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Posted: 1/17/2022 1:44:27 PM EDT
So the section " 97.115 Third party communications"  covers the 'Daddy, can I talk?' mode for HAM radio operations.

Here is the question:

if I am running a DMR hotspot, in my immediate control, and I allow an unlicensed person to connect to the hotspot, and transmit a message, is this mode of operation permitted under the 97.115 provisions?

Clarification, the third party is connecting using a non-radio device, so the only radio transmission is coming from the hotspot transceiver.
Link Posted: 1/17/2022 2:22:39 PM EDT
[#1]
Id have to go back and read the rules.


But...   the whole amateur DMR system is predicated on the fact everyone is operating under valid, legal, amateur radio licenses.  Either as a licensee, or under supervision of.


It's not just about you.  It's about the far end as well.  Remember, one transmission to any TG may be going out RF from powerful tower-based repeaters all over the country.
Link Posted: 1/17/2022 2:33:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Let's say I am running my own DMR server (vs logging into BM, etc..) and control access and the creation of talkgroups, so global re-transmission is not a concern.
Link Posted: 1/17/2022 2:49:01 PM EDT
[#3]
[Lawyer Joe Pesci] if you hand the mic to your kid and let them talk, you are still onsite and the "control op".

If you go off to work, and talk DMR to your unlicensed kid who's at home, it's not kosher.  [/Lawyer Joe Pesci]

Link Posted: 1/17/2022 2:51:48 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Let's say I am running my own DMR server (vs logging into BM, etc..) and control access and the creation of talkgroups, so global re-transmission is not a concern.
View Quote



If nothing goes out RF, then it doesn't matter.


But in that case why bother?  Create a TG in Zello.  Everyone puts it on their phones.  Done.

Link Posted: 1/17/2022 3:32:48 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

If nothing goes out RF, then it doesn't matter.

But in that case why bother?  Create a TG in Zello.  Everyone puts it on their phones.  Done.

View Quote
I was only ruling out repeaters all over the world.  There is still radio transmission from my 100mw hotspot.

I mean why does anyone bother with ham, when we have iphones and skype.
Link Posted: 1/17/2022 3:49:36 PM EDT
[#6]
Pirate radio!
Link Posted: 1/17/2022 3:54:49 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I was only ruling out repeaters all over the world.  There is still radio transmission from my 100mw hotspot.

I mean why does anyone bother with ham, when we have iphones and skype.
View Quote



I don't understand what you're asking any more.


Either there is RF or there isn't.  If transmissions are going out RF, the rules apply.


Maybe there is some lower power limit where they don't.  But i don't think so.
Link Posted: 1/17/2022 4:16:21 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
snip

Clarification, the third party is connecting using a non-radio device, so the only radio transmission is coming from the hotspot transceiver.
View Quote


So the third party's internet based message is being rebroadcast via RF on your hotspot?

If something the third party does causes transmission on ham frequencies without control operator being involved, it's a no go.

If their message was stored and you took some action to have it sent via radio to you (e.g. like checking voice mail) that's good to go.

Basic litmus test:
1) is a licensed operator in immediate control of the station at all times during the third party use (if yes, you're OK, if no, NOT OK)
or
2) is a licensed operator initiating the transmission (if yes, OK, if not yes, NOT OK.)

Some of the DMR stuff is a grey area. I think if you were doing something where you initiated a "QSO" via RF on your end with an unlicensed party
over an internet link, you'd be OK, just like an autopatch is OK.

If the unlicensed party did that, it wouldn't fly, just like reverse-autopatch (e.g. someone unlicensed "ringing" a repeater) is considered against the rules.
Link Posted: 1/17/2022 11:19:06 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

So the third party's internet based message is being rebroadcast via RF on your hotspot?

If something the third party does causes transmission on ham frequencies without control operator being involved, it's a no go

.....
View Quote

http://www.arrl.org/phone-patch-guidelines

Thanks for the input on this.  I found this link from ARRL on phone patch.  So it seems if the TG can call out and patch in an unlicensed person (don't call us, we'll call you) it has some precedence.  On some business conference systems there is a lobby area where call-ins are located.  The conference owner must approve anyone in the lobby for access to the call.

If I follow this, then the DMR TG would need to be equipped with a lobby function for call-ins and a call-out feature for anything else to include a non-ham.  

Link Posted: 1/17/2022 11:29:43 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Clarification, the third party is connecting using a non-radio device, so the only radio transmission is coming from the hotspot transceiver.
View Quote

Which would be a third party acting as the control operator of an amateur station, albeit remotely, unless a licensed amateur is supervising the third party.

Lots of people use HF remote base setups, doesn't mean a non-licensed person can use a computer link to the remote base and get on the air.

Repeater phone patch is a slightly different situation with some important differences. A repeater operates under some specific restrictions under automatic control. So the repeater can do some specific things without user intervention. An incoming call from a third party could cause the autopatch to "ring", with the ring being under automatic control as an indication of repeater functions, but to answer the call and transmit audio from the third party required action from an on-air operator, who would assume responsibility for the third party traffic.

An on-air operator isn't able to control the hotspot device to disconnect the non-licensed third party, nor does the hotspot meet the specifications for automatic control, so is not the same kind of situation as a repeater autopatch.
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 4:58:43 AM EDT
[#11]
nvm.  my opinions aren't welcome.
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