I posted something in Pavelow's thread about his leach field that was meant for everyone who might need it, and realized later I should have just done a thread on it so anybody can ask questions.

We have several people here in Homestead/Garden  with a LOT of knowledge of landscape plants, design, and installation techniques.  Some have more knowledge of new cultivars than I do.  I'm good with design and problem solving and general knowledge. Some here have more knowledge of turfgrass and turfgrass maintenance than I do.  Pretty much ANY landscaper knows more about his/her own region, weather patterns, climate zone and the plants that do well there, than someone from outside.

I'll put my post to Pavelow here in the next post, to get started.

Everyone who works in hort, please join in to add your thoughts, ideas and knowledge.

Anyone struggling, and anything from ornamental plant problems to landscape design and planning (heck, even if you want to turn your veggie garden into something like an English knot garden--not sayin' I know how to do that, but still) ....

Ask them here.

DESIGN AND PLACEMENT OF ISLAND ORNAMENTAL/FLOWER BEDS

Pavelow asked in a thread about ideas for landscaping around pipe stick ups, and was trying to decide on a type of installation (raised bed or not), and of course I can't shut up about this stuff, so I went WAY beyond what he asked.

I see questions about this all the time, though, and I watch people struggle a lot.... so I'm foing.

NOTE:  I've made EVERY LAST ONE of these mistakes (okay not the tree mound one), and I still maintain my old fashioned flower bed with the faerie ring "bombshell" rocks (geods) around the perimeter, at my mom's house, because it's nostalgic and I love it.  It's ugly in the winter and weedy around the edges because it needs trimmed twice a week and that's not happening.

The only reason I know how to do professional looking beds now is that I trained for the profession.  Homeowners all over the place make these "design mistakes," and all this is, is an attempt to help anybody who has landscaped and is disappointed in what they've done, or wants to landscape and needs a boost of guidance.    

Bad landscape design is not wrong, and is still better than a house plopped down with none.  It just (nearly always) is.  

The truth is, there is a trend now for some landscape companies to do some of this stuff, and to do it badly, because they either don't have a designer or have one who (sorry to say it but it's true) isn't very good, and some of the photos below that I put "no" on--were done by landscaping firms (mostly, when you're in business to make money, and you do installation and sales of materials, you do what the customer wants, and if they're not inclined to take your advice, you do what they want.)

So...anyway...some thoughts on flower bed layout and design...  


Now then...

When a bed is out in the middle of the yard, putting a "tall" edge of any kind around it actually isolates it.  It calls attention to it and tends to make the bed stick out, rather than integrate into the landscape around it.

This bed will certainly look better later in the summer when it's all filled in, but still...that edge is not helping it at all.  It's this big, heavy element that is attached to nothing and has no reason for being.  The FLOWERS may be beautiful, but the bed and the overall effect will never be as beautiful as it could be.




Yes.  See how even though it's an island bed, it feels like "part" of the landscape?  



Stone, brick, or other edging for beds tends to work best around either the very edges of the property, so it's a step-down from a fence, hedge, or other border, or next to a structure, so it acts as a separating "terrace" of a sort.

These work because they are a border between a man-made thing and a natural thing.  Notice that they are all gently curved.  The curves are not sudden or deep. They are shallow. Easy. Like a stream meanders or a cow walks or a path through woods winds between the trees.    Take your garden hose and lay out the bed.  Stand back and look at it.  One good question to ask is..."could I make that turn into that curve and back out with my (tractor type) lawnmower without backing up?"  If not, the curve is too tight and will likely not look natural.  You may have to go "bigger" with the bed to make the curves work easily.






Raised beds, when used as purely ornamental elements, need to be attached to something usually.


Yes.




Yes, mostly.





No.  Though the tree is lovely and the hanging basket is a nice touch.






To everyone:  I will hunt you down, and I will bring @ar-jedi with me.  I will smack you, but he will do far worse things to you if you do this.  ETA:  We feel this way because this is not only bad design, its BAD FOR THE TREE.  For a lot of reasons, too many to go into right here.  Don't. Do. It.





So if you want edging around beds in a yard, and you hate the plastic stuff, you can get bricks, lay them side to side (or even end to end) but SINK THEM INTO THE GROUND so they don't stick up.  This helps the grass not grow into them, it defines the beds,  it allows you to run over the edging with the mower so you don't have to use the string trimmer,  but it allows the plants to grow at the level the plants would naturally grow.  


This is not terrible.  The bed itself is well done. I doubt it fits the landscape around it, but I don't know that, and it's a good illustration of stone laid flat.  It also is a nice setting for that gorgeous, twisted trunk.   If I had to do the ever-popular faerie-ring pattern around something, I would have sunk the stone slightly deeper.  Don't pile stuff up around trees.  It's bad for them.







In truth, if I was driving down the street and saw that, above,  I would slow down and look at that and go, "wow, that's beautiful." BUT...I would be looking at JUST THE FLOWER BED.  I would not be commenting on how it fit into or enhanced the home or surrounding landscape.


This post is about doing all three--making it beautiful, making it fit into and enhance the home and the landscape in which the home is placed.

Moving on....
Island beds installed at ground level with no hard siding help integrate the bed, and the home itself, into the landscape around it.



These are demonstration gardens, thus the odd placement and lots of beds..BUT...note how they still look nice, because of the gentle, natural curves and the in-ground placement.

And for anyone interested, that is the proper way to mulch around a tree.  I like a larger circle, but even a small one works, done correctly,.




Stacked rock in this setting works great as edging here, because it has a "reason to be"--it's holding back the edge of a grade.



In general, berms should be used only if they will look like God put them there.  They should not be installed in the middle of an open area where they will end up looking like a field of burial mounds.   (I have designed berms that went against this principle in subdivisions, and it was done strictly to create a privacy wall on a budget where twelve-foot plants were not an option. It is seldom the best solution.  But there is ALWAYS an exception to nearly every rule...except the one about piling shit up around the trunk of a tree.  There are no exceptions to that. )



If you already HAVE raised beds with hard edging somewhere, or if you need to raise the beds for some reason (either practical or design related) you can integrate THOSE beds into the existing landscape by planting mounding shrubs and other ornamentals around the outside edges of the installed hardscape (I'm including wood in this term), and creating a "bed around a bed" which is an awesome effect, but is more time consuming and expensive.

No..




Better...

If the faerie ring pattern must be used, this is the way to do it.  As in-proportion to the size of the tree as possible, flush with the ground, and with lush plantings beneath (usually).




No.  Just...no.




ETA: It is usually preferable to make beds NOT exactly round, or NOT exactly any particular geometric shape, for the typical American home.  If your home is the White House,  or an equivalent structure (very formal, very symmetrical, and very "weighty")  this does not apply.  

For the rest of us...Make beds curve.  Nature does not do straight lines.  To integrate our straight-lined buildings into the landscape, curves serve us better  in our landscape design.  Slow, easy, gentle curves.

That kidney shape demonstrated in some of the beds above...it's useful.

For the same reason, the typical American landscape should not include bushes pruned into the shape of gumballs, pyramids, squares, or other geometric forms.  It's just too formal.  Our homes usually look better surrounded by more naturally shaped landscape elements.

There is ALWAYS an exception.  Always.*****


I will now shut up.

Ask Questions.


*****Except, you know...to piling crap around the base of the tree, in case you missed it the other six times I said it.

I would not try to keep a full size fruit tree of any kind much smaller than it is meant to be.

You DO need to prune it.  And pruning fruit trees is kind of a specialty.  You can do it yourself. It's not that it's hard. But you have to understand what you're after with the pruning.  You're after good tree structure, and I can talk more about that, with fruit trees. (Incidentally, every fruit tree is a little different in what makes its structure best for fruit production).  There is more than one school of thought on pruning for fruit production, but professionals agree within those parameters, that those schools of thought are best.  

What you're after with any tree is NEVER "try to keep it smaller" because the cuts you make cause the new growth to manifest in unfortunate ways, (growing straight up, usually) and that wood will be weak. It's equivalent to topping, which is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from good pruning.

So....tell me exactly what variety of sweet cherry you have (if you've still got the tag on it, or know what you ordered) and I'll help you with placement.   If it's anything like the cherries I have, I'd say you need to give it room for about a 30' spread without hitting another tree, but that may be dead wrong, since I don't know what you've got.

Full sun.  That's true for almost any fruit tree.  

So...if you want pretty, put that tree somewhere in the open, then plant other, dwarf trees of some kind, around it.  You'll have a really nice (and longer) spring show during cherry blossom season.  (because each variety will bloom at slightly different times.)

In the meantime, here is a good write up (simple write up--not a lot of technical stuff here, but you can get that once you know your variety) on Pruning Cherry Trees

ETA: Woops I missed a question.  I think around a hundred feet or so would be plenty close for pollination.  Especially since you have bees.

Don't know if any of this is a help. Ask more if not.

What are you going to do wtih the area where you're about to foist this intrusion upon your hard clay?  (It's a good thing, by the way, amending your soil that way.)

Oh wow, yes to everything you're doing.

That's a gorgeous garden.  Having different levels is such a positive thing, and helps make any garden more interesting.

Your climbers are lovely.  You've either got a better climate, or more talent, with climbers than I have.  

So...I see the stone patio.  What are you thinking of with the deck exactly?  Making it where it would encompass the area WHERE the steps are?  Which would make your steps come nearly to the gate (from right to left in the photo) and would they still be oriented in the same direction?  Or would they be turned toward the back fence if you extend the deck?

Without seeing your yard NOT torn up, my design inclination is as follows:

1-You will be putting back a small bit of grass, correct?  

2-Make the annual beds NOT raised, but edge them with a little edging "ditch" (you know what I mean by that?) or with stone sunk into the ground (match the stone of patio and path) in a curvy design that goes all the way around the four sides of the patio (interrupted by the path through the gate, which should be wider than you might think.)  

That way you can plant annuals  in the ground all the way around, including under the big climbers.  A climbing, scented rose (an easy-care, old-fashioned one prefereably) would be lovely intertwining with that Clematis.  Do hostas grow where you are?  Clumps of hosta with impatiens under the big climbers some astilbe in the shaded corners, and more sun-loving annuals in that open space at the back.  A big pot or two on the patio and enlarged deck.  Pots of annuals going up the deck steps.  

*sigh*

I love your yard, can you tell?  I'm going for the old fashioned English Cottage garden in that part because your setup is so perfect for it and you've already got the backbone in place.

The reason I say go with curving beds in the ground instead of raised is that you've already got a fence as border.  If you raise the level of the soil, you'll rot the wood.   AND...you can get the same "stone edging" effect with the stone in the ground. (Yes, sink those odd-shaped stones right into the ground.  It's a lot easier because you've already got the dirt loose.)  I would do this around the PATIO too, which will create sort of a "golf green"-shaped, gently curved spot of grass in the center, which is basically the foil against which your lovely gardens will be set.

Okay, does that make sense at all?

ETA:  I know you're in a low rainfall area (or so I assume, since you're in the West) and that rot is not such a problem for y'all, but the amount of watering that annuals require will still be bad for that wood, over time, I would guess.

That planter at the back of the patio area...is that what the big climbers are growing in now?

And is it setting ON the patio?

Everything I'm seeing says this one is fairly compact--maybe 20' tall--and that it's self-pollinating.

There is always a danger, without the scientific name being absolutely known, that you could have a slightly different variety, and I could be wrong about that.  If this is in fact the one discovered growing further north than was believed possible at one time, it looks like it's a really tough, easygoing plant, so....good get.

Birds will generally get cherries before they're ripe enough for people, around here, btw.

I'd say give it a 25 foot spread and you'll be fine.  Full sun is necessary.

ETA:  Go to the university write ups rather than wiki.

This one is MUCH sweeter, according to what I'm seeing, than the average sour cherry.  

It's not going to be sweet like a Bing cherry, but still...will be a good tree.

OH...so the diagram is not how it is NOW, but how it WILL be...??

The "1 foot" thing...that is one foot per small square on the graph paper, right?

That's quite common, the variation.

The cerasus is what I got and could not find avium with 'Evans Bali'  with a quick search at any of the university sites, so I have to assume the tag is wrong.

you might take a half hour and cruise gardenweb to see if there are any threads on it.  I haven't looked there yet.

Okay. One of my ideas had involved moving that box to the lower deck, but it's clearly involved with the other plants.  It looks like from your diagram that it's against the back fence, but it appears you have a little path through there behind the hot tub, that maybe opens to the other side of the garage, so that's what was confusing

Leveling...

I haven't had a lot of that issue, but because you have that clay base, it sounds like your substrate has some natural drainages in it in a few spots, and some harder areas in others.  You may end up finishing the yard, then topping off any sinkage with more soil and reseeding.  The sinking should become less each time unless something else is going on.

You're doing right, mixing in the stuff to make the soil more friable.

FWIW, here are the two ideas I had.  

The reason I say keep some lawn is that you have a lot of stuff in a small area,  and the patch of "green" in the center of it will help it all feel more connected from a design standpoint, in particular because you have a lot of hardscape, and even a small bit of lawn is a nice counterpoint.    I don't always suggest that, but with your excellent "walls" for your outdoor room, it feels like a bit of grass would be a good thing to keep.

I included the one sans planter because I'd already sketched it and put notes in..

Take or leave anything of course.  Use whatever is useful and discard what is not.   Mostly I just had a vision for this small curvy bit of "golf green" lawn bordered by beds where you could grow anything.  That one-foot strip by the patio is perfect for onions, tomatoes, garlic, herbs--just about anything that's not a root crop.

Post away.

If I can't help much, somebody else here can, I'm certain.  

FYI, I'm procrastinating on something, which is why I'm responding quickly. If I'm in the middle of a big work project, it may take me more time.

Click2boom, the reason I say keep the beds in-ground is that layering beneath climbers is such a wonderful way to add depth and texture to a border planting



This one does not show climbers, but see how the plants are layered?   this also shows a lovely narrow strip of lawn that, in this case, is used only as a path through the garden, but in your case, is a larger, central patch to open up the space and a spot for your dogs.  You will need tough grass, and some consistent maintenance,  if they pee there all the time, as the urine will decimate any plants over time.  




In the English cottage garden, the layered border against a fence or wall is one of the best things you can do.  

I'll find you some photos of hostas..

ETA:  Scroll down through this page.  You'll see a lot of other plants mixed in, but it will give you some ideas about mixing hostas into a border.  They will be perfect under your climbers, if they will grow in your area.

I'm guessing they will...


Hostas in borders

There are some incredible images out there of layered borders, but I'm having to be careful to not infringe on copyright.

Several varieties of hosta

There are a gazillion.

That's really interesting.  Please do post pics.

What are the latest findings about Miscanthus X giganteus as far as invasiveness?  I'm assuming, since you are planting it (and knowing your attention to detail) that you consider it okay.  Interested in what you have found out and why you chose it.

I saw the whole frenzy of writings on the biomass aspect.  Very interested in that, too...and whether it works out for straw.  I have zero experience with it.

Looks like lots of folks are trying it. I hope it doesn't turn out to be a Johnsongrass equivalent, with rhizomes that cannot be stopped.

@lokt

I need you to take some more pics for me.

I have some ideas already, just from this one photo, and mostly they are inspired by the really nice shape of the hardscape around your pool.   HOWEVER...I need some additional information.

1-Take a photo standing right in front of those rose bushes, toward the house.  I can't tell how much space is there, or what's behind them.


2-Stand on your back porch/patio.  

Take a shot Straight out across the pool, so I can see what your view is, of your back property line and what's beyond, FROM YOUR BACK DOOR AREA.

Then take one to your left, so I can see that direciton (try to keep the pool (part of it) in the shot if you can)  

Then take one to the right, same way.  

I'm assuming the shot of the back of the house is from your back property line.   Is that correct?

The reason I ask for all of this is that nobody can offer good advice on landscaping a yard until they see the whole yard.

I would love it if you could include some indicators of size of lot, etc.  I was able to help click2boomin detail because he had a diagram that was to scale.  So I knew what would fit and what would not.

NOW THEN..

All this said, you live in a COMPLETELY different climate from mine, so I cannot make many suggestions as to exact plants, but I can tell you how to find out.

If you have the basics of a plan down for your back yard, any GOOD nursery in your area (this is not Lowe's or Home Depot) can help you with the right plants for what you're after.

ETA:  I'm sorry to say I think you will end up needing to remove that evergreen beside the pool, and that's a shame, as it's your most mature plant.    We will talk about fast growing plants and their disadvantages and advantages in upcoming posts.

ETA2:  I see some tall trees peeking above the roofline of your home (which is lovely, btw).  What are they?  Are they in your yard?  If so, how are they doing?

ETA3:  I need to know where the sun rises and sets in this photo.  Basically, I need to know how it moves across your back yard.

AND...I will have some questions for you once I know these things.  About how you use your back yard, how your family uses your pool, and what your ideal is for the perfect back yard.

Mine didn't either, but mine is pretty old, cuz...I'm pretty old.

No, that's a great way to do it. Just don't pile it up around the bark of the trunk..  Dig out the sod, put in your plastic stuff, and put mulch up to the level of the ground.  If you go above that level, don't make it more than an inch or so.

Bark piled up around the tree bark is bad for the tree.    I can't do it this week, (just got in a huge editing project)  but  I'll do a post on why that is, as I think that's a really common thing people do because they don't understand why they shouldn't.

There are no silly questions, and the answer is..

I don't know.

Hoping some of the other folks will know this.  I've never found a hose that can take constant outdoor exposure, especially sunlight like that.  There probably are some.  I just don't know which ones.

I have ideas for you.

What are their requirements? (I mean, "you can't cover up the sign or the front door. Gotta see it from the road") or some such?

Are you going to augment that clay?

Does it turn into a swimming pool when it rains?

FYI, I think the narrow one is easier to manage than that big one to the left.  Are you doing it, too?

I would love to try this plant, if it won't short you.

Finish your planting first, for certain.

And thank you for that great offer!