User Panel
[#1]
Quoted:
I am very skeptical of this claim. All cellphone battieries will self discharge over time, so that "Test" will prove that your battery is working like every other one in the world. My flashlights do this, and I already mentioned this in a previous post about my iPad. There is one newer feature on phones however that can wake up a phone that is turned off, and that is the RFID chip in many newer devices. One of it's functions is recognizing a wireless charging field and activating the charge circuitry. But my car keys have one of those embedded in them, so are they able to be activated by the Spooks also? If you have some proof of these Black Ops features, kindly provide a link or some source material so that we may explore a defense against them. Maybe I just don't remember all those selfies they used to take pics of Bin Laden when he was on the lam. Or, he might not have been a high priority target? View Quote |
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[#2]
Quoted: My Samsung S5 has a removable battery. The phone is almost brand new. I bought it only 4 years ago and it does everything just fine. I don't plan to replace this phone anytime soon. I really love the power saving feature. The power saving mode switches off all non-essential apps and features. The screen goes black and white and the battery will last at least a week without recharging (with moderate use). Charging ports went to crap on all of my previous phones. This phone takes a much wider plug and it's hard to damage. View Quote |
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[#3]
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your phone can not only be tracked while off, the camera and mic can also be activated and monitored remotely while "off". i know for a fact federal and state law enforcement have access to those tools. i am sure bad guys with malware do as well. That said it requires a LOT of paperwork to get such things approved for use. it's not something the gov is going to do unless they are looking at you already. if the battery is in and charged it is never truly "off". power it off and let it sit for a few days. you will notice the battery has dropped a minor amount while powered off. View Quote It's certainly possible to listen passively for a signal sent to the phone somehow, but that would require being near the phone. It would also kill the battery pretty quick even when turned off. ETA: I'm certain that there are all kinds of ways to compromise phones, but I think most of the stuff posted in this thread is little more than hearsay. |
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[#4]
Something I just thought of: instead of pulling the battery, what would happen if you pulled the SIM card? Would that be enough to keep the cell phone from being tracked?
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[#5]
as those tools require cell activity to pull data remotely... yes in general. that said it can also be done through wifi in some cases. it is possible without a sim card if access to the wifi network is possible or your phone gets internet access through wifi. iirc that tool requires 3rd party software on the device. .
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[#6]
There's a reason they make the battery non removable on most phones.
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[#7]
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There's a reason they make the battery non removable on most phones. View Quote Apple sealed up the phone for the same reason they solder the memory onto their laptop motherboards now, because they are dicks who want you to buy a new device sooner. |
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[#8]
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[#9]
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There sure is! They are all going water proof. When I bought my S6 active it was the only model in the S6 line that was water proof, and the only one without a removable battery. Now they are all water proof. Apple sealed up the phone for the same reason they solder the memory onto their laptop motherboards now, because they are dicks who want you to buy a new device sooner. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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There's a reason they make the battery non removable on most phones. Apple sealed up the phone for the same reason they solder the memory onto their laptop motherboards now, because they are dicks who want you to buy a new device sooner. |
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[#10]
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[#11]
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[#12]
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I’m curious which part of “low power mode” you believe GPS and location reports over cellular data count as. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Of course you would say that. So, yes, you can track a phone while "off" because it's not really off. As for whether you can track a phone without a battery, that is much, much more difficult and you'd have to know a lot about that particular phone for the methods I've heard about to be effective. Battery out, in a Faraday bag, most likely not trackable. Not usable, mind you, but not trackable either. |
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[#13]
Uh.....
How about a metal GI ammo can ? Seems like that would work. |
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[#14]
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[#15]
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[#16]
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Don't need GPS in the phone if the unit is talking to the cell towers. Location can be derived from them. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Of course you would say that. So, yes, you can track a phone while "off" because it's not really off. As for whether you can track a phone without a battery, that is much, much more difficult and you'd have to know a lot about that particular phone for the methods I've heard about to be effective. Battery out, in a Faraday bag, most likely not trackable. Not usable, mind you, but not trackable either. You didn't answer the question. |
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[#17]
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Uh..... How about a metal GI ammo can ? Seems like that would work. View Quote A cheap way to improve it: Use sandpaper and remove the paint from the can's opening edges (that sit against the gasket when the can is closed). Apply a thin layer of NoOx paste on bare metal of the the sanded edges. Bearing grease can be used if nothing else is available. Cut a piece of uncoated aluminum foil, slightly larger than the can opening. Place the foil over the can opening and close the lid on top of it. Put the shiny side against the edges if the aluminum foil is coated on one side. This should provide a much better shielding. You can also put some 2" aluminum HVAC sticky tape around the closed lid gap to further improve the shielding. |
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[#18]
New to this site. Any phone is not allowed in a High Side discussion. Does not matter if it is on or off. That is Uncle Sams direction. I never take my phone with me to places I don’t want people listening to me.
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[#19]
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[#20]
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Cellular radios use more power than GPS receivers. You didn't answer the question. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Of course you would say that. So, yes, you can track a phone while "off" because it's not really off. As for whether you can track a phone without a battery, that is much, much more difficult and you'd have to know a lot about that particular phone for the methods I've heard about to be effective. Battery out, in a Faraday bag, most likely not trackable. Not usable, mind you, but not trackable either. You didn't answer the question. |
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[#21]
Quoted: And? Low power mode doesn't mean off. Any number of methods could be used to intermittently ping towers from which location can be derived directly. Using periodic control-only handshakes on an infrequent basis can be used to discern location. You do understand that even when the fone is "on" that it modulates the power level it uses to talk to cell towers, don't you? Why would you not think that "off" merely means using less power? View Quote |
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[#22]
Quoted: 4 years old and almost new phone does not compute. You realize they’ve moved on to the 10 now right? View Quote They moved to 10 now? Cool. I'll get a 10 when they move to 25...…….or maybe not. I wouldn't mind getting a flip phone with a decent prepaid plan. Unfortunately all prepaid plans really suck here in the US. |
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[#23]
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I'm pretty sure you don't have the foggiest idea what you're talking about. You still haven't answered my question. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: And? Low power mode doesn't mean off. Any number of methods could be used to intermittently ping towers from which location can be derived directly. Using periodic control-only handshakes on an infrequent basis can be used to discern location. You do understand that even when the fone is "on" that it modulates the power level it uses to talk to cell towers, don't you? Why would you not think that "off" merely means using less power? |
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[#24]
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and, what is the reason? do you work for apple or samsung? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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[#25]
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[#26]
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[#27]
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[#28]
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I was playing around at work one day and tried that (cell phone inside an aluminized bag). I was able to get a call to my phone. So I'm not sure if a chip bag works. Didn't for me. (merged quotes) Nope. Just tried that (cell phone inside a microwave) here at work. Phone rang when called. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
I was playing around at work one day and tried that (cell phone inside an aluminized bag). I was able to get a call to my phone. So I'm not sure if a chip bag works. Didn't for me. (merged quotes) Nope. Just tried that (cell phone inside a microwave) here at work. Phone rang when called. Quoted:
the particular Cheetos bag you have may provide just enough attenuation AT THE YOUR PHONE'S OPERATING FREQUENCY to decrease the currently available signal below the receiver's signal to noise threshold. THIS DOES NOT MEAN YOUR PHONE WILL NOT WORK IF YOU ARE CLOSER TO A CELL TOWER or if you walk outside and take the building attenuation out of the equation or if you are in an environment with less RF noise such as a park. IT ALSO DOES NOT MEAN THAT FREQUENCIES HIGHER OR LOWER THAN WHAT YOUR CELLPHONE IS CURRENTLY OPERATING AT ARE NOT PENETRATING THE BAG. |
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[#30]
Quoted: And? Low power mode doesn't mean off. Any number of methods could be used to intermittently ping towers from which location can be derived directly. Using periodic control-only handshakes on an infrequent basis can be used to discern location. You do understand that even when the fone is "on" that it modulates the power level it uses to talk to cell towers, don't you? Why would you not think that "off" merely means using less power? View Quote Just to make sure I am understanding you all correctly - You are suggesting that every cell phone is designed to stay in a "spy mode" when powered off, and every cell phone chip/firmware/OS manufacturer is in on this secret? And this is either kept a secret or has gone unnoticed by the hundreds of thousands (or millions?) of techs working on the technology and has also not been observed by anybody? I know there are dev versions of phone firmware that allow you to do things like change your IMEI or one of any other completely arbitrary things. I'm not arguing that any of these things are not possible, it just seems that it requires modifying or compromising a phone. Banning phones in a secure area doesn't imply all phones are always listening to you, just that it *is* possible and no risks are taken. |
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[#31]
Quoted: Banning phones in a secure area doesn't imply all phones are always listening to you, just that it *is* possible and no risks are taken. View Quote Feel free to keep your cell phone inside an ammo can or your cheetos bag if it helps you sleep at night. The only surefire method of avoiding being tracked if thats what you are scared of is to not have a phone. |
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[#32]
Quoted:
i am an engineer at an R&D facility which has on the order of 50 screened rooms and anechoic chambers -- they are used for a variety of purposes, including providing isolation of mobile terminals from the public cellular network, and "other". the difficulty you face with realizing a shielded enclosure is neither engineering nor construction. the issues you will have surround apertures and long term reliability. apertures are windows, doors, vents, registers, cableways, and so on. these leak RF to one extent or the other. it can be extraordinarily difficult to provide effecting shielding when there are windows, doors, vents, registers, cableways, and so on -- you know, the sorts of features that make the room liveable for people, and at a smaller scale a box usable. long term reliability is a factor because whenever dissimilar metals are in contact in an environment containing water vapor (e.g. air), galvanic corrosion occurs. the corrosion increases the resistance between adjacent/adjoining pieces of metal, thereby decreasing shielding effectiveness. the above are the two main problems associated with high performance shielded enclosure. it's also why it's easy to end up spending US$100K to implement a simple shielded room. the building i work in has around 50 shielded rooms and labs, each typically about 20' x 30'. and when i say "shielded" i mean an industrial 6 sided solid wall room with >100dB attenuation of frequencies from DC to daylight. all AC power into the rooms goes through instrument-grade three phase EMC/EMI filters including LISN's. the typical door into one of these rooms is about 4 feet wide and 7 feet tall, with a raised sill and metallic finger gasketing around the entire perimeter. the metallic gasketing must be periodically cleaned in order to maintain contact conductivity, and periodically replaced to maintain contact pressure. this is the level of design and maintenance attention required to maintain 100db shielding effectiveness. the anechoic rooms (example below) are a whole other matter. basically, an anechoic room is a shielded room into which one builds carbon absorber arrays which prevent signals INSIDE the chamber from reflecting from the floor, walls, or ceiling. the largest we have is a 10m (~33') NIST-certifed anechoic room, used for both radiated compliance and electromagnetic immunity testing. the floor is completely tiled with carbon absorber material, and the walls have carbon-impregnated trapezoidal absorbers (the white you see in the picture is from the removable foam protectors which prevent damage to the tip of the carbon absorbers, and they also make the room a hell of a lot brighter...) ar-jedi https://ziva.losdos.dyndns.org/public/ham/reference/emc-chamber-inside.jpg https://ziva.losdos.dyndns.org/public/ham/reference/emc-chamber-door.jpg View Quote I enjoyed your post very much. I have designed these in my mind, but have never actually seen any. Very COOL! Funny, I thought you were a financial guy because your posts on those matters are always dead on. Turns out you are an engineer like me. I guess we can not help trying to figure out how all of the world works on a daily basis. Thanks for the contribution! |
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[#33]
Quoted:
I enjoyed your post very much. I have designed these in my mind, but have never actually seen any. Very COOL! Funny, I thought you were a financial guy because your posts on those matters are always dead on. Turns out you are an engineer like me. I guess we can not help trying to figure out how all of the world works on a daily basis. Thanks for the contribution! View Quote one of the more interesting aspects (to me) of the anechoic room setup is the complete lack of metal above the ground plane. any metal located in the RF field can cause reflections and/or other anomalies in the chamber. for example, in the far corners of the chamber pictured above you will note two "stands" -- these are fiberglass masts which mount the antennas used to illuminate (RF-wise) the EUT (equipment under test) during immunity testing, or receive RF during emissions compliance testing. during testing, the height of the antennas must be varied, and the polarization of the antennas must be changed (vertical to horizontal). all of this is done entirely without metal -- instead, there are pneumatic cylinders made from nylon (and similar plastics) driven by air pressure carried over plastic tubing from compressors/tanks external to the chamber. even the field strength characterization instrumentation utilized is optimized for minimal disruption of the uniformity of the RF field -- the wideband receivers are rechargable-battery-powered and housed in (wait for it...) pack-of-cigarette-sized faraday cages; the measurement signals are transmitted outside the chamber over RF-transparent fiber optics, where other instruments (spectrum analyzers) measure/record the field strength. in effect, it's as if you took the entire RF front end from a typical desktop spectrum analyzer and "remoted" it via fiber. aside, the use of an shielded room is the primary reason why when you see DIY "EMP immunity" testing on youtube the results will differ dramatically depending on what size the room is, what frequency is being tested, how high the EUT is mounted off the floor, how big the EUT is compared to the room, and so on and so on. the reason for this is all the standing waves and reflections inside a shielded room; in fact at many frequencies the shielded room will be cavity-resonant. hence the primary purpose of an anechoic room, a completely homogeneous field environment -- from the EUT's perspective, it looks like an OATS but doesn't suffer from OATS problems. https://interferencetechnology.com/emissions-test-facility-oats-vs-sac/ |
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[#35]
Quoted:
ABC news drove around with a cell phone "off" and it was still tracked. "Sources and methods" issues guarantee that the fact it can be tracked will be met with "tin foil conspiracy" allegations in any such thread. View Quote |
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[#36]
I have come across a problem along these lines..
I have a 12x20 portable building in my back yard I am finishing out to use as a shop. The walls and roof have a layer of radiant heat barrier foil on the inside. It works quite well. After I completed the AC wiring, insulation and pine tongue & grove paneling I installed a mini split. At that point I noticed that my Wi-Fi signal from the house was limited and so was the cellular signal. Outside of the door of the shop both are great. The windows are cheap but should work fine but I found some bubble pack type radiant barrier at Home Depot that I cut and placed into the windows to help with the sun.. Right now its crazy hot here.. At this point my Wi-Fi and cellular signal totally died. If your building a house I think using some type of radiant barrier is a great idea but you may need to install a cell signal booster.. Il be running a cable to an additional access point in the shop for Wi-Fi... |
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[#37]
Quoted:
Lots of GD being brought into this forum again. Not sure why people dont just answer the question. Leave all the negativity out of here. To the question. Just google faraday cell phone cases. You will see many that you can buy. I’d also look into a wallet that stops rf so people can’t steal your credit card info. View Quote |
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[#38]
Quoted: Sure, this is *possible*. But there is no evidence that every phone does this while powered off. Just to make sure I am understanding you all correctly - You are suggesting that every cell phone is designed to stay in a "spy mode" when powered off, and every cell phone chip/firmware/OS manufacturer is in on this secret? And this is either kept a secret or has gone unnoticed by the hundreds of thousands (or millions?) of techs working on the technology and has also not been observed by anybody? I know there are dev versions of phone firmware that allow you to do things like change your IMEI or one of any other completely arbitrary things. I'm not arguing that any of these things are not possible, it just seems that it requires modifying or compromising a phone. Banning phones in a secure area doesn't imply all phones are always listening to you, just that it *is* possible and no risks are taken. View Quote |
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[#39]
Quoted:
@MTBGunner one of the more interesting aspects (to me) of the anechoic room setup is the complete lack of metal above the ground plane. any metal located in the RF field can cause reflections and/or other anomalies in the chamber. for example, in the far corners of the chamber pictured above you will note two "stands" -- these are fiberglass masts which mount the antennas used to illuminate (RF-wise) the EUT (equipment under test) during immunity testing, or receive RF during emissions compliance testing. during testing, the height of the antennas must be varied, and the polarization of the antennas must be changed (vertical to horizontal). all of this is done entirely without metal -- instead, there are pneumatic cylinders made from nylon (and similar plastics) driven by air pressure carried over plastic tubing from compressors/tanks external to the chamber. even the field strength characterization instrumentation utilized is optimized for minimal disruption of the uniformity of the RF field -- the wideband receivers are rechargable-battery-powered and housed in (wait for it...) pack-of-cigarette-sized faraday cages; the measurement signals are transmitted outside the chamber over RF-transparent fiber optics, where other instruments (spectrum analyzers) measure/record the field strength. in effect, it's as if you took the entire RF front end from a typical desktop spectrum analyzer and "remoted" it via fiber. aside, the use of an shielded room is the primary reason why when you see DIY "EMP immunity" testing on youtube the results will differ dramatically depending on what size the room is, what frequency is being tested, how high the EUT is mounted off the floor, how big the EUT is compared to the room, and so on and so on. the reason for this is all the standing waves and reflections inside a shielded room; in fact at many frequencies the shielded room will be cavity-resonant. hence the primary purpose of an anechoic room, a completely homogeneous field environment -- from the EUT's perspective, it looks like an OATS but doesn't suffer from OATS problems. https://interferencetechnology.com/emissions-test-facility-oats-vs-sac/ View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
I enjoyed your post very much. I have designed these in my mind, but have never actually seen any. Very COOL! Funny, I thought you were a financial guy because your posts on those matters are always dead on. Turns out you are an engineer like me. I guess we can not help trying to figure out how all of the world works on a daily basis. Thanks for the contribution! one of the more interesting aspects (to me) of the anechoic room setup is the complete lack of metal above the ground plane. any metal located in the RF field can cause reflections and/or other anomalies in the chamber. for example, in the far corners of the chamber pictured above you will note two "stands" -- these are fiberglass masts which mount the antennas used to illuminate (RF-wise) the EUT (equipment under test) during immunity testing, or receive RF during emissions compliance testing. during testing, the height of the antennas must be varied, and the polarization of the antennas must be changed (vertical to horizontal). all of this is done entirely without metal -- instead, there are pneumatic cylinders made from nylon (and similar plastics) driven by air pressure carried over plastic tubing from compressors/tanks external to the chamber. even the field strength characterization instrumentation utilized is optimized for minimal disruption of the uniformity of the RF field -- the wideband receivers are rechargable-battery-powered and housed in (wait for it...) pack-of-cigarette-sized faraday cages; the measurement signals are transmitted outside the chamber over RF-transparent fiber optics, where other instruments (spectrum analyzers) measure/record the field strength. in effect, it's as if you took the entire RF front end from a typical desktop spectrum analyzer and "remoted" it via fiber. aside, the use of an shielded room is the primary reason why when you see DIY "EMP immunity" testing on youtube the results will differ dramatically depending on what size the room is, what frequency is being tested, how high the EUT is mounted off the floor, how big the EUT is compared to the room, and so on and so on. the reason for this is all the standing waves and reflections inside a shielded room; in fact at many frequencies the shielded room will be cavity-resonant. hence the primary purpose of an anechoic room, a completely homogeneous field environment -- from the EUT's perspective, it looks like an OATS but doesn't suffer from OATS problems. https://interferencetechnology.com/emissions-test-facility-oats-vs-sac/ Do you have to pull the lights up into the ceiling and run the tests in the dark? |
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