I know that caliber preference is like a butthole, everyone has one. I hunt mainly in South Texas, and our deer have been steadily growing in size. Most of us attribute it to the crazy amount of rain in the last few years. A nice 4.5-5.5yo 160" would run 200# on our property, feeding protein and corn year round. We are now feeding cottonseed as well, which could be adding a little heft, but the last two bucks that I killed were 275 and 280#.

I bought into the 6.5CM game a few years ago and thought I loved the cartridge. I have three rifles in the caliber. Soft recoil, laser, and not horribly expensive to shoot or reload. I have just not had a lot of luck with it honestly. Most deer run, and even 25-50 yards into the brush is a gripe to get out due to cactus, ironwood, etc. I've tried different shots, and the only DRT has been a high shoulder or head (for doe). I've tried HLD, Accubond, TSX. I shoot 12-15 deer (mostly does) a year, 50+ hogs, and assorted other game a year so it isn't a one-off thing. Last year, I brought my old 270wsm out and DRT on the largest buck I shot.

All of that to say, I want to start looking at planning an Elk trip as well. It seems like a good time to start looking into a larger caliber. For rifles, I've been looking at the Tikka Roughtech (I love Tikkas), Savage Ultralight, Browning Hells Canyon, and have a hookup that might could get me a good price on a Christensen Ridgeline.

Calibers- this is the big gap for me. I used to love the WSM cartridges so 300 WSM is an option. 300 WM is easy to find and a classic favorite. 28 Nosler intrigues me, but I'm a little worried that it will go the way of my 243 WSSM and ammo become impossible to find. I keep reading mentions of the 280 AI but I don't know much about it. This gun will be used 99% for deer, so I'd rather be on the lower end of Elk capable. I do reload, but don't shoot everyday anymore so working up loads would be a little difficult and would like some factory available ammo.

I already have a few scopes for the rifle sitting on a shelf collecting dust.

See last post. Ended up with a Seekins Havak PH2 in 300wm

I don’t have any advice but want to tag this because I think it’s an interesting conversation.

Sounds like 7mm Rem Magnum or 300 WM might be what you are looking for. 264 WM used to be king down there.  6.5 PRC?

As much as I thought I would love it (and invested in it), I don't think 6mm bullets are what I want. 300wm is in the options. I've read a few things on the 7mm RM/RUM and people seem to like it. I guess I haven't researched it very well, though. I guess the big advantage of the 300 over it is variety of bullet weight.

I think it's a conversation that's been had a million times, but most of the threads I've read seems to have people commenting 100% this way, 100% that way, and "but I haven't shot the other caliber". Then the random guy comes in and says "338 Lapua and don't look back" or "you need to try the 280 Montana Revised Cartridge, all you have to do is ream a 50 BMG down to a 270 neck and then expand back to a 280 and press your own loads out of a 22 cartridge".

I think a lot of hunters are on the same verge as me....one elk trip every few years but need something that covers the low end of that yet mostly for deer. I don't want to flinch before shooting because of recoil, but need something that is forgiving.

People keep saying "it's all about shot placement" but I feel like I'm a pretty good shot, and have had plenty of opportunities in taking deer. I am confident with head shots as well, and routinely use that to take meat deer. I'm just simply not getting the results that I'd like with the 6.5

You can't go wrong with a 300 WM or 7 Mag for Elk and for a longer range deer rifle. As you mentioned, your new rifle will primarily be used for deer and the occasional elk. You may want to consider a 30-06. It offers a wide range of bullet options. It's a proven performer. Readily available (pre-panic buying/ammo shortage).

That 270WSM is what I would stick with.  It really doesn't get any better, for what it sounds like you want.   For elk use like a 140 grain accubond or other bullet that won't explode at those velocities, and pull the trigger with confidence.

I've got a pile of milsurp 30-06 due to Garands and actually have a Rem 700 in 30-06. I've shot a few deer with it, but it has an unthreaded barrel, and I like shooting suppressed so haven't used it in years. The same for the 270 WSM. It's in a B&C stock, changed the bottom metal and trigger but still has a thin hunter profile barrel that I can't get threaded, so I'd be starting over from scratch anyway (new barrel, new stock at least). I might as well keep this one as a loaner/wife gun.

I'm sure a 30-06 will do, but I don't think that it's the best caliber available. I do have to make some 500+ yard shots and shot a deer two years ago at 672 yards, so there are better calibers for that possibility. I have a few bags of the 165gr ABLR for the 270 WSM but they never did very well out of my gun. The 140 AB is what I've been using, though.

Have a friend in Pennsylvania has the 7mm RUM loves it.  Creedmoor not really a powerhouse 6.5 caliber.  Designed for the PRC crowd not so much as a hunting caliber.  Lot of horsepower left untapped in it.

How about a 27 Nosler then?    It would have the right twist rate and throat for those heavy 270 bullets you already have, will fit in a normal action, and if you loaded some lightweight Barnes bullets, I bet you could touch 4k fps pretty easy, which should make some very DRT deer.

I’ve been on one elk hunt and most of the guys were shooting 30.06. Nobody had issues with needing numerous shots to make a kill.

The Kimber 300 wsm with AAA wood I had was probably the most accurate and beautiful factory rifle I ever owned. Sold it to my nephew who now refuses to sell it back.

Bought my son a 6.5 PRC Tikka mainly because I have never owned or shot a Tikka. The round is really impressing me. I shot this today working on a load for it.

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I am also a fan of the Creedmoor but the PRC is really growing on me.

I’ve shot elk with the 45-70. The only drt elk I have shot was with a 7-08. Shot placement is everything.

I've climbed the caliber ladder up to 300WM and 7mmMag and slowly started climbing back down the ladder again.  I never saw anything out of the larger calibers that I couldn't also do with the a much smaller caliber.  Now I'm strictly a 243 shooter.  I found that I can be darn near laser accurate with my rifle because I get so much practice time with it.  Way more than I did with other calibers.  

As for tracking, I can understand not wanting to track due to your terrain, but I mean that's getting kind of picky.  I mean it's called "hunting" and not just "shooting".  Sometimes we get spoiled, myself included.  The only DRT shots I can pretty much predict every time are the high shoulder shots, the neck shot, and the spine shot (thought not what I would consider ethical).  If they run 20 to 30 yards, that's just part of the experience.

I went .300 PRC.   The ability to push a .30 cal 212 grain bullet at roughly 2900 FPS is a great thing.

If you want dead right there kills, you need to consider velocity and bullet construction..

It's hard to get lightning kills when the bullet opens slowly, plows deeply, and creates a narrow wound channel.  Instantaneous kills need more dramatic expansion. There are only two ways to get that:  Faster impact speeds and/or faster expanding bullets.

One of the longest runs after a solid hit I've seen has been with a 225 grain Nolser Partition out of a 350 Rem Mag.  This is a damned big caliber, and throws serious power.  The problem is that much of the power is wasted "killing" the hillside behind the deer.  Narrow wound channels, complete pass throughs, and much of the power is expended outside the deer.  I've personally seen 100 pound button bucks run 200 yards after being center drilled with 300 WSM and "hard" bullets.  Its the same problem.

In constrast, I've hunted with the same short 20" barreled Rem Seven in 308.  I'm fast approaching 30 years with this combination.  Due to short barrel length and this rifle's preference, both muzzle and impact speeds are very modest, even by 308 Win standards.  In reality, its more of a .300 Savage, given the way I load it. I've tried numerous bullets.  150 gr Hornady BTSP bullets always kill my deer, but those deer ALWAYS run a minimum of 75 yards..  In constrast, when I use the Nolser Ballistic Tip 165's, my deer NEVER run more than 25 yards, and in most cases, its dead right there, drop in its track performance.  Same rifle, similar speeds, but a difference in construction.

What construction do you need?  Its depends on impact speeds.  I shoot 280 AI, and love it.  muzzle speeds are an honest 3003 fps with 160 Nosler Partition.  This works well.  The partitions somewhat hard, but the 280AI is fast.  Fast speeds open the bullet.    The little 308 works wonderfully, but teh same partition acts differently:  muzzle speeds are about 2600 fps, and this 400 foot drop in speeds means the Ballistic Tip is MUCH better at these speeds.

Almost any decent deer cartridge from 6.5CM to 300 Mag (of any flavor) will reliably drop deer dead in their tracks.  And I'm talking northern 200 lb deer.  The key is matching impact speeds and bullet construction.  If your 6.5 isn't dropping them fast, you need a more lightly constructed bullet, that will open hard , vaporize more tissue, transmit more shock, and work more effectively within the impact speed limits of teh cartridge.  The TSX you used is likely the WORST bullet you could have chosen for the creed moor.  Its a tough bullet that needs speed the creed moor cannot deliver.

Personally, I'd use a Nosler Ballistic Tip in the 6.5 CM.  Yes, these bullets get a bad rap, but its usually because someone used on at a MV of 3000 fps on deer.  They will fail.  But at 2600, 2650, which is very realistic Creedmoor speeds, the BT is WONDERFUL.  NEVER use one on deer at 2900+

If you opt for a 280 AI, it's wonderful.  But remember you need a stouter bullet.  This may well be territory where the TSX shines. I opt for Partitions...  I would not touch the 28 Nolser.  Its waaaaay overbore.  Barrel life will be shit, and its burning a shit ton of powder for marginally more performance.  No thank you.

If you want to really hammer deer, consider shot placement carefully.  I've seen a great many deer, shot completely thru the heart, run 100, 200 hards before giving up.  Heart shots are always fatal, but they are rarely DRT fatal.  A slightly higher, slightly farther back double lunger does not sound as fatal, but deer cannot run far when both front legs are busted.  In addition, and slightly higher shoulder shot often seems to shock the spine.  Deer drop on the spot, and in the ten seconds they are down , the bleed out internally.  Instead of 10 seconds of panicked flight and 200 yards, its boom-flop, a couple of feeble kicks and light out...

The thing that new cartridges do better than the ones mentioned is deliver high energy with minimal drop at longer ranges. Yes, I can shoot a 30-06 or 308 and kill a deer at 500yd...but a 28 Nosler will do it with less skill needed by me.

And I already mentioned shooting over 500yd. 45-70 would definately make that tough

I'M very confident with my Tikka 6.5cm, and have had nearly every one that wasn't shot in the head or high shoulder (which ruins meat) ran. I've probably shot 25-30 deer with it, but admitting most were the aforementioned shots for management. It's the Creedmoor.

My calibers with more energy generally DRT. I don't know what to tell you, other than I have had better experience with larger calibers.

I totally get that point but tracking the deer isn't the issue. Finding downed animals is much harder than my experience in woods, and near impossible without a dog. I have a dog that I'm picking up at the end of the month that I want to train to sit in the stand with me. I have a drone that we've tried to use as well, but deer just blend in to the brush, you can't see further than 5ft in front, no leaves to find blood, and there is so much deer activity that it's impossible to distinguish your wounded deer's path from the other deer that used it minutes before.

Losing a deer worth 10k isn't worth avoiding a little recoil.

My hunting situation has changed. In Missouri or LA/MS I didn't mind tracking deer, dragging, or the slim possibility of losing a deer.  Trophy hunting in South Texas is an different expert.

I feel like I've used many of the most popular bullets for the 6.5, outside of Berger variants. Between moving and not having my reloading bench set up, as well as Covid wiping out the supply of most calibers, I haven't gotten to try those. I have Partitions as well, actually, and killed a deer last year with one.

One of the issues I have hunting is that I have different stands that offer opportunities at different ranges. I guess I can't really use a single bullet design for all of them....some stands offer a 75-100yd shot that would be fine with a 30-30. Others offer 500+ yard highline shots.

I have tried different shots as well, as I mentioned with moving to high shoulder shots. I've double lung shot deer as well, and that isn't a DRT ether. For me, the only DRT have been high shoulder and head, with smaller calibers. With the 270 WSM all have DRT with boilermaker shots.

I'd keep the 270wsm and load Hammer Hunter bullets. You won't need to worry about bullet failure at short range, or lack of penetration at long range. Being in S.Texas, I'd be considering nilgai as well, and those are pretty tough from what I understand.

I took a large cow elk with a 7mmWSM and Hammer Hunter bullets moving along at 3300fps. I'd anticipated 400-500 yd shots, and ended up at about 90 yards. An ABLR, ELDX or similar would have been questionable at that velocity. I took a double lung shot, full straight line pass through with enormous and immediate blood loss through the exit. The elk rotated 180* in place and I put another,  unnecessary shot (through the exit wound, oops) and it dropped there. Lungs and ribs were wrecked.

Load workup is very easy.

The old which caliber thread…. They always go in a million directions, and that is why I like them! Bigger/faster bullets dont always equate to DRT. I had a friend that only took neck shots because he didnt want to track deer. He figured they would drop, or he would miss all together…..I have made semi-marginal hits that dropped deer, as well as heart/lung shots that led to long tracks.  I guess adrenaline is a hell of a thing?  

I have a 7mag and a 300mag. I like them both and they are both acceptable choices for what you are after.

Sounds like money isnt an issue. So picking something like the .28 nosler or .300 PRC might be fun, just because you can? Or get into the big weatherby stuff like a 30-378…

I have talked myself into a 6.5 PRC, with the intention of adding 300 PRC as well. My current setups are sufficient for deer/elk/moose/bear, but why not expand a little? I dont think there is one “perfect” end all be all cartridge. So find one you like that shoots heavy enough/well constructed bullets at enough velocity to produce lots of energy.

Maybe 7mm Rem Mag?

Very available.  Plenty of power downrange, especially with newer ELD 7mm bullets.  Moderate recoil.

A 300WM is never the wrong answer

My next rifle

30-06 in a Sako 85 will meet your needs OP

FROZENY gave you a really good bit of insight.  Bullet construction, velocity, and shot placement all play roles in how quickly an animal goes down.  Here are a couple of examples:

1.  You are shooting a 30 caliber cartridge (pick one of many) shooting 200 grain bullets at 3000 fps.  You design this round for killing deer at 450-550 yards, but this time, your deer appears at 50 yards and you shoot and put the bullet right where you want..  However the bullet nearly explodes on impact leaving a giant entrance wound, and your animal runs off 50-75 yards before it bleeds out and dies.

2.  You usually shoot deer at 50-200 yards, so you select a 7mm-08 with a great bullet.  However, this time your deer appears at 520 yards..again you put the bullet where you want, but it lacks sufficient energy to expand so it nearly pencils through the animal.

My point is that any cartridge/bullet/caliber selection is playing the odds.  It is obvious that you have shot plenty of animals so you know the average distance at which your animals are shot.   All you can really do is select a cartridge that has the amount of energy you want, select a good bullet that will expand at the distance/velocity at which you expect to shoot.  

there are lots of bullet manufacturers that publish photos of how their bullet expands at a given velocity.  Figure out how much energy and velocity you want, then select a bullet that gives optimum performance at that velocity.

For example if you want to use a 7mm bullet and want optimum expansion between 2850 and 2450 fps, shop for a bullet that gives the performance you are looking for.    Starting velocity, velocity at the normal distance you shoot deer will give you the selection criteria.  

Rather than buying a new rifle, you might consider just having one of your existing rifles rebarreled to a cartridge you want to use.  7mm-08 Ackley improved, 7mm WSM or something like that might be a good choice...or 300 PRC.

I like the 270wsm. The only reason I'm switching rifles is because I need something with a threaded barrel and to rebarrel and restock this would be a large chunk of a new rifle cost.

270wsm ammo is hard to find and not getting any more popular so I figured why not move on.

I definitely agree with this. There isn't a perfect cartridge and I need different bullet designs for varying distances.

Of course, sometimes it's just fun to get into a new caliber and rifle

I have brought different bullets out for the same rifle before, with accubonds for a longer shot and partition for up close. It's a lot to keep up with ballistic wise, though.

I'm interested in 300 PRC after looking it up

Lower 48 use: .308 or .30-06. Factory ammo, and bullets and brass for reloading (in 'normal' times, anyway), are the easiest to source. Plus, the .30-cal projectiles can be had in a huge range of weights and styles.

Alaska: 30-06, but probably 300 WinMag, since you can push the heavier .308 bullets faster and farther, if needed.

No practical use for the 6.5 ManBun line of cartridges.

300 prc is a good choice. If you want stupid magnum power look at the 300 Norma mag as well.

I use 308 win. And it drops them sometimes. Others they run a little.

I jumped on board and was excited for the 6.5cm. I am not as excited now. I'll still use it for removing does from the property but just do not trust it for trophy kills.



I don't want stupid recoil though. Why can't they just make a short action caliber with belted-magnum like energy, 6.5 CM drift and drop, and the recoil of a 223. Thats all I'm asking for!

I just got a new puppy and am planning on training him to track. Maybe that can help with the running issue.

270 Winchester

Should do nicely.

My opinion, and it may be a bit off putting....If you cant get it done with good hunting rounds in the 6.5CM, I dont think you'll see any significantly better performance with another caliber, putting aside long shots on large game.


The 6.5CM is a .264 caliber bullet and thats a pretty popular round in Europe so....That said, it sounds like you've pretty well settled on the 300WM/WSM. Theres not a damn thing wrong with that and if you do your part it'll make meat out of about anything on the continent. It is a bit heavy on the recoil but thats the price to be paid I suppose.

If it were me and I didnt want the 6.5, I'd go with the gold standard for North America. Either the 30-06 or .270.

I took my new savage 280 ai out last week for the first time. I have poked around the 7mm cartridges in my manuals and settled on it. It pushes 7mm like a modern muscle car vs the old 60s tech 7 mag.

It is good performance. Very capable on large game like elk. As far as shooting, It was not really any difference between it and my creedmoor even though I was shooting 162 gr bullets. Very mild recoil.

Price....brass is hard to find right now. You can fire form of you are into that. I'm not and my rifle did not like the factory ammo I picked up.

I'm late joining this thread but thought I'd share a hunting experience. You mentioned a rifle/caliber to possibly use for elk. Many years ago in my younger years, I went to Colorado several times with a group of fellow Arkansans. We trailered horses and mules always going first season elk in Oct. purchasing OTC tags. We would always stop in Rifle at a hardware/sporting goods store to purchase tags various camping supplies. The store owners were always very friendly, freely sharing information about local hunting conditions, weather, game populations, etc. During one visit I asked one of the store guys what calibers were the most popular for elk. He said, well we sell all these magnum calibers to you out of state guys, probably .300 Win mag being the most popular. But us locals hunt with the standard calibers mostly 30-06, 270 win and 308 win. That was kind of an eye opening moment for me. There we 8-10 guys in our group, all carrying magnums. I carried a .338, best friend carrying a Weatherby .03-378, others .300 Win Mags, 7mm Rem Mags, etc.  Just something to think about.

I hunted South Texas (Encinal, Uvalde) for years with a two gun battery - hand loaded Remington 700's in .28 Rem Mag (LOL 7RM) and .257AI.  Big gun for big deer, small gun for everything else.  Mostly took spikes, culls, and does with head shots so they'd bleed out and no tracking.  I figured I'd use the 7RM if I was ever fortunate enough to hunt elk, but the only time I ever did I used a .270 with handloaded 150gr Partitions (didn't kill one).  If I had it to do over right now, I'd probably go with a .280AI since good factory ammo is (was) available and it gets you most of the performance of factory 7RM ammo.  Handloading will narrow the gap even further.  Just my $.02 worth.

PS - I understand that .300WM is the lower threshold of acceptable cartridges for Nilgai on most S. Texas hunts, so there's that.

I don't have the knowledge or experience as most guys posting in this thread but wanted to chime in anyways.  I just bought a Tikka Superlite in .308 Win.  At first I wasn't sure about .308 Win but the more I thought about it the happier I am with it.  Very common round, lots of ammunition options, I have other .308 rifles and it will do everything I need in a hunting rifle.  Most of my shots will be 100 yards or less with a max of maybe 200 yards.

Put it into the vitals, and it could run a long ways, or flop over.  You just never know for sure.  You could shoot a buck at 50 yards with a 300 winmag, and if you don't break bone, it could go 25 yards easy with a heart and lungs the consistency of pulpy orange juice.  I've watched that happen.
I'd say worry more about shot placement and less about caliber.  high shoulder with a .243 or 6.5 creed and the proper bullet and that deer isn't going 25 yards plus you won't have a ton of meat damage if you're into keeping the front shoulders salvageable.  

I've been transitioning to a high shoulder shot, and have killed a few deer with it. I also paralyzed one buck and it wasn't a great experience, front legs working and nothing behind that, trying to drag himself away.

It's hunting.  Not every shot will be clean.  You could have just as easily in that instance been aiming for a behind the shoulder vitals shot and jerked the trigger enough to put it in the guts.  Shoot enough animals and those things happen.  I've blood trailed deer for 2-3 miles before because I screwed up a shots with both gun and bow.

For clarity, I take deer/antelope shots based on terrain and proximity to property boundaries.  Wide open field or large expanse of grassland, I'm shooting behind the shoulder.  Animal walking along a property line or near thick cover?  Shoulder shot.

FYI, I ended up buying a Seekins Havak in 300 win mag. Chose that over PRC or WSM due to ammo availability, but almost all are hard to find right now.

Killed this 152" with it. Looked like a grenade went off in his chest, didn't move an inch. Shot a doe this morning with the 6.5 and she ran off into the brush 50ft. Took over an hour to get her out. I'm happy with the choice. Will probably stick with the 6.5 for meat deer and just continue head shots, and 300 for trophy/exotics.

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Congratulations on the great deer!

My .300 PRC is a Seekins Havak as well, and this past weekend I finally was able to shoot and zero it.  I’m running a 5-25 Nightforce ATACR on it.  The rifle shoots absolutely lights out.  Final 3-shot group after making all adjustments put 3 rounds in the same ragged hole at 100 yards with the Hornady Precision Hunter 212 ELD-X bullet.

I think I’d get a 7mm magnum or 30-06 mainly because I have neither one. A weatherby cartridge would be interesting.

This.  In lower MI we are limited on caliber so I use a 450 Bushmaster.

I've only hit one deer that was DRT with the Bushmaster.

The others I've used it on were pass throughs in the boiler room with solid blood trails, and the last one I shot I tried a new 450 round and it literally fucking vaporized the lungs and heart.  That deer still ran 50 yards into the brush.

Dupity

Just switch bullets. Hammer bullets have quickly be gaining a hell of a reputation.

I just read a review of the hammer bullets yesterday. I'll probably order some even though I ended up buying a case of the ELD-X for the 200wm