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Nice. When I made my endfed unun used 3 turns on the primary, on the secondary had 21 turns for 49:1 but I also added a second tap to the transformer at 9 turns for 9:1. It works pretty well and lets me use resonant wire lengths on 49:1 and pseudo-random wires on the 9:1 terminal.
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Quoted: Neat idea! Definitely opens options up if you have to improvise with different lengths of wire. For laughs I plotted the projection for a match and radiating pattern of the 80M EFHW on 6 meters, being that 50 MHZ is about the 14th harmonic. It's workable, but man that pattern is wild. https://www.dropbox.com/s/vyq8lvxbuggxi5j/6mefhw.jpg?raw=1 View Quote "This is your 80M EFHW on drugs" Useful info - unfortunately all of my 'large' toroids are mix 31 (because I got them for EMI suppression, not for use as RF transformers) - guess that I'll have to order another core - I swear that every time I look at this forum I end up spending money... |
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Quoted: "This is your 80M EFHW on drugs" Useful info - unfortunately all of my 'large' toroids are mix 31 (because I got them for EMI suppression, not for use as RF transformers) - guess that I'll have to order another core - I swear that every time I look at this forum I end up spending money... View Quote The 240 size should handle 100 watts just fine, and if you stack 2 or 3 of those you can push several hundred to maybe 1K watts. Failed To Load Product Data Failed To Load Product Data |
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Quoted: The 43 mix are available as singles on Amazon for not terrible money. The 140 size is good for up to about 20 watts and is what I use for QRP. The 240 size should handle 100 watts just fine, and if you stack 2 or 3 of those you can push several hundred to maybe 1K watts. www.amazon.com/dp/B0178IABXW www.amazon.com/dp/B0178IA3XU View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: "This is your 80M EFHW on drugs" Useful info - unfortunately all of my 'large' toroids are mix 31 (because I got them for EMI suppression, not for use as RF transformers) - guess that I'll have to order another core - I swear that every time I look at this forum I end up spending money... The 240 size should handle 100 watts just fine, and if you stack 2 or 3 of those you can push several hundred to maybe 1K watts. www.amazon.com/dp/B0178IABXW www.amazon.com/dp/B0178IA3XU The problem is, "in for a penny, in for a pound"... The 240 size is available from Mouser for just over $5 per core, but of course shipping is not included, so while I'm at it I generally order other stuff that fits in the same box for the same shipping cost. It's hard to maintain discipline in such a situation so I'm like a kid in a candy shop. My shopping cart is up to $50 already, with more to come... |
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True, I always say I can get something cheaper from Mouser, but then fall into the hole of adding extra bits to make the shipping worth it, and end up spending more in the end.
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I've bought a few toroids from kf7p.com. 240-43's are about $6.20 ea. 5 lb or less generally ships priority mail.
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Cool post! I ordered some toroids and wire today to give this a try. I have enough room for one cut for 40 meters, not happy with the OCFD that’s up currently.
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The unun I posted earlier uses 240-43 cores, I always make sure I get name brand ones. Amazon can be iffy sometime in that regard.
My unun also has a 1:1 current Balun under the multi tapped xfmer. I wouldn't do that again, it would be more effective work a few feet away where there is a current maxima. Granted I've never had any problems with RF on the shield. I also have a autotransformer switch that either connects the grounds on the transformer together or lets the secondary float. I wouldn't do that again either as it typically works better with them connected. |
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I bought 3 toroids to stack. I want to be able to put some power to mine.??
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Quoted: Thanks again OP for inspiring me to give this a try. I have my housing ready to go. As soon as my toroids, enameled wire, copperweld antenna wire, and enclosure vent arrive I'll post another pic.https://i.postimg.cc/2jTWHHwG/A7-DCF777-0-D69-46-CD-924-D-0-CE074-F67-E1-A.jpg View Quote Good deal! Since you're building with a focus for higher power, check out Steve Ellington, N4LQ's videos on Youtube, he's done a lot of setup testing for permanent, high power installs. IIRC, he uses 3 cores and 14 gauge enamel wire to make the transformer, and uses both a ground rod at the transformer and a high power RF choke on the coax several feet from the feed point to give the best performance and lower noise. |
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Quoted: Good deal! Since you're building with a focus for higher power, check out Steve Ellington, N4LQ's videos on Youtube, he's done a lot of setup testing for permanent, high power installs. IIRC, he uses 3 cores and 14 gauge enamel wire to make the transformer, and uses both a ground rod at the transformer and a high power RF choke on the coax several feet from the feed point to give the best performance and lower noise. View Quote I have watched his videos, and am building my transformer and choke accordingly. My wire will be cut for 40 meters, and set up as a sloper. |
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OP, can you post a pic of your compensation coil? I’m still waiting on my toroids, but want to add this coil for 10m if it’s going to help even a little.
I’m also wondering if I’ll need the counterpoise, as my entire yard has 18 wires buried in a fan pattern underneath where the antenna will go up. The center of the fan is about 20 feet away from where the feed point will be, wonder if I should run a wire & connect it, or if just the wire being beneath it will be enough. I guess more counterpoise is better, but not sure. |
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Quoted: OP, can you post a pic of your compensation coil? I’m still waiting on my toroids, but want to add this coil for 10m if it’s going to help even a little. I’m also wondering if I’ll need the counterpoise, as my entire yard has 18 wires buried in a fan pattern underneath where the antenna will go up. The center of the fan is about 20 feet away from where the feed point will be, wonder if I should run a wire & connect it, or if just the wire being beneath it will be enough. I guess more counterpoise is better, but not sure. View Quote @my65pan A radial field is part of the antenna and needs to be connected to the shield side of the coax. The RF field that flows between the radial wires and the antenna element is what radiates. 73, Rob |
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Quoted: @my65pan A radial field is part of the antenna and needs to be connected to the shield side of the coax. The RF field that flows between the radial wires and the antenna element is what radiates. 73, Rob View Quote Not so sure about that, from W8JI: “A grid of conductors parallel to a dipole, laid on earth or suspended above earth, is often referred to as a counterpoise. After all, the word "radial" hardly fits a group of parallel wires with no real connection to the antenna's feed terminal. Counterpoise, in popular Ham radio conversation, has always described a conductor or group of conductors serving as an RF ground.” |
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Quoted: Decent chokes aren't hard to build. This one consists of rg316 wrapped on a type 31 core & housed in a weatherproof box from Lowes. http://www.skhowell.com/images/type-31-choke.jpg View Quote Yes, I’m winding mine with RG-400. |
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Quoted: I use 12 turns of RG-58 a/u on an FT 240-31 core, works great after testing by checking for field strength along the coax. RG-400 is an excellent choice as well! View Quote I chose RG-400 for its power handling capability, I want to be able to run 500-700 watts when needed. Same reason I’m using 3 toroids in my transformer. I’ll try putting my choke right at the transformer with my existing counterpoise not connected, try it connected, then try with a .05 counterpoise wire, then try it with the choke .05 away using the shield as a counterpoise & see what works best. Fun stuff! Antennas have always been my favorite aspect of ham radio. I can spend an entire weekend working on antennas & never touch a PTT or key and have more fun than actually being on the air. |
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Quoted: I chose RG-400 for its power handling capability, I want to be able to run 500-700 watts when needed. Same reason I'm using 3 toroids in my transformer. I'll try putting my choke right at the transformer with my existing counterpoise not connected, try it connected, then try with a .05 counterpoise wire, then try it with the choke .05 away using the shield as a counterpoise & see what works best. Fun stuff! Antennas have always been my favorite aspect of ham radio. I can spend an entire weekend working on antennas & never touch a PTT or key and have more fun than actually being on the air. View Quote |
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Thanks! I’ll try the choke at the feed point with a .05 counterpoise first & go from there. I have a ground rod to put in at the feed point also. Don’t like the idea of using the shield as a counterpoise, but I’ll try that too.
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You make me want to "borrow back" my HF gear and put something up in my back yard.
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When your doing a lot of FT8 and digital modes be cautious of how you mount it in the box. It will get hot.
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Quoted: Not so sure about that, from W8JI: “A grid of conductors parallel to a dipole, laid on earth or suspended above earth, is often referred to as a counterpoise. After all, the word "radial" hardly fits a group of parallel wires with no real connection to the antenna's feed terminal. Counterpoise, in popular Ham radio conversation, has always described a conductor or group of conductors serving as an RF ground.” View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: @my65pan A radial field is part of the antenna and needs to be connected to the shield side of the coax. The RF field that flows between the radial wires and the antenna element is what radiates. 73, Rob Not so sure about that, from W8JI: “A grid of conductors parallel to a dipole, laid on earth or suspended above earth, is often referred to as a counterpoise. After all, the word "radial" hardly fits a group of parallel wires with no real connection to the antenna's feed terminal. Counterpoise, in popular Ham radio conversation, has always described a conductor or group of conductors serving as an RF ground.” @my65pan An RF ground is not part of an antenna system or a radial field; though, they may look the same, the difference is in how they are used. I have wires on the ground under my dipole, they are not connected to anything, they are there to reduce ground losses. Picture a dipole, the current flows up the center of the coax and develops an electrostatic field and a magnetic field between the two wires of the dipole, the field actually flows between the two halves of the antenna. When the polarity is reversed (RF is Alternating Current.) the fields reverse in polarity and the process continues with the field flowing in the opposite direction. W8JI will tell you that radiation is due to charge acceleration down a wire. Picture a dipole again but point the center fed wire straight up, ground mount it with the shield side of the wire along the ground (earth) with a 90 degree angle between the two wires. It is still like the air mounted dipole where in the currents still need to flow between the two wires. Thus, the vertical still needs wire on both sides of the coax. In fact, because of 'ground losses' the most efficient coax fed vertical will need 120 radials to keep the RF energy from warming the worms. The point is, the end fed wire will still need some sort of radial field because there must be two sides to the antenna for the RF fields to flow between. The 'end-fed' antennas all use a matching device because the impedance is high at the end of the wire. The current there will be lower than the dipole but it will still need a return path, hence the other side of the antenna. Not trying to be preachy, I just want the theory to be understood. HTH 73, Rob |
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Quick wire question - Is the 'enamled' part of the internal wiring important? Will I see any weirdness if I use either the insulated hot/common or bare ground from residential 12/3 copper wiring? I think I remember something about the coatings doing weird things with capacitance, but that's just a faint echo in the back of my head.
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Quoted: Quick wire question - Is the 'enamled' part of the internal wiring important? Will I see any weirdness if I use either the insulated hot/common or bare ground from residential 12/3 copper wiring? I think I remember something about the coatings doing weird things with capacitance, but that's just a faint echo in the back of my head. View Quote Do not use bare copper wire. It will make a DC short on the first couple wraps where the primary and secondary windings are twisted together, negating the primary winding all together and essecially making it a single winding inductor with a tap at the second turn vs. a primary/secondary autotransformer. You can use insulated wire, but you will take a decent hit in efficiency losses in the core. Enameled wire is the best option because it's thin coating will give better coupling effect. |
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This is my vacation setup, I’m on the 2nd floor and the unun is hung from the handrail on the 3rd floor where my in-laws are staying. The far end is on a random piece of pvc I found and tied to a fence. A 50f counterpoise is dropped from the unun and run under the antenna.
Attached File Attached File The sweep looks pretty good on 80 and 40 but pretty bad on 20m (~3vswr.) |
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Quoted: This is my vacation setup, I'm on the 2nd floor and the unun is hung from the handrail on the 3rd floor where my in-laws are staying. The far end is on a random piece of pvc I found and tied to a fence. A 50f counterpoise is dropped from the unun and run under the antenna. The sweep looks pretty good on 80 and 40 but pretty bad on 20m (~3vswr.) View Quote Nice setup! That's similar to what I have found as well with the "random" wire fed 9:1 type end feds, you will get really variable results depending on the orientation and setup, and the length of the counterpoise also plays a big role. That's why they really recommend having a tuner to clean up the SWR a bit. And also the way they disguise the poor efficiency on the lower bands where the wire+CP don't add up to at least a half wave with "good" SWR. They're just really unpredictable sometimes. Still, 3:1 isn't terrible, and you might be able to improve it if you try shortening the CP (even just coil up the end). |
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FWIW I had better luck with the 49:1 setting on the unun vs the 9:1. The wire was 71ft long and I folded back about 2ft. I have a 12m mast with me but I'm not sure what to do with the radials / CP if I erect it on the upper level of the deck 40ft high. I can have one go down and maybe throw two or three on the roof...
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Quoted: Do not use bare copper wire. It will make a DC short on the first couple wraps where the primary and secondary windings are twisted together, negating the primary winding all together and essecially making it a single winding inductor with a tap at the second turn vs. a primary/secondary autotransformer. You can use insulated wire, but you will take a decent hit in efficiency losses in the core. Enameled wire is the best option because it's thin coating will give better coupling effect. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quick wire question - Is the 'enamled' part of the internal wiring important? Will I see any weirdness if I use either the insulated hot/common or bare ground from residential 12/3 copper wiring? I think I remember something about the coatings doing weird things with capacitance, but that's just a faint echo in the back of my head. Do not use bare copper wire. It will make a DC short on the first couple wraps where the primary and secondary windings are twisted together, negating the primary winding all together and essecially making it a single winding inductor with a tap at the second turn vs. a primary/secondary autotransformer. You can use insulated wire, but you will take a decent hit in efficiency losses in the core. Enameled wire is the best option because it's thin coating will give better coupling effect. @Amish_Bill You can get this stuff called Kapton tape to wrap the core before winding. The tape will protect the enameled wire from the core.73, Rob |
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I've used a layer of Teflon plumbing tape on cores before, seemed to work fine.
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@D_Man I spooled up about half the CP wire and my 20m swr went from 3.5 down to a little under 2.0 (at the radio using a tuner.) If the swr is much over 3 my MFJ-939 atu tries to retune in the middle of digital tx's and it's annoying and probably bad for the radio.
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Quoted: Transformer is ready. Gonna wait on cooler weather before stringing wire though. https://i.postimg.cc/K8v0nqMj/50455-A69-A62-F-4-AA2-B2-A8-24421-DDEE428.jpg View Quote You have the two twisted windings for the ground side isolated from one another, one to the ground post on the side of the box and one to the shield side of the coax connector. These need to be common to each other somehow, or else it's not an auto-transformer, but rather an isolated transformer. Unless you plan some external connection between the ground post and the coax shield, I would run both windings together to one of those points inside the box, and then a short jumper wire over to the other (or leave them as is and add a jumper between the coax connector and the side post). |
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I put a switch between the grounds on the primary and secondary. Sometimes it's better as an autotransformer and sometimes not...
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I see what you mean, I’ll reconfigure it tomorrow. How about just scraping the enamel off & soldering the two grounds together in the middle where they separate?
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Fixed it, I don’t know what I was thinking. Somehow got it in my head that they were connected already by twisting them together.
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This is the site I referenced when I was making unun's: https://www.nonstopsystems.com/radio/frank_radio_antenna_multiband_end-fed.htm
You don't have to connect them together, if you don't you have to use a CP - which to me isn't a problem as I didn't want radiating feedline. My dual tapped unun with the switch on the grounds can operate as the first or last image below. I have two ground lugs, one for each side of the xfmr where the secondary one is isolated from the case unless the switch is flipped. Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Quoted: This is the site I referenced when I was making unun's: https://www.nonstopsystems.com/radio/frank_radio_antenna_multiband_end-fed.htm You don't have to connect them together, if you don't you have to use a CP - which to me isn't a problem as I didn't want radiating feedline. My dual tapped unun with the switch on the grounds can operate as the first or last image below. I have two ground lugs, one for each side of the xfmr where the secondary one is isolated from the case unless the switch is flipped. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/68732/BE580DF3-A06A-4F34-A337-3182C24FB545_jpe-1527143.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/68732/928597AC-1B92-43B8-83C9-1985B33BF540_jpe-1527144.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/68732/7FD6C686-499E-4425-9CDB-E049A5D35644_jpe-1527146.JPG View Quote Thanks! I’m going to go with the bottom image for starters. Edit: Actually I’m going with a combo of images 2 and 3. Going to have the choke .05 wavelength away from the transformer, and a .05 wire on the ground lug & see how that works. |
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How did you pick the value of the capacitor?
what voltage rating does the capacitor have? how did you pick the voltage? Where did you order or buy the capacitor? |
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