Hi Guys,

First time stopping over here.
I'm relatively new to hunting, and completely new to bird hunting. The future FIL says we're going Grouse hunting in Jan/Feb in Central PA.

All my shotguns are Tacti-fool guns and they're all 18" barrels.

What is desirable in a good bird gun?

I'm kinda thinking of just going with a cheap used double barrel from Sarco (<$200).
But I'm curious what people think is ideal for hunting grouse.

I'm assuming longer barrels are ideal because that's what everyone uses. But wouldn't that tighten your group? Wouldn't you want a larger pattern to improve chance of a hit? I'm assuming cylinder bore would be ideal, right?

Thanks in advance for advice.

Barrel length after a few inches has no effect on pattern density.

Choke, which is constriction at the muzzle, does.

For late season grouse I would choose improved cylinder. Most modern shot guns use choke tubes, which are tubes with different constrictions which screw into the muzzle(s.)

There is general agreement on choke order of constriction, which runs from most open for the widest patterns to tightest for the tightest, denses patterns: cylinder, skeet 1, improved cylinder, light modified aka skeet 2, modified, improved modified, full, extra full.

A relatively short barrel can be an advantage grouse hunting. 26" is short for a double, 24" is short for a pump or semi auto.

How about buying a field barrel for one of your tactical shotguns?

JPK

I did think about that. I have an 870 and a Moss 930? But from what I've seen barrels can be as expensive as the gun.
Plus I'd like something a little more Fud-esq. Cause they're nothing like a nice double barrel.

I actually have a double barrel, an LC Smith  field passed down from my great grandpa who hunted with it during the great depression. It stays in my father's safe and doesn't get fired much. Def not taking it into the woods.

20ga is plenty of gun for grouse.

12ga is probably a better choice if you might try other types of birds, like ducks or wild pheasants.

Honestly anything that fits you from a O/U, pump or auto will be fine.

Some people like shorter bbls (26") for grouse because of easier maneuverability in tight cover they like.

I hunt pheasant with my grandfathers savage built Fox AE grade.  Those old doubles are fine guns and are meant to be used.  Just learn how to care for them and don't abuse them.

The stock was loose on my Fox, I sent the stock off for some work - soaked it in acetone to pull decades of oil out of the grain, pinned rhe wrist for strength, refinished the wood, etc.   It should be good for decades to come.

This needs to be stressed OP.  There really is no reason not to hunt with your inherited LC Smith unless it is some
rare high grade gun.  Get some 2 1/2" shells from RST (order online) and don't use it when it rains or drag it through
brambles.  It will be just fine.  Both of my most used hunting guns are 1920's side by sides.  The biggest problem is
some of those old guns have weird stock dimensions in which case I would probably keep the family gun in the safe
too.

If you go used look at the Remington 870 Wingmaster or 11-87 Premier.  These are nice built guns with metal trigger guards and nice looking wood with other nice features. I picked up a Wingmaster for about 350.00 and it was not junk. I just bought a 11-87 for 470.00 in very nice condition and it’s on the way. Gunbroker for both purchases.

12 ga offers zero benefit over 20 ga when it comes to lead shot for upland loads.  If you have to use steel shot, it;s a different story.   Do not buy that cheap O/U...it's junk.  If you're on a budget get yourself a used remington, mossberg, winchester, etc... pump shotgun.

Ive used 20 and 12 for dove, quail, and pheasant. I would disagree with you.
20 ga is a rem 110
12, an 1187

I love my 20ga. Its really light, hardly any kick (compared to my nephews 20ga 870)
But personally it was easier with the 12 to kill them dead in the sky.
I missed more with my 20 than with my 12 on fast flyers.

On pheasant, there was many times where I shot the bird in flight only for it to fall out of the sky 1/2 mile to 1 mile away. Never had that issue with my 12 ga with the same shot.

I always suggest an automatic shotgun. Its more comfortable to shoot.

It's you or how the gun fits you, not the gauge.  There is no practical difference in pellet density between 1 1/4 of shot from a 20 ga and an 1 3/8-1 1 1/2 OZ's from a 12 ga.  Same with velocity and pellet energy 50-130 FPS faster muzzle velocities are negligible in terms of pellet energy when it comes to bird shot.  If anything, slower muzzle velocity usually means more uniform patterns.

What is entirely possible and more than likely probable, is that your shooting form is lacking.  Lighter and smaller guns stop just as fast as they start when it comes to swing.  Like most people, I'm willing to bet you lift your head to see if your shot was good.  On a 12 ga, you'll have more weight and you get some residual follow through because of the weight of the gun, doesn't happen with a 6 lb 20 ga.

From what you are describing, missing fast birds and watching birds drop a long ways off...you are behind the bird because you a lifting your head.  Your 12 ga's gun weight is compensating for this and it's why you shoot it better, not the actual ga itself.  If it was a an O/U I'd tell you to buy some 20 ga inserts and you'd be a believer.

What, no love for a 16 gauge?
Bought a Sweet 16 years ago with a poly choke.
Cut it down to 20", cylinder bore.
It was my favorite grouse gun, until my cousin borrowed it.
Now most of my upland hunting is done with  20 gauges.
As said, it's all on the how well it fits.

OP, I shoot a Walmart 870, don't worry about your gun, beg borrow or steal a good dog and you're fine!

May FIL gave my his Dad's 16 ga. Wingmaster from the '50's..... I freaking love that gun. The the idiots here banned lead, so steel shot is all I can hunt with. I can barely find 12 gauge, let alone 16.

OP, after going from a semi auto back to that 16 gauge pump my shot / kill ratio dropped dramatically and 1 box of shells always got a 15 bird limit with 5-6 shells leftover. A pump forces you to think / focus a little more..

An older shotgun is just meant to be used.

I have a Remington 20 ga standard that is now being shot by the 4th generation.
will be passed on to the 5th generation and so on.

as mentioned, any gun you are comfortable with, works.

hard to beat a pump gun. I grew up on 870s (16ga and then 12ga).
moved on to an 1100 because it was a semi auto.
moved to a new model 1187 SP supermag 12ga because it shoots 3.5" shells. ( I can count on fingers the times I have shot 3.5" shells).

years ago, I went to the O/Us.
I bought cheap O/Us and cried. Because that was exactly what they were. Cheap guns. If they broke good luck getting it fixed.

now I shoot Browning citori O/Us ( I bought mine used, been shooting them for 15+ years).
you can find used quality O/Us for what you will pay for a semi auto gun.
look for used brownings, Ithacas, Winchesters, old Charles Daly , Rugers, etc....
you will have to look, but deals are there.

I am on the hunt for a 311, 410, I will find the right deal one day.

I truly believe a good O/U or SxS will cause your shot/ kill ratio to improve. Something about slowing down and making that shot count.