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Posted: 5/15/2021 5:08:37 PM EDT
Like almost 10 years I think.  Merc I/O, Chevy v6 block.

I need to get it going.  Suspect I need to fog the cylinders, change motor oil, change lower unit lube, new plugs, new battery, gas was drained as low as I could get it, hopefully fresh gas will dilute anything left.

Anything else?

Attachment Attached File


Last time I used it the bilge was filling with water.  Never did figure out where it was coming from.  I don't know if it's a freeze plug, head gasket (oil is not emulsified), bad transom seals, or a bad rivet in the hull, or a hull puncture.
Link Posted: 5/15/2021 5:11:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Might as well take it to a mechanic and have him tune it up and get it going.  Unless the carb was run dry last time it was used.  Still, it will save alot of frustration.  Last thing you want is to be stranded on the water.
Link Posted: 5/15/2021 5:15:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Perhaps.  The mechanics around here suck though.  No appointments.  Take boat in and drop it off. When they get to it, they get to it.  This time of year it would probably be July before they can look at it.
Link Posted: 5/15/2021 5:36:38 PM EDT
[#3]
Change the rubber boot out between the engine and outdrive unit.
Link Posted: 5/15/2021 5:56:04 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LongEZ85:
Change the rubber boot out between the engine and outdrive unit.
View Quote

The bellows and possibly the u joint in there
Link Posted: 5/15/2021 6:50:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: johnh57] [#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LongEZ85:
Change the rubber boot out between the engine and outdrive unit.
View Quote


Yeah, I was thinking about ordering a transom kit for it to replace all the bellows / rubber.  Boat is a '95 if I recall.  Merc. alpha one lower unit, not that many hours on it (no hour meter so I don't know how many).  I've pulled the lower unit before, but I have never pulled the transom mount itself.



Hoping, but not expecting, the bellows is the source of my leak issue.  I spend a lot of time trying to inspect all of it that I could and never found anything torn or rotten so I'm not expecting that to cure anything.
Link Posted: 5/15/2021 9:01:30 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By johnh57:


Yeah, I was thinking about ordering a transom kit for it to replace all the bellows / rubber.  Boat is a '95 if I recall.  Merc. alpha one lower unit, not that many hours on it (no hour meter so I don't know how many).  I've pulled the lower unit before, but I have never pulled the transom mount itself.



Hoping, but not expecting, the bellows is the source of my leak issue.  I spend a lot of time trying to inspect all of it that I could and never found anything torn or rotten so I'm not expecting that to cure anything.
View Quote

25 year old rubber, yeah it's bad.
Link Posted: 5/15/2021 9:36:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KB7DX] [#7]
Link Posted: 5/15/2021 9:57:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LongEZ85:
Change the rubber boot out between the engine and outdrive unit.
View Quote


That's probably not the issue. Probably between the engine and transom
Link Posted: 5/15/2021 10:00:49 PM EDT
[#9]
Remember in put it in gear to pull the outdrive off.

40 years ago I repaired many outdrives where the owner used great force to remove the outdrive.

They were amazed to see when I put it in gear and easily removed it.

By great force I even saw the boat tied down and the drive pulled on by a chain fall hooked to a tree.
Link Posted: 5/15/2021 10:12:32 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KB7DX:
Too late for fogging it. That's supposed to be done before you lay one up.

Remove drive, inspect u-joints and gimbal bearing. Replace as needed.

Re-build carb. Change water pump impeller, gear lube (clean out lube monitor bottle), engine oil and filter, water separating

fuel filter and most likely the fuel pump.

Inspect/replace spark plugs, distributor cap and rotor.

chances are good you will need to replace all the rubber bits between the outdrive and transom.

We call this a re-rubber and change out all the bellows, lower shift cable, water hose, oil hose and trim senders/limit switch.

Get rid of all stale gas even if you have to remove the sending unit from the tank and suck it out with a hose.

You will find other little things that will need attention but what I posted is the major stuff.

ETA - You shouldn't have to remove the transom assembly from the boat. Just the drive and "bell housing" to re-rubber it.
View Quote



Thank you
Link Posted: 5/16/2021 12:40:05 AM EDT
[#11]
Keep us posted on how it turns. Curious.
Link Posted: 5/16/2021 5:11:14 PM EDT
[#12]
I'm deviating a bit from advice given.  Primarily because the first order of business is finding out where the cold water leak is coming from.  If its coming from the engine itself then I think we end up yanking the engine to figure out what the problem is.

So, today's project.  Verify gas tank is bone dry.  Checked and verified, pulled sending unit no sign of any liquids in the tank.

Hooked up all water hoses (all disconnected last time it was winterized.) Closed the drain ports on the bottom of the block.

Pulled all spark plugs, fogged cylinders with stabil fogger, turned engine by hand a few turns, fogged cyl again.  Cleaned all spark plugs and reinstalled. They will be replaced with new ones before we go a boating.  Like I said, right now I just want to see if it fires and if I can find the leak. No rust or any crud on plugs.

Got some 91 octane ethanol free fuel for it when I'm ready to hit the starter.

Need to figure out which carb this thing has so I can get the right carb kit for it.  It will get rebuilt before it hits the water.

Once I get the leak sorted out, then I'll get bellows, carb kit, plugs, cap, rotor, and the impeller ordered.

Next I think I'll hook the hose up to the lower unit and see if I can find a leak.  If not, then I'll see if it will start and look for the leak again.


Talking with my friend who was with me when we discovered there was a leak.  He remembers the bilge was filling with water even with the engine off (it wasn't a loose or missing transom plug.)  It was a significant leak, the bilge pump could barely keep up with it.  A few days later we hooked up the ear muffs and had some water coming from somewhere but we couldn't see where.  Hopefully I can stick my camera back there and get a video of it.
Link Posted: 5/16/2021 7:03:37 PM EDT
[#13]
Fired right up. Took a couple shots of starter fluid, but fired with no problem.  Let it idle for 30 minutes or so.  Sounded good, ran smooth.  Little buzz coming from the power steering pump.  No sign of any leaks (well, other than the 2 drain plugs that I forgot about.)

Have to think about what to do next to find the leaks.  Closest body of water is about an hour from here.
Link Posted: 5/16/2021 9:48:17 PM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 5/16/2021 10:28:59 PM EDT
[#15]
Thank you, gives me a few places to get started.  Getting my hopes up its not an engine issue.
Link Posted: 5/16/2021 10:55:41 PM EDT
[#16]
I was getting a log of water in my bilge and it turned out to be the exhaust. The flapper valve  had disintegrated, leaving a gap where water could leak out..  I replaced the flapper and both rubber couplers and no more leaks.  This was on a Mercruiser Alpha One I/O.
Link Posted: 5/16/2021 11:08:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: johnh57] [#17]
I'm thinking this is where I need to start looking.  I hope it's not the exhaust y pipe. That looks painful.
Link Posted: 5/16/2021 11:29:09 PM EDT
[#18]
change the impeller/water pump and t-stat, change all of the fuel lines and filters, make sure the bilge pump and blowers work.
Link Posted: 5/17/2021 9:10:51 AM EDT
[#19]
trade it in.  abandon shitp
Link Posted: 5/17/2021 9:21:55 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LongEZ85:
Change the rubber boot out between the engine and outdrive unit.
View Quote



Oar pull the motor and change out the exhaust bellows.

I had the engine coupler replaced, and the marina didn't do the bellows.

Had to take it to another marina to fix it.
Link Posted: 5/17/2021 9:00:59 PM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 5/17/2021 11:12:14 PM EDT
[#22]
Exhaust and shift cable bellows look relatively easy lots of you tube vids on replacing them.  The drive bellows looks more involved.  Can it be done without pulling the gimbal itself?  That's not a show stopper, I just haven't been down that road before.

Is it necessary to replace the gimbal bearing or is it 'as long as it's out, lets put in a new one?

I'm going to try and get some pictures under there if I get a chance.  From what I can see everything looks clean and no signs of deterioration.

I have not tried the put water in the hull test.  

I appreciate the help and insight.

Link Posted: 5/17/2021 11:40:37 PM EDT
[#23]
My boat has been sitting some 6 years now and no idea how long it sat before I bought it.

Fortunately it's a rowboat so I don't think I have much work ahead of me.


LOL

Good luck with yours.
Link Posted: 5/18/2021 12:39:16 PM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 5/18/2021 1:19:51 PM EDT
[#25]
Slap a for sale sign on it and walk away.
Link Posted: 5/18/2021 2:13:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wisbiker67:
Slap a for sale sign on it and walk away.
View Quote



It'll be fine.

Be nice if it turned into hewes craft jet boat,  but it'll be ok.


Boat really has very few hours on it. It's been stored indoors, no tough operating history.

With the issues of invasive mussels and snails I wish I'd have bought an outboard instead of an I/O.
Link Posted: 5/18/2021 2:44:11 PM EDT
[#27]
I/O with a kicker motor?  Don't see that very often.  As said, lower unit rubber stuff, check the lower unit oil for water/metal before refill, new water pump. Pulling the outdrive isn't hard at all if you have a decent workspace.  All fluids  need to be drained and changed.  No need to screw around with the transom unless you suspect rot.

Not surprised it started, did the same thing with a 1996 V-8.  Carb and all fuel lines will need replacement/rebuild because of ethanol.

Check and see if your water leak isn't freeze damage to the engine's water jacket. It's possible to crack the block to the outside and pump water into the bilge.
Link Posted: 5/18/2021 5:14:22 PM EDT
[#28]
BOAT = Bring Out Another Thousand
Link Posted: 5/18/2021 10:37:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: johnh57] [#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By John-in-austin:
I/O with a kicker motor?  Don't see that very often.  As said, lower unit rubber stuff, check the lower unit oil for water/metal before refill, new water pump. Pulling the outdrive isn't hard at all if you have a decent workspace.  All fluids  need to be drained and changed.  No need to screw around with the transom unless you suspect rot.

Not surprised it started, did the same thing with a 1996 V-8.  Carb and all fuel lines will need replacement/rebuild because of ethanol.

Check and see if your water leak isn't freeze damage to the engine's water jacket. It's possible to crack the block to the outside and pump water into the bilge.
View Quote



Kicker motor combined with bow mount electric trolling makes for pretty decent trolling setup.  I don't like trolling with the big motor with trolling plates and all that stuff.  I usually lock the kicker and set it for trolling speed and use the bow mount to steer and fine tune speed- I've been able to fish by myself in fairly stiff winds that way.  The boat is an aluminum hull and fairly light.  Trying to control it in wind with rear power and steering is difficult.  I have a link bar so I can steer by steering the main, but a bow mount electric is much much better.

No apparant damage to water jacket, but I haven't broke into it enough to see if flappers have failed.  Running it on muffs didn't turn up any leaks.

Got licensing all up to date.  I'll service oils and gear lubes over next couple days.  I think I'm going to put it in water Friday and see what happens.  I have the engine shroud stripped out, so I have fairly good visual access to the transom area.  Im not planning to do any major boating.  Leave it on trailer and see if it leaks engine off.  If it doesn't then run it a bit, if that doesn't do it then maybe a couple short laps (its a pretty small lake.)
Link Posted: 5/19/2021 7:29:13 PM EDT
[#30]
Ok, now for a dumb question.

Bought impeller, but just the impeller because that's what they had.  So, I ordered a full kit with gaskets etc.

I assume I need to drain the gearbox lube before I separate the lower unit (?). ( <- this is the dumb question)

Messes up my timing a bit. I have new lube ready, but I hate to change the lube, then drain it out in a week or so when the full kit gets here.

I guess I can keep the gear lube bottles and just try to capture the stuff and pour it back in.
Link Posted: 5/19/2021 8:02:55 PM EDT
[#31]
I love boats.  Looks good, stay with it!  

My buddy told me this when I started my adventures in boating….you know what boat stands for?  “Better Obtain Another Thousand.”

He hasn’t been wrong.
Link Posted: 5/19/2021 8:15:02 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gqllc:

The bellows and possibly the u joint in there
View Quote

Outdrive water pump impeller. Gimbal bearing, ujoint, yoke, yoke seal. bellows and exhaust boot if it has one.
Link Posted: 5/20/2021 7:30:07 AM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By johnh57:



Kicker motor combined with bow mount electric trolling makes for pretty decent trolling setup.  I don't like trolling with the big motor with trolling plates and all that stuff.  I usually lock the kicker and set it for trolling speed and use the bow mount to steer and fine tune speed- I've been able to fish by myself in fairly stiff winds that way.  The boat is an aluminum hull and fairly light.  Trying to control it in wind with rear power and steering is difficult.  I have a link bar so I can steer by steering the main, but a bow mount electric is much much better.

No apparant damage to water jacket, but I haven't broke into it enough to see if flappers have failed.  Running it on muffs didn't turn up any leaks.

Got licensing all up to date.  I'll service oils and gear lubes over next couple days.  I think I'm going to put it in water Friday and see what happens.  I have the engine shroud stripped out, so I have fairly good visual access to the transom area.  Im not planning to do any major boating.  Leave it on trailer and see if it leaks engine off.  If it doesn't then run it a bit, if that doesn't do it then maybe a couple short laps (its a pretty small lake.)
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By johnh57:
Originally Posted By John-in-austin:
I/O with a kicker motor?  Don't see that very often.  As said, lower unit rubber stuff, check the lower unit oil for water/metal before refill, new water pump. Pulling the outdrive isn't hard at all if you have a decent workspace.  All fluids  need to be drained and changed.  No need to screw around with the transom unless you suspect rot.

Not surprised it started, did the same thing with a 1996 V-8.  Carb and all fuel lines will need replacement/rebuild because of ethanol.

Check and see if your water leak isn't freeze damage to the engine's water jacket. It's possible to crack the block to the outside and pump water into the bilge.



Kicker motor combined with bow mount electric trolling makes for pretty decent trolling setup.  I don't like trolling with the big motor with trolling plates and all that stuff.  I usually lock the kicker and set it for trolling speed and use the bow mount to steer and fine tune speed- I've been able to fish by myself in fairly stiff winds that way.  The boat is an aluminum hull and fairly light.  Trying to control it in wind with rear power and steering is difficult.  I have a link bar so I can steer by steering the main, but a bow mount electric is much much better.

No apparant damage to water jacket, but I haven't broke into it enough to see if flappers have failed.  Running it on muffs didn't turn up any leaks.

Got licensing all up to date.  I'll service oils and gear lubes over next couple days.  I think I'm going to put it in water Friday and see what happens.  I have the engine shroud stripped out, so I have fairly good visual access to the transom area.  Im not planning to do any major boating.  Leave it on trailer and see if it leaks engine off.  If it doesn't then run it a bit, if that doesn't do it then maybe a couple short laps (its a pretty small lake.)
When my flapper failed it wasn't getting enough water through the exhaust on muffs to notice a leak.  It only leaked when the boat was in the water.
Link Posted: 5/20/2021 9:45:07 AM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By alemonkey:
When my flapper failed it wasn't getting enough water through the exhaust on muffs to notice a leak.  It only leaked when the boat was in the water.
View Quote


Hmm, wondering if I should open it up and take a look at the flapper.

How does water get into the bilge from a flapper failure?  I can understand it causing the boat to hydrolock, but unless the rubber sleeve from the water jacket to the flapper is split I don't understand the leak path.
Link Posted: 5/20/2021 11:32:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: alemonkey] [#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By johnh57:


Hmm, wondering if I should open it up and take a look at the flapper.

How does water get into the bilge from a flapper failure?  I can understand it causing the boat to hydrolock, but unless the rubber sleeve from the water jacket to the flapper is split I don't understand the leak path
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By johnh57:
Originally Posted By alemonkey:
When my flapper failed it wasn't getting enough water through the exhaust on muffs to notice a leak.  It only leaked when the boat was in the water.


Hmm, wondering if I should open it up and take a look at the flapper.

How does water get into the bilge from a flapper failure?  I can understand it causing the boat to hydrolock, but unless the rubber sleeve from the water jacket to the flapper is split I don't understand the leak path
I don't know if they're all like this, but with mine (4 cyl 3.0 Merc) there are actually holes in the cast iron pipe that the flapper fits into, and they're sealed with rubber grommets and the rubber sleeve then fits over that.  When the grommets disintegrated it opened up enough of a gap that water could leak out.  You can see them towards the top of the exhaust pipe (4) in the pic here:



I'm guessing it's more of a PITA on a V engine with an actual Y-pipe, but on my little I-4 it was really easy to take apart and inspect.  Like 10 minutes to tear it all apart.
Link Posted: 5/20/2021 11:39:37 AM EDT
[#36]
Ok, that makes sense, I might be able to get in there and see how this one is put together.  I have the seloc manual for it also.  Thank you.

Drained lower unit last night and let it drain overnight. Gads thats some foul smelling stuff.  No water or metal flakes.
Link Posted: 5/20/2021 1:27:18 PM EDT
[#37]
Make sure your blower motor is working to vent the engine compartment. You should be lifting the engine cover before starting to avoid the embarrassment of being blown up. Old connections corrode.
Link Posted: 5/20/2021 1:51:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: johnh57] [#38]
Attachment Attached File


Open enough?


I have water dripping onto drive shaft.  Thinking it must be cold water line through transom.  Not sure why that leaks with engine off.  Maybe close enough to hull water line it doesn't need the impeller pressure to leak if hull is in water.  It doesn't seem to leak with engine off but hose to muffs on. It does drip onto spinning shaft with motor running.
Link Posted: 5/20/2021 9:38:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KB7DX] [#39]
Link Posted: 5/20/2021 10:14:35 PM EDT
[#40]
I did the lube on the lower today, as you described.  I assume when I swap out the impeller I get to drain it again?
Link Posted: 5/21/2021 9:48:29 AM EDT
[#41]
Link Posted: 5/21/2021 11:15:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: johnh57] [#42]
Thanks, still not sure im fully grasping all the fluid paths in these things!

I think my leak is the water line through the transom.  I haven't figured out yet if its a bad seal between the engine water supply hose and the fitting tube or if its the actual fitting tube that is mounted to the transom that is the problem.  Today's project is to try and remove the water line from the transom to the engine and see if I can find anything out of place.

Eta: ordered new transom to power steering cooler hose today.  Hopefully the right one, the schematics and part numbers I could find didn't seem to match up.  Local merc. dealer studied the parts manual and found a hose that seems to match.  3/4" i.d. hose at one end x 1-1/4" I'd at the other end.
Link Posted: 6/13/2021 2:10:34 PM EDT
[#43]
Put in the impeller kit and changed a suspect hose from the power steering cooling unit to the transom pass through fitting.  Fired it and let it run for a bit, no sign of any leakage.  Maybe time to put it the water and give it a test run.
Link Posted: 6/15/2021 4:27:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: johnh57] [#44]
Well, darn it.

Put the boat In the water today.  Water is pouring into the bilge.

Outdrive full up, engine off, water is coming in around the drive shaft.  From the engine side, not from the transom.

Ran the motor a few minutes, no change, maybe more flow.  No emulsion of motor oil.  I drained water out of the block and there is no oil in the water I could see.

Power steering pump on the motor was low so I filled the reservoir a couple weeks ago. Observed lots of red oil floating on the bilgewater and the power steering reservoir is nearly empty.  The hydraulic fluid in the tilt / trim pump is clean, no water I can see.

ETE. Maybe not.  I stuck my camera down there and shot a video.  Looking at video it looks like a hull leak spraying onto the driveshaft where it comes out of the bell housing.
Link Posted: 6/15/2021 9:25:57 PM EDT
[#45]
Link Posted: 6/16/2021 12:14:15 AM EDT
[#46]
Link Posted: 6/16/2021 11:17:34 AM EDT
[#47]
Found it.  It's a hole in the y- manifold.  :(


Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 6/16/2021 1:23:06 PM EDT
[#48]
Link Posted: 6/16/2021 2:29:22 PM EDT
[#49]
I'm trying to sit on my hands and think through this!  I'm about one bad idea away from pulling the outdrive and the rubbers between y-pipe and exhaust manifold, lol.

I dont have enough overhead height anywhere to lift engine out.  But I do have a friend with a hoist and a high ceiling.  I think I can get it ready to lift and then go pull it at his shop.
Link Posted: 6/16/2021 5:53:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KB7DX] [#50]
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