoot was enough movement without a shiney digital camera taking a video. we were also just to excited watching the other persons animals in our Binoculars go down

He started out running kind of strong but the PH we were with for the day could tell he was hurt, he He ran in almost a complete circle for 60 feet, during the run he hit a tree, broke half of the tree off, kept running and droped about 5 feet from where he was shot (circle thing), when we inspected him he was an old stallion, teeth were bad, almost gone so it was a good thing

At first I didn't want to shoot a Zebra when I was in the states, I thought of it as a horse, and by the second night there I reliazed that I would remember Africa best from a Zebra rug, and after hunting them, its no horse, haha

Originally Posted By krpind: Congats DBerk. Sounds like you had a great time.

Had an awesome time, im gonna type up my animal list now but it will take a lil bit to upload good pics (we didn't use digital for most of the us with animals pics) so I will have to look for those

Zebra are always interesting. They either take off, sometimes never to be seen a gain, or put on a show before going down, after taking a bullet. This zebra picture always makes me smile. It is my buddy and his zebra. The whole trip sorta went like this.

When I went I took 2 guns. My first shot there was at 270 yards over the sticks at an Impala. He got nailed. I come to find that this is rather a rare shot as my longest shot after that was 120 yards. Oh and they didn't like my 7mm mag. They like 30/06. .308 and 375's.

After shooting 3 animals with the 7 I switched to my BUG and proceded to take another 6 animals. This was stuff like Kudu, Zebra, Blue Wildebeast, Red Heartebeast. My BUG?? It is a Rem mod. 7 in .308. I used plain Rem corelocks 180 grain. It dropped everything like lightning. The gun is a lot smaller and lightwer than my 7mm mag. and the PH's fell in love with it. Just hit the pocket and the game is down.

If I were going to use one gun it would definately be a .375 H&H, another African favorite. I am planning another trip for Cape Buff and thats what I am taking for that trip. Hope this helps somewhat.

I have friends who've only taken their 45/70 with the 18.5 in brl  
and their .308 Scout rifles...

I really love my 45/70 but....

I think I would take those and try to add a .375 H&H or a .416 Rigby

The advantage of something like a .30-06 is also measured in how easy it is to get ammo over there in case yours doesn't make it.  Take something odd and you may have an expensive club for 1-2 weeks.

On my last safari I had shots as close as 20yds for Kudu & Duiker (hunting an area much like South Texas brush) out to 430yds for springbok in an open range.  I used a .300WSM with 165gr Barnes X with great sucess.  No animals lost and no long treks after wounded game.  

I personally feel any hunter should hunt with what they feel most comfortable with and shoot well (as long as it meet the requirements set forth by the govt.) and talk to your PH.

As for what was said before, my PH had a .300, and others in camp used 30-06 and a 7mm STW.  All fairly flat shooting calibers, but that was the area we were hunting.

9.3 X 62 Mauser.

Bet you can find ammo in almost any African country that allows hunting!

7mm-08 is the correct answer for minimum caliber

It doesn't do anything .308 doesn't do at 200m, and it's harder to find. And, if I were to take a seven, it would be the 7 Mauser.

you are correct with the 7mm-08

I ended up taking a 7x57 for my son.

Killed everything he aimed at.

I don’t know how you resurrected this thread but since I commented here I’ve been to Africa with a 9,3 and it was magnificent.

While I took an 8x68S (8mm Magnum) along with my 30-06 on my first safari, it wasn’t necessary.

My eland, wildebeest, and kudu would have just as easily fallen to my 06 and 165 gr TSX.

In my subsequent trips over the largest thing I have used was an 06 and on my last trip I took a 6.5x55 and 130 TSX.

In total I have shot close to 50 animals over there and have never wished for more than my 06 on plains game.

You click 'reply', type something, then hit 'submit'.

Going to go with 7x57.
We didn't own anything larger than 30-06 on the farm and we shot just about anyhing on 4 legs with .22lr, .223, .308, 7x57, 30-06 and .410! I can tell you from personal experience that a FAL will take down leopard as easy as impala, kudu or bushbuck. The 7x57 would more than likely do better. Crazy penetration on that round and I can only imagine that it is much better with the newer bullet technology.

I never had an issue with either .303 or 30-06 from impala to zebra. I have taken elk with a 30-06 as well. DRT, with a rifle my dad had killed a lot of AZ elk with.
I might be tentative going after Eland, but I would go bigger caliber, not faster.
In my mind, once you get a certain speed at a certain caliber and bullet weight, anything else is while not wasted, you start hitting pretty stiff diminishing returns. Magnum rifles are useful for hitting that magic energy at further range.

My Dad went on safari a few years ago and went 6-for-6 one-shot kills with his .270.  Kudu, Zebra, Gemsbok, Red Hartebeest, Impala, and Warthog.

Shot placement is definitely a deciding factor.  The PH wasn't sure he'd brought enough gun for the Zebra and Kudu.  Turns out he did.  
The PH was convinced enough after that, he let him cull some animals for camp meat, too.

My PH in Namibia liked to shoot plains game with .243 lol.