This is something I've tried in the past and have always wanted to master, but I have never had any success.  From my failed attempts, it seems to be that my main obstacle is material selection.  I have arrived at this conclusion because I've tested a variety of woods for both spindles and fire boards using an electric drill to eliminate the variables associated with fatigue and technique, but I still haven't been able to produce a viable ember.

I honestly couldn't tell you all of the types of wood that I've tried, but I know I have done some research and everything I've found recommends using things like yucca, mulefat and other plants that don't occur within several thousand miles of where I live.  I have been unable to find anything that points to good materials for use in the eastern woodlands, so if anyone has a guide they can point me to or personal experience to share, I'm all ears.

Thanks!

Obviously there are a thousand ways and opinions to do it, but my success came from dried/ dead spruce tree, and a dead cedar tree.

My best tinder bundles include processed birch bark, processed cedar bark, dried grass, and old mans beard.

I really think that any softer dead/ dry wood will work.  It needs to be very dry no moisture.  In my AO its almost impossible to go out and complete a successful bow drill fire without having a way to pre dry the materials.  It might work in the driest of dry season but my AO is naturally damp most of the year.

I use the same wood for the spindle and base board.

Using a premade spindle makes it much easier.  Be it a custom bone bearing, or maybe an ESEE firesteel or similar reproduction.  A shell would work well to.

Sharpen the bearing side of the spindle to a pencil type point.  Your friction side should be more rounded, with just enough of a tip to allow it to burn in.

Think most friction on the friction side, least on the bearing side.

Your notch isn't as critical as some say, again it comes down to the dryness of the wood and no friction on the bearing side, but something like a 1/4~1/3 size pie cut out almost reaching the center of the burn hole, but leaving enough of the center so the spindle stays put and doesn't jump out.

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These are the steps I use:

-Build the set.

-Have tinder bundle ready, and a way to collect the dust & ember.

-Burn in.  BLACK dust is key, that means you have a good dry set.  Keep your dust from burn in and pile it onto what your using for an ember catch.

-Notch the board.

-Start slow and steady start filling your notch with dust.

-Keep going slow and steady don't try to kill yourself yet.

-Smoke will start to form, your notch should be full of black dust.

-Once the smoke starts getting thicker, maybe getting in your face that's when you go to town.

-Push a little harder, go a little faster, it should start to smoke more.  If you have a good bearing block then it should push all the friction into the base board.  If not it will start to bind in the bearing block using up the friction you want to force down.

-Now start to slowly let off pressure but keep your speed up, this will help create more heat lighting your fine black dust into an ember.

-Now stop.  Don't move fast.  The ember will last for some time in the dust.  slowly remove your set and it should now smoke on your own.

-Transfer the ember into your tinder bundle and blow into flame.

-The rest of your fire making materials should be all ready to go.

-Successful friction fire.

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If your just starting friction fire, and have not started a fire from an ember then you should practice that first.  Nothing more disappointing than getting your first friction ember and not being able to blow it into flame...  A good way to practice fire starting with embers is using char cloth and a simple ferro rod.  Strike a small bit of char cloth and you get an instant ember.  Once you have mastered your tinder bundle and can blow those into flame then it is time to start trying a friction fire.

On the flip side if you are still having trouble making fire from an ember using the method above then its time to practice using a match, or ferro rod with man made tinder.  Limit yourself to 4 or 5 strikes.  If you can't get a fire going with 5 well placed ferro rod strikes then your tinder is the issue.  Sure you can "dry" marginal tinder by striking the hell out of it, but those techneques come after mastering man made starting material.

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Winter or rainy season friction fire forget it, unless you have a way to dry the set out, or are a fire expert.  

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Good luck.  Any questions and I can try to help.  I still have my first friction fire set in my man cave.  I used a small glass jar for my bearing block.

I really like Joe Robinet for outdoor videos.  Funny, entertaining, and interesting. Not just someone barking about this is how it has to be done...







I also like MCQBushcraft.  Almost like watching a full production instruction/ tutorial.

I started a fire with a bow and drill one time. Bridgeport Mountain Warfare Center. Since then I have not been without fire starting materials. It sucked.

Bow and drills are neat and do work but they take a lot of skill and practice along with dry materials....things that likely are in short supply in a survival situation. I do not believe someone who has never done it before would be able to do it in a real life or death survival situation.

Good reason to always carry several means of fire starting materials on your person.

Buy this:


Buy some 100% cotton balls, melt some Vaseline and soak them in it.  Stuff them into the preform about 3/4 of the way up.  Bend a piece of baling wire so there is a 90 degree angle on the end and work it down the side so you can dig them out with it.

Buy one of these:


Fire in 20 seconds.
Life is good.

Hmm... I do have access to some dead cedar...

Looking around, that's about one of the few species I've found that is endemic to where I live.

Thanks for the tips.  I'm going to give this a renewed shot.

Before you give it a-go, bring it inside and let your set spend sometime next to a heater register or the woodstove!  Once you practice and get good with optimal materials, marginal materials become that much easier.

put your wood in oven at 250 degrees for about 2 hours , that will make sure it si dry and ready to use, damp wood  will cause you to fail.  if you put the wood against your face and it fees cool it may be dampness and that will kill your ember.

I've not had any luck with any evergreen tree, including kiln dried red cedar.

I believe they have too much resin. I've heard of other's using them but they've never worked for me. Although red cedar bark is one of my favorite tinders.

I've had the best luck with weeping willow, followed by black willow. Cotton wood works, too. As mentioned it has to be very dry. The action of drilling will dry out the important parts if the wood is not perfect. It just takes a few extra minutes of drilling.

Some things I've learned from experience:

Stance is important. If you're right handed, right knee goes on the ground, left foot steps on fire board, left arm wraps around left knee which steadies the bearing block in left hand and allows you to apply force precisely.

Bow should be as long as you can comfortably move your right hand, about three feet. Every stop is time things  are cooling down. It should be dead wood because green will take a set and lose grip.

Go for 2-3 wraps around the drill. You have to mess with the amount of slack you leave in the rope to get the tension right, with a given number of wraps. Flats on the shank of your spindle help with traction.

Grab the bow where the rope is attached so you can increase the tension on the rope with your fingers if necessary, while drilling.

The tinder bundle goes on a sheet of bark or similar and is placed under the fireboard with your foot on top. There's no need to transfer the coal. Once it's smoking on its own, you tap the board and allow the coal to fall into the bundle.

You might find this inspiring. Making a hand drill fire with your hands is pretty damn impressive. Fire stuff starts about 15:00

That starts a nice fire.

If OP had asked for pointers on making a stick bow, would you suggest him get a Mathews compound?

Things like that are a great way to remove one aspect of frustration while you learn the rest of the pieces to the puzzle.

"Training wheels", kind of.

while I have much respect for the guys who do this the old way I still scratch my head sometimes.

with things like simple bic lighters, strike anywhere matches, flints like the above and push come to shove a flint and steel why would one not just have a plethera of these on hand?

I lived on some acreage for a few years and I had no trash service so burning and composting was the name of the game. at first I was using a small amount of gas to start the fires with a match tossed in. that was until I launched a few bags of trash lol. bag sealed just enough to build pressure and went a good 6 feet into the air leaving me a nice mess to clean up. so over the years I experimented with ways of starting the fire and what worked best was good ol' lint. takes very little to get it going even used flint and steel to test it and easy as pie. I then was rotating my peanut butter and found one that must have missed its rotation. was expired so I remember reading on here about the peanut butter and lint trick so I gave it a try and wow does that stuff burn good and quite awhile even. needless to say I have bagged up dryer lint in many places throughout my kits some with a few strike anywhere matches, some with a knife and flint, and most with a bic lighter.

so while i'm not knocking your endeavor and hey an extra skill is never a bad thing to learn. but i'd suggest putting together some other forms of fire starting all over.

The chance of needing to make a bow or hand drill fire is statistically non-existent.

It's much more like growing a garden, or forging your own knife, or building a flintlock long rifle from as scratch as possible.

Put in the time and try it for yourself. I will guarantee when you get your first flame from a bow drill you will understand the draw.

As a scout leader, I started the boys on the ferro rods and Vaseline cotton balls. They thought that was great and appreciated the reliability and ease with which it brings a fire even under bad conditions.

Then I made them real flint and steel kits. The look of satisfaction on each boy's face when he was successful with bringing flame was worth ten times the effort I put into the kits.

Then came the bow drill fire. The "ultimate" challenge (close enough). They had already learned the ins and outs of proper fire lay for different tasks, proper preparation of tinder, kindling, gathering of appropriate sized wood, alternative methods of flame production.

None of that was a gratifying as making fire with what they could find in the woods, plus a string. I allowed that cheat. Didn't have ready access to enough dogbane or nettle for cordage that would stand up. Couldn't kill a groundhog for the leather thongs, either.

Even the other dads who'd never done such stuff were giggling like little kids when they were successful.

I'll add to Ridgerunner's reply.  Yes, it's more academic when it coms to primitive fire making methods and there are far easier, economic, faster, and cheaper ways to start a fire these days.  The educational value of primitive fire making involves the full comprehension of physics, complete understanding of natural materials, and reinforcing the basics of appropriate tinder...and for me personally, it really reinforces the need to have an immediate ignition source AND tinder handy when you REALLY need a fire going in minutes, not 30 minutes.

The more you practice it, the more aware you become of the natural materials around you and the importance of detailed preparation before using your ignition source.  Even when you get consistently good at getting ignition or an ember, the other battle is having the right materials to go from spark/ember to fire.  This is still relevant if you have a Bic, firesteel, matches, or any other ignition source. I've seen guys struggle to get a fire going with a Bic and even matches as soon as you make the conditions less favorable and put them under the clock.  Patience and detailed preparation are extremely difficult when cold, wet and under the "clock".  Primitive fire making will definitely test your patience, but pays off when you really need a fire going while your wet, cold and approaching hypothermic conditions even if you're using a more modern means of ignition and tinder.

ROCK6

Ridgerunner,

Thank you for your tips.  As soon as I have the time, I'm going to give this a serious go again.  I've done a bit more research, and I found another recommended wood - tulip poplar.  Fortunately, I have one behind the house; unfortunately, all of its branches are well out of reach, and since it's among other trees it might be a little tricky to tell which particular tree an given fallen branch came from.

As far as the "why?"  Why not?

I have a number of electronic gadgets that I have built solely for my own edification.  I could have gone to a dollar store and bought a clock or a radio, but where's the fun in that?  Why do people build guns when you can just buy one?  Why do people like to modify or tune their cars?

We used some boyscout kits when I was younger, and those were pretty solid once you get the motion down. I was able to get one started in NC years ago, but haven't really tried since.

Lowes/Home depot does carry kiln dried poplar in rounds and lumber if you wanted to get started quick.

I'm no carpenter so I have no idea if there is any coatings or treatment to store bought lumber. Somebody else might chime in if they know.

I've never tried fire with storebought wood.

There is a video of a guy making a bow drill fire with stuff he got from IKEA.

I forgot to mention the cord should be cotton or leather or similar. Nylon/poly pro/para cord tend to be more slippery. Not that they can't work, bit it's nice to stack the deck in your favor.  A stout leather thong that is a little damp is pretty grippy.

I would send you a kit but I purged all that stuff from the basement when we exited the scouts. There was another arfcommer trying flint and steel and I sent him one of the scout kits I had left over a few years ago. He did a thread on it but I can't remember his screen name. Fellow in TN, iirc.

Primitive fire turns men into 12 year old boys. Same with making deadfall triggers, assorted camp tools, pop can stoves and all the other cool stuff there is to be made.

In regards to using cotton balls I use polysporin or neosporin instead of Vaseline.  This way I also have a way to treat small cuts and scrapes.  I can get twenty balls in one standard pill bottle.  Just one spark will light your balls on fire.  I timed one and can get two minutes of flame.

If people are preparing materials at home, buying from lowes, and kiln drying, Whats the point?   Carry a lighter.  Hell, carry 2.

If youre in VA, your selection of wood is probably similar to mine and since we dont have cottonwood...   Willow, sycamore, Poplar, buckeye, staghorn, other soft downed woods, cedar of course if you can find it.

Edit, cause that might sound a little bitchy.  

The draw to it really is purely cerebral.   Once you get it with a kit or prepped materials, you'll want to do it in the wild.   I've spent HOURS in a day and still threw in the towel.  every once in a while, I'll go out and try it again, just to tell myself I can, but in reality, I have 2 lighters and 2 ferro rods on me most of the time.  Enjoy the attempts and the success.

Just a way to get something in your hand, now. Not really a field test. More of a lab experiment.

I've read sycamore and buckeye worked. Sycamore would just burnish for me. Too hard. Perhaps different parts of the tree. Never tried buckeye.

I have used staghorn sumac with success. Always used the same material for fireboard and spindle, though some people say different is better.

Since two in this thread have mentioned cedar, I will give it a go again. Always up for a challenge.

Save your old cotton cleaning patches.  Stuff them into a small tin (tobacco can size) and punch a hole in the top.  Toss it in the fire.  When it stops emitting gases, it should be cooked.  You now have char cloth.

another hint, dryer lint, paraffin, yard sale plastic ice cube trays, fill the cube slots with lint,  form a wick with the lint, cover with melted wax. Makes very nice, hot firestarters.

Came here to post this. You can store your char cloth in the same tin (Altoids tin works also). Just wipe the soot off.

In my experience Cedar has to be really really dry for it to work.  Even the slightest bit of moisture will throw you off, because it will still create almost black dust but wont light, in my experience anyways.

I think spruce and or pine works better if moisture is a question...  Maybe because of the resin?

Never tried any hard woods, not sure I would bother.

I was thinking the same thing.  I have the home-made fire steels with a pill fob JB-welded as a handle and water proof storage for tinder.  I may very well do this for this smaller amount (I can barely squeeze two cotton balls in the tube).  Vaseline is the main ingredient, but having the antibiotic properties is an added bonus...expensive except for small batches.  Very good idea.

ROCK6

I know this is primarily a bow fire drill thread but

No one has mentioned fat wood and a ferro rod

Ponderosa pine here in NM works for me

Ferro rod is my go to when playing in the woods.

Zippo, Bic, UCO storm matches, or strike anywhere matches are my go to when fire is necessary.

I respect and applaud your efforts and get it entirely. I remember my scout years and intended to start my boys this year (wanted to wait and get them in together) funny you mention some of the other things. my boys have already requested we build a bp cannon (small scale) i'll cheat some as I have a hobby lathe but it will be simple and haven't decided between a lock or just a plain fuse.

making fire is at the top of the list of skills you really should have mastered before you head out into the wilderness.   That said,  I pretty much depend on matches to start fires.   :)

Something I really need to work on, tried it last year and never did get that ember, plenty of smoke.