If the rumors are true ... about time the 817 gets a replacement.

http://www.amateurradio.com/yaesu-ft-818-fact-or-fiction-2/

Look at the date...

Then I found this... So it does look they are working on it.

This might explain the several 817s on QRZ lately.

Interesting.
I'm looking at the Transceiver test report part 1 as filed. 0.1-470Mhz Tri-band-rx.  (it passed).

I find that the 5 watts is way to low, even for QRP under bad band conditions, as they have been for a long time now.
It would be so much better if they would consider bringing the max power output up to 25 watts.

Yes, the FT-857D is still out there as is the FT-891, but for an all band, soup-to-nuts radio, the FT-817 was THE radio for low power.
I owned 2 of the 817's, but became frustrated with the 5 watt power level.

I would stick with the 857D and just lower the output down to the lowest level before buying the "possible" FT-818.

They could pull an elecraft and go up to 15.

I've worked Russia with 5 watts

Attached File

20-25W is the decades long sweet spot for power vs performance vs battery life... it boggles my mind that HAM world cant figure this out

Was it CW? Did you do it today? Can you do it on demand? Unless the answer is yes, it doesnt really matter. Ive made fluke contacts all over the world before with 5W and its totally irrelevant since i cant do it on demand.

And is that a real pic. Cuz if it is im underwhelmed.

That picture is a hoax - been floating around the interwebs for years.

25 watts would be ideal, but then it would definitely take a compromise in overall size to accommodate the extra power requirements.

I really hope it can bring the RX current draw under 200ma.

Either way, I'm looking forward to more info from Yaesu!

The explanation I've heard is it's a lot harder to go from 5W to 25W than it is from 25W to 100W, design and component wise, so once they're
there, they just go to the full 100W. Notice how many rigs aren't true 100W rigs as well, but 50W rigs with duty cycle limits.

Saw the same. This stuck out: Third band frequency range 76-154 MHz.

Still no freaking weather band RX! Yep, it's a legit Yaesu QRP rig. sigh.

For reference: https://www.google.com/amp/qrpblog.com/2018/02/yaesu-ft-818-details-leaked-ft-817nd-replacement/amp/

Maybe transistors are hard to find. Most .mil rigs are massively derated. My 319 uses 200W transistors and runs at 50W.

They are working on it according to the FCC Docs

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=t5blC6hGG2ySHrjBO807Kg%3D%3D&fcc_id=K6603770X30

https://fccid.io/K6603770X30

If the Chinese can put out a 20w small hf radio why cant yaesu?

I have a CS108G that I bought new for $400. It isnt perfect, but it does digital modes without a signal link and I have talked 20 watts to eastern europe almost at will.

How did you do digital on the CS-108G+ without a Signalink? I figured trying to use the sound card and vox was too iffy. I will say with the Signalink, it works great, and I've made a number of contacts on PSK-31.

I've also used it to talk from Puerto Rico to Atlanta on voice with a mobile antenna mounted on the rent car. Worked well enough although band conditions that morning may have been better than the recent normal awful conditions.

My teammate down there had one as well. He claims if you go over about 15W, particularly on digital, you'll end up blowing out the finals. I didn't see that much of an issue, and it didn't heat up nearly as much as I would have expected.

My idea of "QRP" is about 20W, not 5. If you're OK with 5W, use a handi-talkie. If I'm gonna carry the extra weight of a much bigger radio (and tuner and battery and etc.), I want a much higher likelihood of being able to get thru when I need to. To me, that means 20-25W. It would be nice to have that in an all-bander. Would make the choice of what to put in a go-bag so much easier.

I think their view is $400 for not-perfect 20W radio v. $500 for not perfect 100W radio (like the Alinco SR8T is $489) means you should sell a $500 radio not a $400 radio because there's more customers for the 100W radio. $100 is buying 5X the output power. Once you go 100W you parly lose the ability to go small, though, due to heatsinks, etc (though obviously Icom did it with the 706/7000 radios, they were doing it as 2X the price.)

My takeaway is the 20W not-quite QRP market is a niche of a niche and apparently not big enough to support radios from the big guys.

I think you are right, but Icom had the 703 that did 10W, Elecraft has 2 radios in the 10W class, SGC used to make a 20W radio, the Chinese 20W radio is out there so its not like its a huge hurdle technically. What I Do find dumb is that that they are releasing a QRP rig at the bottom of the solar cycle? That seems pretty stupid IMO.

Solar  CYCLE

MOAR POWER!!!

QRO is what you need at the bottom of the solar cycle.

Well, screw it, all this excitement and I just went and bought a REAL QRP rig... None of this fancy fago fancy display stuff... Now I just need a hole to operate it out of to re live my yoof...

THIS

Couldn't use it if I had it.  I have enough trouble with 100 watts cruising around my attic.

As long as we are wishing......

I'd rather have more antenna.  A couple of 150' towers with a big yagi on top.

If all you have at the bottom of the cycle is big power, you just might be an alligator.

this is always the correct answer

I don't know how you do it with an attic antenna.
that's probably a bigger challenge than QRP in the field

Yup... I find that when running QRP, I mostly talk to guys running Yagis and the like anyway, so my 5W signal sounds like 100W to them. My favorite contacts have always been QRP->QRP guys running out in the field, and I have made a handful of those over the years. Rare to do that tho. But on my last big adventure out to Devils Tower I talked for a while with some dude in rural Oregon running basically the same setup I was 817+endfed at 5W. That was pretty cool.

That being said, Gators can always talk to other Gators.

I made a cable via instructions I found on the internet. It is USB to USB for rig cat and another cable that connects to the acc port on the radio ( mic input )and the speaker out to  speaker and mic plug on the laptop. No USB link required.

I will look for the link and post it.

I used it with a cheap USB audio fob in a USB port on the laptop so I would not have to change the audio settings on the laptop.

http://www.wildwestoutdoordigital.site/xiegu-x108g-ham-radio-deluxe-and-digital-modes-pskrttyft-8/

I am hoping this means there is an 858 in the works as well. The 857 is long overdue for a replacement. I know there is the 891 but even Yaesu has said that it is not the 857 replacement.

Its not really an 897 replacement either...

No, the 991 would be the 897 replacement.

You say that, but in reality its nowhere close.

897, = Badass Field portable rig you can run off a pick-a-nick table in 30 seconds. You can stuff batteries in the case and carry it with you, a bolt on LDG ATU lets you actually use field antennas. Of course you can just put it on your desk at home too and use it as a base station. It was pretty thrifty on receive current as well ~.7A if you were smart.

991 = Yet another lame indoor shelf rig, with a shitty 3:1 yaesu ATU (Built in! so you can't change it!) Receive current 2 AMPS! woo! aint gonna run that off batteries long.

I fondly hope that they won't fuck up the 818 but they probably will...

How hard is 20W, built in ATU, built in Lithium pack. All band all mode, and a nice USB out for digi modes?

How hard is 20W, built in ATU, built in Lithium pack. All band all mode, and a nice USB out for digi modes?Its pretty easy if you go green. But they are heavy....

Ten-Tec, too

I agree that 20-30W is a sweet spot in portable radio designs.

USB out?

USB port for computer hookup...not Upper Side Band

Yeah sorry, computer interface with a built in sound card like the 7200 has.

Its not hard at all, except that it doesn't fit any traditional amateur radio role. So no one will make it.

Traditions are changing.

Japanese (and a few other countries) amateur radio regulations don't care about the changing traditions. There are licensees in various countries with 10 watt limitations, which is where the 10 watt radios come from (and there are a bunch of those that US amateurs never see, because they are useless here). Traditional QRP is 5 watts. 100 watts is a traditional sweet spot for standard HF radios. Manufacturers don't see where a 25 watt HF radio fits, versus a 100 watt radio.

The radio that folks want for this application, or something pretty close to it, could be done pretty readily by one manufacturer who infringes on the margins of the concept from two different directions. The Elecraft K2 is almost unknown and overlooked nowadays, but it's almost ideal for what people want other than not having enough output power in base configuration and not having 6 or 2 meters. An updated version, with those capabilities and a built in wide-range tuner would be basically an overgrown IC703 and check all the boxes that the backpack HF folks seem to want. But I shudder to think of what it would cost.  Or they could go at it from the direction of a KX3-Plus, with more output power and a tuner.

I think realistically most radio manufacturers look at their market size, and I imagine that the US market is one of the bigger ones. I could be wrong, but per captia Japan would have to have 3x the number of HAMs to be equal to the US. That also being said, "traditional" QRP is bunk, no one gives a damn if your radio is running 5W or 100. It was cool when dudes used to roll their own from kits. And you can always turn down the power into QRP cool dude mode if you really feel like it, but in all my years of operating I've never had anyone tell me how cool it was to be talking to a QRP station, usually I get you are hard to copy now sod off. 20W works because its just barely enough for voice to work, plenty enough for CW and data to work really well. Since the solar cycle has taken its downard turn, I'm using 20W just fine for alot of CW and data and even the occasional voice contact.

As for traditional radio role, yeah fine, the duffer brigade that could do CW was fine with 5W CW radios (for the record I have a KX-1 to do this). But I would argue the new generation of hams that never learned CW want a radio on which SSB voice or an easy data interface is at least a realistic option. 20 years ago SGC made a 20W field radio, and ten tec used to make the scout and there have been ton of various commercial and mil rigs are out there that do but the "latest" technology on them is from the 70's for the most part. So there is a use, and market especially since an increasing number of HAM's in the US have gotten into the hobby for EMCOMM reasons.

That being said I think Elecraft would KILL in this market segment IF they could deliver a solid 20W radio that wouldn't break if you looked at it wrong (sorry elecraft, hire an actual mechanical engineer, not cousin goober and his box of crayons), HF only is fine IMO, all band would be nicer though. SSB, CW, and an easy data interface. Despite the KX-2/3 being shitty in the durability department and a bit underpowered for voice they have IMO already cornered the SOTA market with the KX-2 and KX-3. The K2 IMO was never a real contender as it was intended as desktop/pick-nick table rig at best and even then it did 15W. Frankly if ICOM brought back the 703 that could pump out 20W and a wider range tuner, and clip on battery box of some sort I'd buy it tomorrow for up to 1500 bucks.

If youkits of all people can manage to cobble together something like the TJ5a for 350, then a real radio company (sorry youkits) like yaesu, icom, ten-tec or kenwood or even elecraft can spend a few bucks more and build in a wide range tuner and a detachable battery box for twice the price (why in all of holy fuck is a detachable battery box so much to fucking ask for? Its a BOX, with CLAMPS, I know EE's are kinda goobers when it comes to complicated topics like a BOX but come on, I'm sure if you got enough of them together with some pliers and a blow torch they could figure it out. And double plus extra good if they could master a rubber grommet seals (you know that newfangled 1930's technology) for their radio so I don't have to carry it around in a ziplock bag for gods sake.

Yup... Too bad most radio manufacturers are not...

I can't argue with any of this, and pretty much sums up my Opinion on the entire premise.

edit to remove inflammatory opinions

The CS (X) 108G is a 20 watt HF radio with a decent reciever. Yes it is chinese but it cost $400.

I operate mine at the beach with a stick in the sand vertical , no ground radials and SSB talk to eastern europe from the north east on batter power for hours.

20 watts is 6 db over 5 watts, it makes a difference

It is fun.

Eta. Apparently I have already posted almost the same thing in this thread before. I have a very good memory, it's just very short

No worries Mach, your OODA loop is just super fast

I'm using my 817 with the amp these days, and I've debated either the CS (X) or the youkits rig I posted. I just wish I had beach so I could use cheater salt water antennas like you do. Plus its a whole lot closer to Europe from where you are at. I mainly wish I didn't have to haul the amp/battery around though.

My heart skipped a beat with the email...
6 watts. Meh

yaesu-ft-818

Saw that. What a joke, its barely an updated 817, presumably because they had to source new parts makers, and LOL at the AMSAT advertising... Its looking like my next HF rig might be made in china...

Few remaining thoughts:

George made a great point in the 2017 shopping show....by the time one outfits a New 817 as most do, they've invested near or the same $$ that will buy a (better performing) KX2.

The biggest winners in this will be those who find Great Deals on the Proven 817 on the Used Swap sites as owners drop to snag the Newest version of the same radio (you know those guys, right).  
And that may be a good thing to look towards if you're interested in getting started with low-cost portable QRP

C'mon Yaesu...

even my crappy photoshopped pic looks better