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Posted: 11/17/2020 8:15:47 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: Question to the hive mind, is there really any point for my usage? I use my radios to talk to locals and associates on repeaters, for simplex for me and associates out in the sticks, and me and the HH6 in various areas, and generally for EMCOMM. Last summer when there was smoke and wildfires everywhere, and electricity and internet were out, it was good to be able to go outside and talk to others in the area and get information about the local situation. I have no interest in talk groups, or talking globally through internet connections. In my mind, that's what I'm doing right now. And I could just call or text you. It's technically cool, but seems practically pointless, to me. Specifically, does the digital aspect of the device enhance analog signal in any way, or is analog separate from the digital mode at all times? Also, are most links between DMR repeaters internet based, or are RF links common? I do know that signal clarity is better, further out, between two HTs in digital mode, so there is that. Is the actual range that much greater? Am I missing the boat by not going digital? I think, based just on cost and standardization, analog is here to stay. I don't think you'll be missing the boat for your use case for now, and probably into the future. Direct RF links between repeaters isn't necessarily common, but it does happen, especially for the greater-metro areas or particularly well organized large clubs. I don't know if there's a way to know how common they are relative to each other over the whole country, but in my area most of the smaller DMR repeaters depend on the cell network or Comcast. |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 9:51:44 AM EDT
[#2]
the SC Statewide DMR-MARC system is Microwave linked but it's also locked down to prevent access to outside (Brandmeister, etc..) connections.
I was early in and early out on DMR. but, I recently bought all 5 hams in the house DMR HT's to use for Ham & Itinerant use. I still don't talk on the 'system' with DMR but it may come in handy for more than normal secured comms "simplex" around the farm. non-affiliate link: MTCRadio UV380 DMR HT for $74. |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 11:19:32 AM EDT
[#3]
Interesting.
Does using to DMR HTs on simplex offer any real security/encryption beyond just PL codes (which I know anyone can scan for, it just keeps out interference. |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 11:26:19 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting. Does using to DMR HTs on simplex offer any real security/encryption beyond just PL codes (which I know anyone can scan for, it just keeps out interference. Some popular DMR capable HT's offer encryption and 'advanced' encryption which is AES. Within the software, this encryption scheme can only be enabled when the channel is set up as digital (DMR), which can work simplex. So, the answer to your question is yes. DMR offers AES encryption, depending on the radio you purchase. The Anyone 878 is one i am most familiar with, but I think most of the higher end chinese radios offer AES. And just to be complete - as everyone knows encryption is illegal on amateur freqs. |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 11:29:39 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some popular DMR capable HT's offer encryption and 'advanced' encryption which is AES. Within the software, this encryption scheme can only be enabled when the channel is set up as digital (DMR), which can work simplex. So, the answer to your question is yes. DMR offers AES encryption, depending on the radio you purchase. The Anyone 878 is one i am most familiar with, but I think most of the higher end chinese radios offer AES. And just to be complete - as everyone knows encryption is illegal on amateur freqs. yes, all of the above. The TYT UV380 also offers the same encryption (in DMR mode) and that is why I opted to obtain my Business Itinerant License ($170/ 10 years) for our media company and other ventures. |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 12:54:56 PM EDT
[#6]
nope
FM is king on VHF/UHF using a Hotspot to fusion or DMR to hams beyond V/U range might be fun, but it’s not really ham radio...more like VOIP i’ve met some great guys on the ARFCOM TGIF board,... but using the internet for ham is like training wheels on a bicycle chatting with Gyprat and the gang on 40meter ssb, or the Olivia net,....well that’s ham radio |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 12:58:08 PM EDT
[#7]
Is DMR worth it?
In my area, the DMR repeaters are dead. Luckily I am pretty financially responsible and did not go hog wild on a fancy setup only to find there was no DMR traffic. I bought a single TYT for less than $100 to check out the DMR scene, and there was none. The TYT also does UHF/VHF FM so no loss there. Was a big step up from my $20 Baofeng. I now have a pair of TYT MD-UV380 I also use for Business itinerant use with legal encryption. I do now use them for DMR with a $50 hotspot. It helps during our Olivia nets to get with others and go over settings etc... but other than that I don't ever use them on DMR repeaters. A chat app could suffice for the Olivia net chats I suppose. Since there is an Arfcomm DMR net I use them a little more for ham radio, or truthfully Internet VOIP using an HT. So, Is DMR worth it? for me since I spent so little on it, and have other uses for the HTs like FM and business, yes. But if I spent more than a few hundred on the hardware, and if I did not have an Itinerant license, and seeing how the repeater scene is non-existent, then there is a point where you have to draw the line and say no, not worth it. Like mentioned above, analog UHF/VHF is king as far as I'm concerned. And pretty much this: Quoted: nope FM is king on VHF/UHF using a Hotspot to fusion or DMR to hams beyond V/U range might be fun, but it’s not really ham radio...more like VOIP i’ve met some great guys on the ARFCOM TGIF board,... but using the internet for ham is like training wheels on a bicycle chatting with Gyprat and the gang on 40meter ssb, or the Olivia net,....well that’s ham radio |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 1:30:54 PM EDT
[#8]
What are the DMR talkgroups to monitor? I've got one on the way.
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Posted: 11/17/2020 1:31:58 PM EDT
[#9]
Derek and Fred - you're conflating DMR with using a hotspot.
Yes, you can use a hotspot to access your favorite DMR network. But that's a side issue. Personally, I agree with the hotspot use and how it takes some of the magic away. However, I carry a DMR radio because DMR is a very popular digital mode, and repeaters abound. And until the local analog only repeaters actually have some traffic, you can find me on the more popular DMR or WIRES-X talkgroups / rooms when / if i'm in range of a DMR or WIRES-X linked repeater. |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 1:36:55 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What are the DMR talkgroups to monitor? I've got one on the way. A DMR repeater will be set up with static and dynamic talkgroups. You'll need to understand which are available on the repeater before you can properly program your radio. Fortunately the various DMR networks have gone to the effort of making the TG ID match between themselves for the more popular TGs. And these are often crosslinked to different DMR networks. TexasNexus is a YAESU WIRES room which someone has crosslinked to DMR, usually has 20-40 users online, and often has something to listen to. America-Link ARFCOMM (But this is only available on the TGIF network, which is one of the less popular ones. So basically hotspot only) |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 1:39:27 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Derek and Fred - you're conflating DMR with using a hotspot. Yes, you can use a hotspot to access your favorite DMR network. But that's a side issue. Personally, I agree with the hotspot use and how it takes some of the magic away. However, I carry a DMR radio because DMR is a very popular digital mode, and repeaters abound. And until the local analog only repeaters actually have some traffic, you can find me on the more popular DMR or WIRES-X talkgroups / rooms when / if i'm in range of a DMR or WIRES-X linked repeater. Its going to vary geographically, from state to state, but DMR over the air, over repeaters is 100% dead here. 2m FM is where its at around here. I wanted to like DMR, but its not happening in this area. |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 1:46:04 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Derek and Fred - you're conflating DMR with using a hotspot. Yes, you can use a hotspot to access your favorite DMR network. But that's a side issue. Personally, I agree with the hotspot use and how it takes some of the magic away. However, I carry a DMR radio because DMR is a very popular digital mode, and repeaters abound. And until the local analog only repeaters actually have some traffic, you can find me on the more popular DMR or WIRES-X talkgroups / rooms when / if i'm in range of a DMR or WIRES-X linked repeater. yeah I know the difference there is not a DMR repeater nearby, so for me, it’s hotspot only FM has some activity, but very little compared to the 1990’s HF is where the fun is . |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 1:46:14 PM EDT
[#13]
Digital is just another aspect. Some are into it and some are not. I think it's fun and just another method to this madness. All that being said if you won't use it, then don't bother. But it is a handy way to talk "back home" when on the road.
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Posted: 11/17/2020 1:51:51 PM EDT
[#14]
And the the few talkgroups there are here on repeaters are mostly all local with one or two regionals.
Its not like we have access to all or any of Brandmeister or TGIF on the repeaters. Oh yea, there is always HF. |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 1:54:09 PM EDT
[#15]
I've sold as much DMR gear as I now own, and yet I still have 6 DMR HT's....
the U/V version made a tremendous amount of sense to me for a few reasons. 1. Ham Repeater Analog 2. Business Itinerant 3. County Analog Fire (dept commish) 4. Ham Repeater DMR (statewide in CP to use if away from AO) That said, my use is 99.44% on analog repeaters. The DMR HT happens to be the tool that best fits the need for the lowest buy-in for now. |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 2:10:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That said, my use is 99.44% on analog repeaters. The DMR HT happens to be the tool that best fits the need for the lowest buy-in for now. Honestly - having played with HTs from various mfgs, the way DMR HT's work with zones and channels makes them very easy to flexibly program for analog repeater use over a wide range of areas. If the Anytone 878 had full APRS functionality, it'd be the go-to HT for almost all purposes - unless your primary consideration was small and compact.  Hell - Yaesu mobile radios don't even do banks, unlike their HTs. |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 3:59:17 PM EDT
[#17]
When you say "business itinerant", you're referring to legal simplex encryption, correct?
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Posted: 11/17/2020 4:15:25 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When you say "business itinerant", you're referring to legal simplex encryption, correct? Yes |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 5:28:13 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Honestly - having played with HTs from various mfgs, the way DMR HT's work with zones and channels makes them very easy to flexibly program for analog repeater use over a wide range of areas. Exactly! I like DMR HTs.... for organizing analog FM repeaters in different zones for different cities/areas. |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 5:46:35 PM EDT
[#20]
My YAESU FT-7900 has memory banks
i think my FTM-100 did also, ....at least two 7900 manual  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 5:54:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My YAESU FT-7900 has memory banks i think my FTM-100 did also, ....at least two My VX6 has a dozen or so. The FT3Dr has 24. The FTM-400 has.... two. But they aren't really "banks" in it's case. More like 'storage areas' that just happen to be split in two segments. Either way, they're pointlessly restrictive in how it's handled. There is no good way to split programmed channels into 'sets' for a specific area. The only one that comes close is Kenwood's d710 feature, which can scan each of the 10 sets of 100 channels (1-100, 101-200, etc) as a sort of pseudo-bank. The Icom 5100 can scan by distance. But from reading the manual it still doesn't do banks. It's surprisingly anachronistic. As if the programmers who work in their firmware shop still think in terms of memory chips that are storing channels on EEPROMs or something. It's.... weird. Time for a revolution in their thinking which I hope the higher quality Chinese radios will do. |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 1:26:37 AM EDT
[#22]
JoeDavola, it depends if there are DMR repeaters in your area. Here we have four high profile repeaters run by 3 groups, that cover the three major DMR networks. QSOs over digital repeaters are excellent, with no noise compared to analog but with slightly less natural sounding voice. The TYT MD-380, often found on sale around $55 is the lowest cost of entry of any digital mode by far. If going through a hotspot is a deal breaker, you may want to pass, as you might not be able to access the talkgroups you want via your local repeaters. If you want to make contacts around thecountry and the world, digital is the way to go excluding HF. SCWolverine has a nice setup, DMR simplex for the homestead should be a piece of cake.
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Posted: 11/18/2020 10:09:42 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: JoeDavola, it depends if there are DMR repeaters in your area. Here we have four high profile repeaters run by 3 groups, that cover the three major DMR networks. QSOs over digital repeaters are excellent, with no noise compared to analog but with slightly less natural sounding voice. The TYT MD-380, often found on sale around $55 is the lowest cost of entry of any digital mode by far. If going through a hotspot is a deal breaker, you may want to pass, as you might not be able to access the talkgroups you want via your local repeaters. If you want to make contacts around thecountry and the world, digital is the way to go excluding HF. SCWolverine has a nice setup, DMR simplex for the homestead should be a piece of cake. The point is that you aren't "making contacts around the world." You're contacting your hotspot. Or the local repeater. Sure, you're talking to someone on the other side of the state, nation, or globe. But you aren't doing it by radio, other than the short hop from your handheld to linked device. I talk to folks on Zello from around the world, too. But I don't claim to be "making contacts" in the amateur radio sense. |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 10:48:12 AM EDT
[#24]
Regarding "encryption", while most DMR HT's are capable of true encryption, we all know that's illegal on ham frequencies. What I don't see mentioned here is the fact that using DMR simplex unencrypted still keeps a lot of the riff-raff from hearing you. I believe there's some benefit to the fact that all the yahoos out there with their $20 Baofengs can't listen in on DMR simplex comms.
And as mentioned, the zone setup for channels makes organizing and accessing hundreds of channels pretty simple once you get the programming figured out. |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 10:58:53 AM EDT
[#25]
That's kind of the way I was seeing it. Talking to someone 1,000 miles away on 80m is radio, doing this seems like just calling someone on a cell phone, or talking in an internet chat group.
And that's the thing, parts or whole of the internet being down would negate the usefulness of this in emergencies. I do like the fact that digital simplex does give, at least according to charts I've seen, better signal quality farther out on the fringes of range. Just wondering if the juice is worth the squeeze. The encryption idea is great, but seems others you'd be working with would have to have compatible type radios for that to matter. I'm guessing TYT could talk encrypted to an Alinco or Anytone, as they're DMR, but your buddy's Yaesu or Icom would be out of that loop for encryption, and you'd be relegated to talking analog with them? ETA: obviously I'd get a business itinerant license if I wanted to pursue encrypted comms radio-to-radio, far be it from me to ruffle the FCCs feathers. So, even if two DMR rigs aren't purposely running encrypted, if they talk in digital mode, folks on that same frequency in analog mode do not hear it? |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 11:04:35 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's kind of the way I was seeing it. Talking to someone 1,000 miles away on 80m is radio, doing this seems like just calling someone on a cell phone, or talking in an internet chat group. And that's the thing, parts or whole of the internet being down would negate the usefulness of this in emergencies. I do like the fact that digital simplex does give, at least according to charts I've seen, better signal quality farther out on the fringes of range. Just wondering if the juice is worth the squeeze. The encryption idea is great, but seems others you'd be working with would have to have compatible type radios for that to matter. I'm guessing TYT could talk encrypted to an Alinco or Anytone, as they're DMR, but your buddy's Yaesu or Icom would be out of that loop for encryption, and you'd be relegated to talking analog with them? Nope. The Anytone with AES is reportedly compatible with Hytera and Motorola AES, but TYT, Connect Systems, and others are not made to be compatible with other manufacturers. I don't know about Alinco. Encryption among DMR radios is not necessarily standardized, so be careful when purchasing if that's something you value. |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 11:10:50 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ... ETA: obviously I'd get a business itinerant license if I wanted to pursue encrypted comms radio-to-radio, far be it from me to ruffle the FCCs feathers. So, even if two DMR rigs aren't purposely running encrypted, if they talk in digital mode, folks on that same frequency in analog mode do not hear it? If you haven't seen the guide I wrote on business itinerant licensing, PM me if you do go that direction. The analog folks hearing digital modes on their frequency - whether encrypted or unencrypted - will hear a digital-sounding noise. |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 11:39:17 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope. The Anytone with AES is reportedly compatible with Hytera and Motorola AES, but TYT, Connect Systems, and others are not made to be compatible with other manufacturers. I don't know about Alinco. Encryption among DMR radios is not necessarily standardized, so be careful when purchasing if that's something you value. I can confirm Anytone and TYT encryption are not compatible. I believe Alinco units are made by Anytone, so I'd be optimistic there but would confirm before dropping any cash based on that assumption. And just to be clear, this is in reference to actual encrypted comms (AES, etc.). DMR radios of any brand can talk to each other unencrypted. |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 12:34:19 PM EDT
[#29]
I'm new to ham. Digital was not of interest to me but my icom does d-star so I decided to give it a whirl. I could not get to the local repeater reliably so I bought a hotspot. Then the local guys that I was talking with on FM got into a DMR phase so I bought a retevis handheld.
It has sucked me in a little. I have to put my antennas up and take them down when I'm not using them. Getting on DMR is as easy as plugging in my hotspots. I can couple it with my phone's wifi and can take it with me. I could then talk to the guys that I speak with normally on FM and I can talk to them from anywhere in the world. It is worth it, just to learn how to use it. It could be handy at times even if you are not that into it. There are small radios that cost something like $30 and you can find hot spots from $50 to $250 that will get you into the internet or you could just rely on a nearby repeater if you have one. It's a cheap investment. And with some of the hotspots you an cross mode from the same radio. The open spot 3 will do dmr/fusion/d-star and maybe P25 from on radio. My chinese pi-star will runs all formats but will cross mode d-star and fusion. |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 1:18:29 PM EDT
[#30]
So if 3 guys are talking simplex, on, say, 146.520 on their digital radios, in digital mode, and mr. analog wants to talk to them too, they have to switch out of digital mode to hear him?
If he can't hear them, can they still receive him without switching from digital to analog? |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 1:24:37 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So if 3 guys are talking simplex, on, say, 146.520 on their digital radios, in digital mode, and mr. analog wants to talk to them too, they have to switch out of digital mode to hear him? If he can't hear them, can they still receive him without switching from digital to analog? Yaesu will automatically switch from analog to digital and vice versa, depending of what it receives FM radios tuned to a digital signal will hear “frying bacon” . |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 1:45:19 PM EDT
[#32]
I use DMR here where I live.
We have a low level repeater system here which covers 3 counties as well as 3 more repeaters, 1 in Truckee, ca, and 2 in the Las Vegas, Nv area. We use it to stay in touch with our group, and also for SAR and local disaster services, including fires, floods, or whatever the local EM wants us to do. When I travel, I have an Anytone AT-578 in my truck with a hotspot to talk back home. Our local group also runs offroad vehicles and use a simplex frequency on DMR for car-to-car. It works well, over a 10 to 15 mile range. |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 1:50:22 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So if 3 guys are talking simplex, on, say, 146.520 on their digital radios, in digital mode, and mr. analog wants to talk to them too, they have to switch out of digital mode to hear him? If he can't hear them, can they still receive him without switching from digital to analog? These questions you're asking are going a direction that i'm not sure makes sense. Tell us where you're trying to go with this. There are three main digital modes in amateur V/U radio. Yaesu Fusion. Icom DSTAR. and DMR. None of them interoperate with each other. A Yaesu radio in Fusion mode will not receive and demodulate a DMR digital signal, or a DSTAR digital signal. All radios will operate in analog FM. Which operates exactly as you would expect. All (or at least the more popular) radios have some version of "dual mode" which will automatically switch between it's 'digital' mode or analogue based on the incoming signal received. |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 1:54:55 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So if 3 guys are talking simplex, on, say, 146.520 on their digital radios, in digital mode, and mr. analog wants to talk to them too, they have to switch out of digital mode to hear him? If he can't hear them, can they still receive him without switching from digital to analog? 1. Yes, or Mr. Analog has to buy himself a Digital Radio as well (that matches the digital format his buddies are using-DStar, YSF, DMR, P25, NXDN, etc...). 2. It depends...like Derek said above, most YSF radios can be set to auto-detect the RX mode. My DMR rigs are in whatever mode I place them and stay there until I change them (*ex see your question #1.) |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 3:34:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These questions you're asking are going a direction that i'm not sure makes sense. Tell us where you're trying to go with this. There are three main digital modes in amateur V/U radio. Yaesu Fusion. Icom DSTAR. and DMR. None of them interoperate with each other. A Yaesu radio in Fusion mode will not receive and demodulate a DMR digital signal, or a DSTAR digital signal. All radios will operate in analog FM. Which operates exactly as you would expect. All (or at least the more popular) radios have some version of "dual mode" which will automatically switch between it's 'digital' mode or analogue based on the incoming signal received. No, this is all extremely helpful. I appreciate the input from everyone. Doin' my best to make the questions sensible, that one is basically trying to determine how useful this is for my applications. It's really sounding like, unless me and all the folks I want to talk to (simplex) have the same type/compatible rigs, we'll be defaulting to analog anyway, and therefore not getting the full advantage of operating digital in the first place. Sounds like everyone who'd want to talk would have to all buy the same types of radios in order to make use of encryption or get that long distance signal clarity that digital offers. I surely do understand the frustration at the big companies for not just standardizing to begin with. Icom pushing DStar us like FN pushing 5.7x28mm. Seems to me everything should just be whatever version of DMR TYT or Anytone are using. |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 3:49:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like everyone who'd want to talk would have to all buy the same types of radios in order to make use of encryption or get that long distance signal clarity that digital offers. I surely do understand the frustration at the big companies for not just standardizing to begin with. Icom pushing DStar us like FN pushing 5.7x28mm. Seems to me everything should just be whatever version of DMR TYT or Anytone are using. Neither Fusion or DSTAR allows for encryption of any sort in the first place. For purposes of this discussion encryption is another layer on top of DMR, and DMR only. I think you're conflating digital and encryption. Two different things. |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 3:57:22 PM EDT
[#37]
Encryption is not legal for ham radio, but a commercial application you are good to go.
 One thing to understand about DMR is that even without encryption enabled using a DMR radio typically keeps most of the world from listening in. For ham radio each digital mode is proprietary so many hams use a MMDVM hotspots or something like the OpenSpot hotspot to cross mode from mode to another. It allows me to use one radio to work multiple modes through the hotspot. The downside is that the internet is required...so for me using a hotspot has been a good work around and has allowed be to chat with lots of ARFCOM hams on the TGIF network Talk Group 556. |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 4:00:20 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Neither Fusion or DSTAR allows for encryption of any sort in the first place. ** For purposes of this discussion encryption is another layer on top of DMR, and DMR only. I think you're conflating digital and encryption. Two different things. ** This and Encryption in any form is Strictly Verboten in the Amateur/Ham Radio hobby (illegal). Those of us who have an additional Business Itinerant License (not Ham Radio related) are allowed Encryption and I happen to use the TYT DMR Radio to accomplish that. |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 4:08:56 PM EDT
[#39]
Yes, gentleman - that encryption is not legal on Amateur freqs was/is covered in the first half-dozen posts of this thread.
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Posted: 11/18/2020 4:22:25 PM EDT
[#40]
Yes...but the encryption question comes up all of the time. New hams or those new to DMR really don't realize that all DMR radios offerings were designed for commercial use.
Most of cheap Chinese DMR rigs that are very popular all have encryption in their CPS. I've actually heard hams using encryption on the air because they didn't understand how to write a ham friendly code plug. I have "fixed" a number of code plugs for those local hams because of the complexity of making a working code plug. DMR is a great mode, but not as ham friendly as analog FM. |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 6:12:35 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, this is all extremely helpful. I appreciate the input from everyone. Doin' my best to make the questions sensible, that one is basically trying to determine how useful this is for my applications. It's really sounding like, unless me and all the folks I want to talk to (simplex) have the same type/compatible rigs, we'll be defaulting to analog anyway, and therefore not getting the full advantage of operating digital in the first place. Sounds like everyone who'd want to talk would have to all buy the same types of radios in order to make use of encryption or get that long distance signal clarity that digital offers. I surely do understand the frustration at the big companies for not just standardizing to begin with. Icom pushing DStar us like FN pushing 5.7x28mm. Seems to me everything should just be whatever version of DMR TYT or Anytone are using. All DMR radios can talk to each other digitally - it's the encryption that they aren't necessarily compatible. My TYT can talk with my Anytone can talk with my Connect Systems etc etc in the clear, it's only when I turn on encryption on all of them that they can't talk to each other anymore, because each Chinese manufacturer encrypts the packets differently (and, probably, poorly). Anytone's AES is the only exception I'm aware of, since it's compatible with Hytera and Motorola radios in AES mode. |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 7:47:06 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The point is that you aren't "making contacts around the world." You're contacting your hotspot. Or the local repeater. I talk to folks on Zello from around the world, too. But I don't claim to be "making contacts" in the amateur radio sense. By that logic, talking over repeaters isn't radio. Zello is a cell phone app that you don't use for amateur radio, no comparison to DMR. Talking to hams around the world aren't real contacts, got it. But I enjoy the QSOs. |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 8:20:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Old curmudgeon hams hated No-Code Techs back in the 90's almost as much as current day curmudgeon hams hate DMR via MMDVM hotspots.
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Posted: 11/18/2020 10:39:10 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: By that logic, talking over repeaters isn't radio. Zello is a cell phone app that you don't use for amateur radio, no comparison to DMR. Talking to hams around the world aren't real contacts, got it. But I enjoy the QSOs. No? When I use Zello I'm using a radio device to connect to a tower within radio range to talk to any number of other people all over the world who are using their own radio devices which are connecting to towers local to them, and using the same app. An application which requires an ID, registration, and a certain amount of technical knowledge to use. No one is saying DMR isn't fun or whatever. Sure, you're talking to folks. Which is fun and interesting. The only point is that "making contacts all over the world" is a bit of a misnomer. |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 10:58:41 PM EDT
[#45]
stringing up a dipole, getting on HF, and talking to New Caledonia is ham radio zello, echolink on your iphone, mmdvm hotspot tied to your DSL is not really ham radio...it's 99% telecommunications infrastructure, like a phone call or surfing arfcom. AT&T, verizon, etc., is doing the heavy lifting It's fun to talk to ARFCOM hams on the TGIF board, it's another neat tool in the toolbox, but not really in the spirit of ham radio to rely on the internet to make the connection 
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Posted: 11/18/2020 11:01:51 PM EDT
[#46]
   
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Posted: 11/19/2020 2:44:59 AM EDT
[#47]
Purists are gonna bitch/moan about anything new-fangled, digital, narrowband, no-code, etc etc etc.
"Ham" isn't just HF voice/CW. Attitudes like that are what scares off a lot of newcomers (especially the prepper type with no interest in talking about weather/what radio you're using/geriatric conditions). Is DMR for everyone? No. Not at all. The real question is: What do you want to do with it? Also, what infrastructure/repeaters are in your area that offer DMR services? For me, yeah, it's DMR and P25. Definitely worth it. (although not all my radios are for amateur spectrum...) And just because it's IP doesn't mean that data *has* to ride on commercial internet.   
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Posted: 11/19/2020 2:52:41 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: stringing up a dipole, getting on HF, and talking to New Caledonia is ham radio zello, echolink on your iphone, mmdvm hotspot tied to your DSL is not really ham radio...it's 99% telecommunications infrastructure, like a phone call or surfing arfcom. AT&T, verizon, etc., is doing the heavy lifting It's fun to talk to ARFCOM hams on the TGIF board, it's another neat tool in the toolbox, but not really in the spirit of ham radio to rely on the internet to make the connection https://i.imgur.com/XkP7Jps.jpg Exactly my observations. Seemed like DMR is basically using the internet to talk to people....like texting, talking on the phone, or posting on a forum. Was not conflating encryption with digital either, I get they're separate concepts. Doesn't really sound as if digital has alot to offer for my uses at this time. Thank you very much for the information and insight provided, learning has ocurred. |
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Posted: 11/19/2020 10:24:17 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly my observations. Seemed like DMR is basically using the internet to talk to people....like texting, talking on the phone, or posting on a forum. Was not conflating encryption with digital either, I get they're separate concepts. Doesn't really sound as if digital has alot to offer for my uses at this time. Thank you very much for the information and insight provided, learning has ocurred. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: stringing up a dipole, getting on HF, and talking to New Caledonia is ham radio zello, echolink on your iphone, mmdvm hotspot tied to your DSL is not really ham radio...it's 99% telecommunications infrastructure, like a phone call or surfing arfcom. AT&T, verizon, etc., is doing the heavy lifting It's fun to talk to ARFCOM hams on the TGIF board, it's another neat tool in the toolbox, but not really in the spirit of ham radio to rely on the internet to make the connection https://i.imgur.com/XkP7Jps.jpg Exactly my observations. Seemed like DMR is basically using the internet to talk to people....like texting, talking on the phone, or posting on a forum. Was not conflating encryption with digital either, I get they're separate concepts. Doesn't really sound as if digital has alot to offer for my uses at this time. Thank you very much for the information and insight provided, learning has ocurred. Maybe I don't understand DMR then. When I key up my DMR radio and transmit to the Gold Mountain repeater, the repeater retransmits my signal and it's heard most anywhere in western WA. When someone within range of the repeater responds, it's the same thing. |
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Posted: 11/19/2020 10:30:21 AM EDT
[#50]
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